Iraq was ordered to pay Kuwait after the 1990 invasion.

[shortylickens]

They finally completed the payoff.

UN: Iraq makes final payment to Kuwait for 1990 invasion restitution - UPI.com

The United Nations said Wednesday that Iraq has made its final payment of nearly $53 billion in restitution to Kuwait for the 1990 invasion.

www.upi.com

I had actually forgotten about that. I was just a wee young lad at the time, but I do recall hearing something about paying them. In my opinion this took way took fucking long. How many people who should have been paid died or disappeared in three decades?
In my humble opinion, this was not strong enough action. On the other hand, Germany felt abused after the Great War, which ended up causing more trouble.

 

[DaaQ]

They finally completed the payoff.

UN: Iraq makes final payment to Kuwait for 1990 invasion restitution - UPI.com

The United Nations said Wednesday that Iraq has made its final payment of nearly $53 billion in restitution to Kuwait for the 1990 invasion.

www.upi.com

I had actually forgotten about that. I was just a wee young lad at the time, but I do recall hearing something about paying them. In my opinion this took way took fucking long. How many people who should have been paid died or disappeared in three decades?
In my humble opinion, this was not strong enough action. On the other hand, Germany felt abused after the Great War, which ended up causing more trouble.

Yes I remember not graduating high school on purpose, to get out of possible draft.

I was supposed to graduate in 90, moved it up to 91. Looking back in hindsight, I was an idiot. I could have flown jets or helos or drove tanks. I can pretty much operate anything ground based now. Sure would have loved to been able to fly. NOW. /facepalm.

 

[shortylickens]

I don't think you were ever in danger of being drafted. Most officers and pentagon personnel agreed that after Vietnam a draft would have been monstrously unpopular. They changed their tactic to upping benefits and recruiting more aggressively in order to keep a larger standing army and navy.
It worked.

 

[DaaQ]

I don't think you were ever in danger of being drafted. Most officers and pentagon personnel agreed that after Vietnam a draft would have been monstrously unpopular. They changed their tactic to upping benefits and recruiting more aggressively in order to keep a larger standing army and navy.
It worked.

I know this now, but at 16/17 years old had no idea, I remember the constant badgering my brother got after graduating. Then the Kuwait invasion happened and I got scared, after growing up in the Cold War era.

 

[Jaskalas]

In my humble opinion, this was not strong enough action.

We invaded / destroyed Iraq. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died.
I think "we" have done more than enough.

Their obligations should have died with Saddam. Or only have been kept if we maintained any semblance of the former power structure. Instead we already destroyed everyone responsible.

 

[shortylickens]

Well "we" did not mandate the payout. The U.N. did. And no, murdering Iraqs citizens is not paypack. Its revenge.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[Jaskalas]

Well "we" did not mandate the payout. The U.N. did. And no, murdering Iraqs citizens is not paypack. Its revenge.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

The Iraqis have suffered enough. Leave them the fuck alone.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[pauldun170]

Yes I remember not graduating high school on purpose, to get out of possible draft.

I was supposed to graduate in 90, moved it up to 91. Looking back in hindsight, I was an idiot. I could have flown jets or helos or drove tanks. I can pretty much operate anything ground based now. Sure would have loved to been able to fly. NOW. /facepalm.

Um....
Draft ended in the 70's
Iraq invaded Kuwait in August of 1990, you would have graduated in 1990 before anything even happened.
Operation desert storm was in January of1991

No one thought they were going to reinstitute the draft for Iraq

What you say makes no sense

 

[Zorba]

Um....
Draft ended in the 70's
Iraq invaded Kuwait in August of 1990, you would have graduated in 1990 before anything even happened.
Operation desert storm was in January of1991

No one thought they were going to reinstitute the draft for Iraq

What you say makes no sense

I don't know about the first Gulf war. But there was a lot of fear of a draft coming for the second Iraq war. No idea how warranted it was, but when you are holding a draft registration, of the right age, and we start pointless and endless wars you start to get nervous.

 

[pauldun170]

I don't know about the first Gulf war. But there was a lot of fear of a draft coming for the second Iraq war. No idea how warranted it was, but when you are holding a draft registration, of the right age, and we start pointless and endless wars you start to get nervous.

I know about both.
No there was not a lot of fear. Not at all. A reporter or editorial asking bout the draft in some article does not equal fear (and then having Admin officials say "No fucker. We don't need the draft, stupid). Some one dad rambling on about how he got drafted into Vietnam does not equal fear.


