Iraq thru the eyes of those who are there

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
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For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Some in Iraq Question How and Why War Is Being Waged

By Steve Fainaru
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 10, 2004; Page A01

ISKANDARIYAH, Iraq -- Scrawled on the helmet of Lance Cpl. Carlos Perez are the letters FDNY. After the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York, the Pentagon and western Pennsylvania, Perez quit school, left his job as a firefighter in Long Island, N.Y., and joined the U.S. Marine Corps.

"To be honest, I just wanted to take revenge," said Perez, 20.

Pfc. Kyle Maio, 19, spots Lance Cpl. Carlos Perez, 20. Maio said he thinks U.S. officials are not being candid about Iraq because of upcoming U.S. elections. (Steve Fainaru -- The Washington Post)

Now, two months into a seven-month combat tour in Iraq, Perez said he sees little connection between the events of Sept. 11 and the war he is fighting. Instead, he said, he is increasingly disillusioned by a conflict whose origins remain unclear and frustrated by the timidity of U.S. forces against a mostly faceless enemy.

"Sometimes I see no reason why we're here," Perez said. "First of all, you cannot engage as many times as we want to. Second of all, we're looking for an enemy that's not there. The only way to do it is go house to house until we get out of here."

Perez is hardly alone. In a dozen interviews, Marines from a platoon known as the "81s" expressed in blunt terms their frustrations with the way the war is being conducted and, in some cases, doubts about why it is being waged. The platoon, named for the size in millimeters of its mortar rounds, is part of the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment based in Iskandariyah, 30 miles southwest of Baghdad.

The Marines offered their opinions openly to a reporter traveling with the 1st Battalion, 2nd Marines during operations last week in Babil province, then expanded upon them during interviews over three days in their barracks at Camp Iskandariyah, their forward operating base.

The Marines' opinions have been shaped by their participation in hundreds of hours of operations over the past two months. Their assessments differ sharply from those of the interim Iraqi government and the Bush administration, which have said that Iraq is on a certain -- if bumpy -- course toward peaceful democracy.

"I feel we're going to be here for years and years and years," said Lance Cpl. Edward Elston, 22, of Hackettstown, N.J. "I don't think anything is going to get better; I think it's going to get a lot worse. It's going to be like a Palestinian-type deal. We're going to stop being a policing presence and then start being an occupying presence. . . . We're always going to be here. We're never going to leave."

The views of the mortar platoon of some 50 young Marines, several of whom fought during the first phase of the war last year, are not necessarily reflective of all or even most U.S troops fighting in Iraq. Rather, they offer a snapshot of the frustrations engendered by a grinding conflict that has killed 1,064 Americans, wounded 7,730 and spread to many areas of the country.

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
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Wow. I had no idea the sentiment was changing so much because of Iraq.

Of course this isn't claimed to be a representation of all Marines but is this how the majority of servicemen feel now?
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
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These soldiers are unpatriotic, in fact anti-patriotic. They risk their lives every day and DARE to question the administration?!
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
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Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Wow. I had no idea the sentiment was changing so much because of Iraq.

Of course this isn't claimed to be a representation of all Marines but is this how the majority of servicemen feel now?

I wouldn't say all of them, but how it not be the thoughts of a good amount of them?
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
These soldiers are unpatriotic, in fact anti-patriotic. They risk their lives every day and DARE to question the administration?!
Wow...is that how the Bush administration really feels about soldiers? :(
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.

And? Were you trying to start a flame war? Or do you have a point to make? Because I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush.

CsG


This is a story that questions the claim that the military men wholeheartedly approve of their "mission" in Iraq. Take from it what you will.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
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Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
These soldiers are unpatriotic, in fact anti-patriotic. They risk their lives every day and DARE to question the administration?!
Wow...is that how the Bush administration really feels about soldiers? :(

For the most part, yes. Plus, this is how the administration's followers usually feels.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.

And? Were you trying to start a flame war? Or do you have a point to make? Because I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush.

CsG


And what? Maybe I should ask what point you're trying to make for each of your threads CAD.

Do you have a problem with me posting this?
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.

And? Were you trying to start a flame war? Or do you have a point to make? Because I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush.

CsG


And what? Maybe I should ask what point you're trying to make for each of your threads CAD.

Do you have a problem with me posting this?

Nope, no problem - just wonder what your thought your point was because as I said - I could link an article that says the miltary favors Bush.

Ofcourse I'm not sure what the point of doing it would be in either case.

CsG
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.

And? Were you trying to start a flame war? Or do you have a point to make? Because I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush.

CsG


And what? Maybe I should ask what point you're trying to make for each of your threads CAD.

Do you have a problem with me posting this?

Nope, no problem - just wonder what your thought your point was because as I said - I could link an article that says the miltary favors Bush.

Ofcourse I'm not sure what the point of doing it would be in either case.

CsG

Maybe it's a small way of counteracting the shoveling of sh*t that your boy (and that's what he is, a boy) is putting down our throats. The denial (purposely) has trickled-down (see trickle-down does work on some things) to their followers into attacking dissenting views. The Bush administration has made its followers its own pitchfork and torches mob. It's this mob mentality that allows Bush to further his agenda while keeping his base in control.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Gaard

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.
You know, that's the EXACT reaction I got from someone on a local message board. He claims to be a Marine who fought in the 1st Gulf War and says these guys aren't real Marines.

This guy has drunk so much Kool-Aid his teeth are permanently stained.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.

And? Were you trying to start a flame war? Or do you have a point to make? Because I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush.

CsG


And what? Maybe I should ask what point you're trying to make for each of your threads CAD.

Do you have a problem with me posting this?

Nope, no problem - just wonder what your thought your point was because as I said - I could link an article that says the miltary favors Bush.

Ofcourse I'm not sure what the point of doing it would be in either case.

