iraq

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Happy pines (there's a pun hidden here) for the day when he could get a woody.

CAD you are a cad. Bush is a big fat liar. He lied about why we needed to attack Iraq. It's an obvious lie because we didn't need to attack Iraq. There was no threat. No threat. No threat. They weren't even a threat when we attacked them. That's when most threats are their most dangerous, no? Bush lied. He lied to congress and they believed him and voted to give him the go. He lied, Bush is a liar. The words that come out of his mouth had nothing to do with the truth. They fabricated evidence, copied garbage off the web made up stories about African uranium. It was a big fat lie. Bush conned the American people into a war they didn't want or need. He deceived the nation and in doing so caused a war. Lots of people are dead because of his lie. Lots of American soldiers who weren't told the truth. It's horrible, it's evil, but of course to you it's just fine. Why not, you don't like the implications. You were a sucker. You swallowed the bait. You bought in hook line and sinker. You got played for a chump. I would be hot of this thread too.

What you want to do is pretend that there were lots of reasons to go to war in Iraq, that the stated reasons were just a small part of a bigger truth. The war was sold on that small part, not the bigger package. That?s the point. The real reasons for the war had to be concealed because the American people would have said no. The Republicans don't trust the American people. They are too stupid to even vote for Bush for President, he lost you remember, how could they possibly be trusted to go to war against Iraq for nuanced complexities like a New American Century. Nope stoke their fear and feed them lies; it's not really immoral because God is on our side and we can do no wrong.

I think you have the tinfoil on shiney side down

I see you looked up "cad" on dictionary.com (thanks Bleep )

Yeah, Ok, I got played

, I'm the chump

- yup just keep feeding me the lies

BTW - incase you've spent the last 2 years making/adjusting your tinfoil hat - Bush won the election

CkG

 

[Moonbeam]

I looked up cad on dictionary.com. Hehe, RIIIIIIGHT! Maybe when I was ten. I looked up LIAR too. I thought you were out of here.

 

[UltraQuiet]

I have performed the MOONBEAM DUCK TEST and have come to the conclusion that this is the fault of George Bush.

 

[Moonbeam]

Ultra Quiet, the Silent Quack, does the Duck Test. Great!

 

[Alistar7]

yes, now that we all know the mobile biological weapons lab Powell calimed Iraq had unbeknownst to the UN (that were capable of producing tons of Anthrax and Botulism everymonth) were total fbrication, his credibility is shot, just like his claim of a terrorist camp associated with Al-Qaida being used to teach WMD use, all we found after lighting that place up was some deal al-qaida, some recipes for WMD's and dispersion manuals, how much more off the mark could they have been? This is why I would never believe him again.

 

[Moonbeam]

Alistar, are you talking about the terrorist camp in the no fly zone in Kurdish territory uncontrolled by Saddam, but technically in Iraq and or the Crane pest control mosquito research vehicle? I wonder where the tons and tons of nuclear weapons and other WMD immediate threat stuff is. You know, the stuff Bush stampeded the congress into believing were reasons to go to war. Any American can make WMD in her Garage. You have to distinguish between the terror in your imagination and the reality in Iraq. They were no threat to us. We proved that by the ease with which we took them down. May our ferocious opponents always prove so easy. The people of North Korea are longing for freedom. When are we going, or are they a real threat, one requiring, well you know, finesse. Boo! Hope you didn't wet your pants.

 

[JellyBaby]

Alistar7, I still find it hard to believe Powell is in the same league as Bush, Rummie, Asscroft and the like. He seems like a man of honor and integrity. Perhaps he was duped (we all have to go by second hand information much of the time, sometimes that information is wrong or misleading)...

 

[Moonbeam]

I think he sold out, Jelly, but then I never had too much trust in him because of Mai Li.

 

[JellyBaby]

Could be. They say anyone from the military ranked above Colonel is a politician first and foremost (his rank was General during Vietnam, no?)

Politicians tend to care about themselves first, their party second. To disagree with Bush et al, to run against the grain of that administration could very well have ended his career and blackmarked his place in history. Being a politician first-and-foremost, with the ego that almost always accompanies the role, then it's conceivable he did do the Master's bidding in this instance but we really won't know until we buy his book Memoirs of the Just General, published by Balentine Books, available 2009 at bookstores near you or anywhere paperbacks are sold...

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: Zrom999

Bush's credibility is dead.

I think his chances of re-election are dead.

Oh man, you're just kidding yourself. I don't care what side of the war debate you're on, you've got to see that he's made well over 1/2 of America fanatic supporters of everything he does. I'm not a fanatic supporter, but save a better Republican candidate, he'll be getting my vote.

 

[JellyBaby]

I'm not a fanatic supporter, but save a better Republican candidate, he'll be getting my vote.

You have no choice. Bush will be nominated and it's either him or nothing.