For both GW1 and GW2, you'd have to be a paranoid conspiracy theorist to think that the draft was coming back. No one with any sort of basic common sense had annoy notion of the draft coming back
If you were a teenager and you thought that registering for selective service put you at risk for the draft in either 1990 or 2003, that's all on you.

Edit: I can only go by my experience in my region (NY, NYC) in 1990, based on my education experience including interactions with students and teachers, adults, local news, ABC Nightly news, the newspapers I would read everyday (Newsday just about everyday, NYT weekly and whatever legit newspapers I could get my hands on) jrotc folks etc.

If your local community was filled with newsletter reading pamphlet chucking conspiracy theorist and all you talked about was the draft and jesus....then that's your local area

This doesn't change the fact that Daaq post makes zero sense.

 

[Zorba]

I know about both.
No there was not a lot of fear. Not at all. A reporter or editorial asking bout the draft in some article does not equal fear (and then having Admin officials say "No fucker. We don't need the draft, stupid). Some one dad rambling on about how he got drafted into Vietnam does not equal fear.


For both GW1 and GW2, you'd have to be a paranoid conspiracy theorist to think that the draft was coming back. No one with any sort of basic common sense had annoy notion of the draft coming back
If you were a teenager and you thought that registering for selective service put you at risk for the draft in either 1990 or 2003, that's all on you.

This doesn't change the fact that Daaq post makes zero sense.

Cool story bro. Amazing how looking about 15 years later it seems completely unfounded. Also when you weren't eligible for the selective service, I'm sure it seems like less of a concern. Not like I was staying up at night worrying about it, but it was something out there that seemed like a possibility. During this time they were also automatically extending enlistments, overworking the Guard, and trying to expand the military.

Military Draft? Official Denials Leave Skeptics (Published 2004)

Talk of reinstating military draft persists around US, driven by Internet, moves by military to shore up its forces and fears that reassurances about no need for conscription could quickly melt away if world events took turn for worse; top lawmakers, Pentagon leaders and Bush administration...

www.nytimes.com

Flurry of Calls About Draft, and a Day of Denials (Published 2006)

A wire service article that noted that the Selective Service was making plans for a “mock” draft exercise created a busy day for the agency’s media contact.

www.nytimes.com

Bush adviser: Military draft worth considering

Bush adviser: Military draft worth considering WASHINGTON - Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush's new war adviser said Friday. "I think it makes sense to...

forums.anandtech.com

Chuck Rangel will introduce draft legislation

Rangel, who appeared on Face the Nation this morning, reinforced his idea of a draft. Young people should be forced to give up a couple years of their life to serve the U.S. government. Okay, how many of you guys are fired up and ready to go?

forums.anandtech.com

Reinstitute the Draft now...

I want the draft reinstituted so as to provide firsthand experiences for those who would not normally see the situation in the Greater Middle East for what it really is. I want more people to see all of the good that we are doing over there so that they come back and spread the truth. The...

forums.anandtech.com

If there was a draft....

What would you do?

forums.anandtech.com

Draft:6-2-05 "Special Skills" Draft Considered

The Military cannot keep this pace especially in highly skilled areas. It is certainly looking like The Republican Regime will have to dip into the civilian population before Nov 2008. 6-2-2005 "Special Skills" Draft Considered Since 1987, at Congress's request, the Selective Service...

forums.anandtech.com

There was a decent amount of discussion about it back in the day, I guess the NYT and WaPo was filled with a bunch of people with no common sense. I found all of this in about 30 seconds, there is obviously a lot more.

 

[IronWing]

With the invasion of Iraq and the fall of the Bathist regime, the Iraqis should have told the Kuwaitis to go fuck themselves. I suppose the US made damn sure the Emir got his checks.

 

[pauldun170]

Cool story bro. Amazing how looking about 15 years later it seems completely unfounded. Also when you weren't eligible for the selective service, I'm sure it seems like less of a concern. Not like I was staying up at night worrying about it, but it was something out there that seemed like a possibility. During this time they were also automatically extending enlistments, overworking the Guard, and trying to expand the military.

Military Draft? Official Denials Leave Skeptics (Published 2004)

Talk of reinstating military draft persists around US, driven by Internet, moves by military to shore up its forces and fears that reassurances about no need for conscription could quickly melt away if world events took turn for worse; top lawmakers, Pentagon leaders and Bush administration...

www.nytimes.com

Flurry of Calls About Draft, and a Day of Denials (Published 2006)

A wire service article that noted that the Selective Service was making plans for a “mock” draft exercise created a busy day for the agency’s media contact.

www.nytimes.com

Bush adviser: Military draft worth considering

Bush adviser: Military draft worth considering WASHINGTON - Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush's new war adviser said Friday. "I think it makes sense to...

forums.anandtech.com

Chuck Rangel will introduce draft legislation

Rangel, who appeared on Face the Nation this morning, reinforced his idea of a draft. Young people should be forced to give up a couple years of their life to serve the U.S. government. Okay, how many of you guys are fired up and ready to go?

forums.anandtech.com

Reinstitute the Draft now...