CsG


Ok, I guess I'll just have to consider if a thread meets your approval before I go ahead and hit the POST button from now on.

Oh yeah, please, think twice before making any sort of off-topic comment in my threads again.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.

And? Were you trying to start a flame war? Or do you have a point to make? Because I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush.

CsG


And what? Maybe I should ask what point you're trying to make for each of your threads CAD.

Do you have a problem with me posting this?

Nope, no problem - just wonder what your thought your point was because as I said - I could link an article that says the miltary favors Bush.

Ofcourse I'm not sure what the point of doing it would be in either case.

CsG


Ok, I guess I'll just have to consider if a thread meets your approval before I go ahead and hit the POST button from now on.

Oh yeah, please, think twice before making any sort of off-topic comment in my threads again.

:roll: Sorry for asking you if you had a point to your thread.:roll:

If you did have a point - please do share, because from your comments in the OP it looked like flamebait. I guess answering my on-topic question was too much for you to handle.

Again, did you have a point you were trying to make? If so - what was it?

CsG
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
For Marines, a Frustrating Fight

Yeah, I know. They're just whiners, they knew what they were getting into when they signed the dotted line, they're not real soldiers, blah blah blah.

And? Were you trying to start a flame war? Or do you have a point to make? Because I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush.

CsG


And what? Maybe I should ask what point you're trying to make for each of your threads CAD.

Do you have a problem with me posting this?

Nope, no problem - just wonder what your thought your point was because as I said - I could link an article that says the miltary favors Bush.

Ofcourse I'm not sure what the point of doing it would be in either case.

CsG


Ok, I guess I'll just have to consider if a thread meets your approval before I go ahead and hit the POST button from now on.

Oh yeah, please, think twice before making any sort of off-topic comment in my threads again.

:roll: Sorry for asking you if you had a point to your thread.:roll:

If you did have a point - please do share, because from your comments in the OP it looked like flamebait. I guess answering my on-topic question was too much for you to handle.

Again, did you have a point you were trying to make? If so - what was it?

CsG

If you can't figure it out, I feel sorry for you.

 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
I guess my point was to show that even a percentage of those dying for us are questioning what this war is all about. My comments after the quote are just pre-emptive retorts for the standard rightie remarks. Now, are you satisfied? Are all of your thread requirements met?
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Gaard
I guess my point was to show that even a percentage of those dying for us are questioning what this war is all about. My comments after the quote are just pre-emptive retorts for the standard rightie remarks. Now, are you satisfied? Are all of your thread requirements met?

I wasn't making "requirements" - I was asking for your point because as I said by your comments it looked like it was that you were looking for a flame war.
****

I don't think there has ever been a question that some soldiers question war. I know I haven't ever thought that ALL of them support Bush or the mission in Iraq or even Afghanistan for that matter.

See, that wasn't too hard.:)

CsG
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Fair enough CAD. I'll have to remember that what to me is clear might not be to others (did that make sense?)


Also, in the future, I'll kindly ask you to back me up the next time I chastize someone for making derogatory comments about any soldier who dares to question the reasons why.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Perez said the frustrations inherent in the war became apparent almost immediately after he arrived in Iraq in late July. A Colombian immigrant, he said he decided to join the Marine Corps after attending the funeral of a friend who had died in the Sept. 11 attacks. The friend, Thomas Hetzel, was a volunteer firefighter at the Franklin Square & Munson Fire Department on Long Island, where Perez also volunteered.

At the time, Perez was studying criminal justice at Nassau Community College. "While I was at the funeral I was looking at his little daughter cry," he said. "He had a pregnant wife and two kids. I just said, 'All right, this is what I want to do.' "

But Perez said he came to think that war in Iraq was unrelated to his anger. "How do I put this?" he said. "First of all, this is a whole different thing. We're supposed to be looking for al Qaeda. They're the ones who are supposedly responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks. This has no connection at all to Sept. 11 because this war started just by telling us about all the nuclear warheads over here."

Snyder, who was listening, added: "Pretty much I think they just diverted the war on terrorism. I agree with the Afghanistan war and all the Sept. 11 stuff, but it feels like they left the bigger war over there to come here. And now, while we're on the ground over here, it seems like we're not even close to catching frigging bin Laden."

Perez said he thought that in some ways he was still fighting terrorists "and I can see how they might attack the United States in the future. It's a link, but it's not really based in the same thing."

Perez added that he now believes the primary reason for the U.S. presence is to help the Iraqis. "But they don't seem like they want to be helped," he said. "I've only been here two months, but every time you go out, people give you bad looks and it just seems like everybody wants to shoot you."
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Gaard
Fair enough CAD. I'll have to remember that what to me is clear might not be to others (did that make sense?)


Also, in the future, I'll kindly ask you to back me up the next time I chastize someone for making derogatory comments about any soldier who dares to question the reasons why.

Fair enough.:) I figured that might be your point but as I said - your comments overshadowed that initial assumption so I asked.

CsG
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,925
5,021
136
Asked if he was concerned that the Marines would be punished for speaking out, Autin responded: "We don't give a crap. What are they going to do, send us to Iraq?"




Great gallows humor.





 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
These soldiers are unpatriotic, in fact anti-patriotic. They risk their lives every day and DARE to question the administration?!

They can say anything they wish. They have earned the right.

 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
"I could link a news story that says the military favors Bush"

oh no, he can link a news story!

I could link a story that says there are crazy half-animal, half-alien animals running around in Maryland, big friggin deal.

This particluar thread was about some soldiers in Iraq who are questioning what the heck they are doing there - nothing more, nothing less. Keep your right wing nutjob hack comments to yourself - no wait, sorry, that is my standard response to RR and Nurseboy...Cad, stay out of threads you really can't crap on!