(Psst, third-parties don't exist either, so don't even waste your time there.)

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think he sold out, Jelly, but then I never had too much trust in him because of Mai Li.

Was he the battalion commander of the Capt. that was charged in the killing of all those civilians?

 

[burnedout]

Could be. They say anyone from the military ranked above Colonel is a politician first and foremost (his rank was General during Vietnam, no?)

I believe, although I could be wrong, Sec. Colin Powell held the rank of Major while serving in Vietnam.

additional, interesting link about "LT Powell's" first assignment in the U.S. Army

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think he sold out, Jelly, but then I never had too much trust in him because of Mai Li.

Was he the battalion commander of the Capt. that was charged in the killing of all those civilians?

No! He was an operations officer, not a commander, during his time in Vietnam. LTC Frank Barker Jr. was Bn. Cdr. of 1/20 IN at the time of the massacre.

He was faulted in some corners for not using his position as custodian of the operational journals of the Americal Division in March 1968 in Vietnam to report the massacre at My Lai, where American troops were accused of killing 500 unarmed Vietnamese civilians in March 1968. The massacre was eventually brought to light.
Powell points out he was not with the division at the time of the massacre and cooperated with the inspector general?s staff investigator, who asked him to produce the journal for the date of the massacre.

Link - ABC News

What prompted an outcry from critics years later was the fact that when a soldier of the unit wrote a letter to General Abrams about the matter, 'Major Powell' replyed to the soldier that "relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." Major Powell did not know exactly what was going on because he was at the division headshed.

Much info about My Lai and the parties involved - educational, not a fringe website

edited for correct battalion commander of 1-20 IN.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think he sold out, Jelly, but then I never had too much trust in him because of Mai Li.

Could you possibly be any more disingenuous? You were singing Powell's praises, about how level headed he was, how smart, how much of a dove he is, how he was the only ne in this admin. you trusted, etc., etc. Then as soon as he started saying things about Iraq you didn't like suddenly he was none of those things and you were doing a Harry Bellafonte imitation. Sickening.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I think he sold out, Jelly, but then I never had too much trust in him because of Mai Li.

Could you possibly be any more disingenuous? You were singing Powell's praises, about how level headed he was, how smart, how much of a dove he is, how he was the only ne in this admin. you trusted, etc., etc. Then as soon as he started saying things about Iraq you didn't like suddenly he was none of those things and you were doing a Harry Bellafonte imitation. Sickening.

I think Powell is one of the most honorable and capable men in the Bush administration. I also think he's a good soldier who understands that his job sometimes requires him to follow orders he disagrees with. I speculate that Powell was put in a position of either out-the-door or support the war, and he decided he could still do more good on the inside than on the outside. Perhaps we'll learn the whole story in 20 years when he does an autobiography.

 

[bolinger]

All I know is that we better plant some WMD in Iraq before the Dems get their 2004 campaign going. Bush is going to need some ammo going into the new election year with the economy in shambles and his tax cut in eternal limbo. I'm not saying the economy is Bush's fault, but the Dems will be more than happy to use it against Bush (especially since Joe Six Pack will gobble it right up).

 

[tinomen]

hey bolinger,
bush might be able to do it even without "weapons of mass destruction".
what he needs to do is keep the american mind on the perceived threat of terrorism,
and not on the fact that he/she is out of work.
he needs to raise the color-coded (so it's easy to understand mind you) threat levels
every now and then.....to keep people who don't know a lot about the state of world
affairs in a perpetual state of fear. they'll keep flying the flag, and voila! you got yourself
a re-election. (ok, not a true *re*-election because there was some cheating going on
in 2000.....)
[please....let's get rid of these spin doctors next year.....]

 

[Moonbeam]

Ultra Quiet:

Could you possibly be any more disingenuous? You were singing Powell's praises, about how level headed he was, how smart, how much of a dove he is, how he was the only ne in this admin. you trusted, etc., etc. Then as soon as he started saying things about Iraq you didn't like suddenly he was none of those things and you were doing a Harry Bellafonte imitation. Sickening.
-------------------

I did once have more hope for Powell. As far as I am concerned though now, I see him as a total sell out. However I don't recall ever holding him in the adulatory glow you depict in your post. I think, could be wrong, but I think you got me confused with somebody else. Have you a link. One would be hard to find, if not, I know. It would take a lot of searching. But anyway, I wish I could be reminded where I posted what you suggest. Like I say, he's a profound disappointment. He buckled and bought in to a war without UN approval. But I never really held him in high regard, for a Republican, yes, but never in high regard because of Nam. Power corrupts.

 

[LunarRay]

Burnedout,
Thanks for all those info links.
I didn't know he was operationally attached to the division. I though he was attached to.... I can't remember it now.. sorry. but, out of Saigon.