I want the draft reinstituted so as to provide firsthand experiences for those who would not normally see the situation in the Greater Middle East for what it really is. I want more people to see all of the good that we are doing over there so that they come back and spread the truth. The...

forums.anandtech.com

If there was a draft....

What would you do?

forums.anandtech.com

Draft:6-2-05 "Special Skills" Draft Considered

The Military cannot keep this pace especially in highly skilled areas. It is certainly looking like The Republican Regime will have to dip into the civilian population before Nov 2008. 6-2-2005 "Special Skills" Draft Considered Since 1987, at Congress's request, the Selective Service...

forums.anandtech.com

There was a decent amount of discussion about it back in the day, I guess the NYT and WaPo was filled with a bunch of people with no common sense. I found all of this in about 30 seconds, there is obviously a lot more.

Instead of using keyword searches to hunt for gotcha's why don't you read every single one of those links.

 

[pauldun170]

Lets first talk about the first gulf war
There was zero threat of a draft. We spent most of 1989 and 1990 talking about downsizing the military and slashing defense spending. That s was the big discussion. Base closures. Force reduction. Cheney slash and burn

CQ Researcher - Downsizing America's Armed Forces

No one was talking about the draft. We are all wondering if military service was going to be legit career option anymore.
No one wanted to return to the days of a conscription based military because the all volunteer force was proven to be vastly superior and unfortunately too fucking huge.
Iraq gave us justification to chill out the downsizing conversation and postpone all the hard choices from the cold war drawdown.


Second gulf war....just read your links.
Individual politicans trying to issue a fuck you to Bush\Cheney with grandtstanding "draft talk".

 

[Pohemi]

Yes I remember not graduating high school on purpose, to get out of possible draft.

The draft would not have depended on graduating HS, only turning 18 afaik...I could be mistaken on that, but I got the selective service card before I graduated...

There was a decent amount of discussion about it back in the day, I guess the NYT and WaPo was filled with a bunch of people with no common sense. I found all of this in about 30 seconds, there is obviously a lot more.

I remember the discussions, because I'm around the same age (turned 18 in the 90s).

None of them were seriously considered a possibility by anyone but outliers. The discussion was had, but it was as much about pushing viewership from the media than reporting facts, and talk about reinstituting a selective-service draft was never heavily considered by the Pentagon, WH, or any other government agency besides the aforementioned outliers in Congress.

It was never discussed as a real threat. It was just brought up and then the dead horse was beaten with it repeatedly. And all of those links you found in 30 sec? They weren't really saying what you claimed...

 

[pauldun170]

The draft would not have depended on graduating HS, only turning 18 afaik.

I remember the discussions, because I'm around the same age (turned 18 in the 90s).

None of them were seriously considered a possibility by anyone but outliers. The discussion was had, but it was as much about pushing viewership from the media than reporting facts, and talk about reinstituting a selective-service draft was never heavily considered by the Pentagon, WH, or any other government agency besides the aforementioned outliers in Congress.

It was never discussed as a real threat. It was just brought up and then the dead horse was beaten with it repeatedly. And all of those links you found in 30 sec? They weren't really saying what you claimed...

Yup.
Unfortunately the only real way for those not around or not paying close attention to get that sort of context is by getting access to newspaper archives from the era or by going to actual library and pulling up stuff from the time period. They could dig through government archives.
Maybe get a LexisNexis account and party like its 1990

In hindsight
Maybe I should have focused more on getting laid than paying attention to stuff like that.

 

[dank69]

Lets first talk about the first gulf war
There was zero threat of a draft. We spent most of 1989 and 1990 talking about downsizing the military and slashing defense spending. That s was the big discussion. Base closures. Force reduction. Cheney slash and burn

CQ Researcher - Downsizing America's Armed Forces

No one was talking about the draft. We are all wondering if military service was going to be legit career option anymore.
No one wanted to return to the days of a conscription based military because the all volunteer force was proven to be vastly superior and unfortunately too fucking huge.
Iraq gave us justification to chill out the downsizing conversation and postpone all the hard choices from the cold war drawdown.


Second gulf war....just read your links.
Individual politicans trying to issue a fuck you to Bush\Cheney with grandtstanding "draft talk".

While it's true that in reality there was no chance of a draft happening, right-wing FUD was already in full swing, so especially in conservative circles at the time a LOT of people thought it was probable, not just possible. I remember my parents occasionally being fearful I would be drafted.

 

[Zorba]

The draft would not have depended on graduating HS, only turning 18 afaik...I could be mistaken on that, but I got the selective service card before I graduated...

I remember the discussions, because I'm around the same age (turned 18 in the 90s).

None of them were seriously considered a possibility by anyone but outliers. The discussion was had, but it was as much about pushing viewership from the media than reporting facts, and talk about reinstituting a selective-service draft was never heavily considered by the Pentagon, WH, or any other government agency besides the aforementioned outliers in Congress.

It was never discussed as a real threat. It was just brought up and then the dead horse was beaten with it repeatedly. And all of those links you found in 30 sec? They weren't really saying what you claimed...

They didn't say people were talking about and thinking about the draft in that time period? How many threads and news articles do we have about the draft right now? Obviously there wasn't action to start a draft, because recruitment stayed up. And of course no politician is going to claim they'd start a draft before it is actually needed. I'm sure there were similar denials prior to starting the draft for Vietnam too.

There was obviously concern at the time that a draft could come back, that is literally why there were denials and articles about it. I don't see many reporters asking congressmen right now if they plan on authorizing a draft, yet it came up again and again for years in the naughts.

 

[Zorba]

I'll concede that I said "A lot of Fear" when that is probably hyperbole. There was concern/worry that a draft could come, though. It was talked about quite a bit at the time.

 

[pauldun170]

I'll concede that I said "A lot of Fear" when that is probably hyperbole. There was concern/worry that a draft could come, though. It was talked about quite a bit at the time.

That's fair. There will always be some sort of discussion about returning to conscription.
For awhile its from those with recollection of mid 20th century US opining about a return to the old days (even though it generally turned into old people complaining about hippies and draft dodgers).
Nowadays it's the more driven by "Well Israel does it...we should too" mixed in with some politicians who introduce stuff to make a point about our endless combat operations.

 

[pauldun170]

I'd still like Daaq to explain how in the Spring of 1990 , he decided to not graduate because he had a vision of Iraq invading Kuwait months before the actual invasion and decided he wanted to graduate in the Spring of 1991 to avoid a non-existent draft.

@DaaQ , were you drinking when you posted that?

 

[Pohemi]

I'll concede that I said "A lot of Fear" when that is probably hyperbole. There was concern/worry that a draft could come, though. It was talked about quite a bit at the time.

I agree that it was dicussed, I just recall it being more discussion among the general populace and the media than anyone in government saying that they were considering bringing it back.

That's why I commented about beating the dead horse, because for all the chatter about it in the public space, I doubt the government and military considered it as more than a passing thought.

I'm not a ranking member of our military-industrial complex with inside knowledge of the time, but those were the opinions that I formed by following it fairly closely from 1990 onwards.

I saw the draft discussions being more fearmongering than anything.

 

[Zorba]

I agree that it was dicussed, I just recall it being more discussion among the general populace and the media than anyone in government saying that they were considering bringing it back.

That's why I commented about beating the dead horse, because for all the chatter about it in the public space, I doubt the government and military considered it as more than a passing thought.

I'm not a ranking member of our military-industrial complex with inside knowledge of the time, but those were the opinions that I formed by following it fairly closely from 1990 onwards.

I saw the draft discussions being more fearmongering than anything.

Yes, I am sure that is all true. But I was talking about concern among draft aged men in the general population, not any actual movement by the government.

 

[dainthomas]

We invaded / destroyed Iraq. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died.
I think "we" have done more than enough.

Their obligations should have died with Saddam. Or only have been kept if we maintained any semblance of the former power structure. Instead we already destroyed everyone responsible.

Agreed. Kinda messed up that Joe Blow Iraqi had to pay for the actions of a long-gone dictator.

 

[Pohemi]

Yes, I am sure that is all true. But I was talking about concern among draft aged men in the general population, not any actual movement by the government.

Sure, and at least some of that aspect that I recall would be anecdotal. I wasn't ever concerned about it happening, and I don't recall any of my friends at the time being so...but that also doesn't apply to the entire country of 18-21 year old males at the time.

We didn't have social media back then to paint the current picture of what was on the minds of people outside your personal radius, so media news was mostly what we relied on.