• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

IRAQ: Death in Fallujah rising, doctors say

BBond

Diamond Member
Update on Fallujah. Many of those terrorists killed during the U.S. led assault on Fallujah are turning out to be women and children according to doctors at Fallujah's main hospital.

IRAQ: Death in Fallujah rising, doctors say

04 Jan 2005 14:56:16 GMT

Source: Integrated Regional Information Networks

FALLUJAH, 4 January (IRIN) - "It was really distressing picking up dead bodies from destroyed homes, especially children. It is the most depressing situation I have ever been in since the war started," Dr Rafa'ah al-Iyssaue, director of the main hospital in Fallujah city, some 60 km west of Baghdad, told IRIN.

According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.

Doctors at the hospital claim that many bodies had been found in a mutilated condition, some without legs or arms. Two babies were found at their homes, who are believed to have died from malnutrition, according to a specialist at the hospital.

Al-Iyssaue added these numbers were only from nine neighbourhoods of the city and that 18 others had not yet been reached, as they were waiting for help from the Iraqi Red Crescent Society (IRCS) to make it easier for them to enter.

He explained that many of the dead had been already buried by civilians from the Garma and Amirya districts of Fallujah after approval from US-led forces nearly three weeks ago, and those bodies had not been counted.

IRCS officials told IRIN they needed more time to give an accurate death toll, adding that the city was completely uninhabitable.

Ministry of Health officials told IRIN that they are in the process of investigating the number of deaths, but claim that a very small number of women and children were killed, contrary to what doctors in Fallujah have said. They added that they are working together with the US-led forces to rehabilitate the health system inside the city.

Residents who have returned to their homes after waiting hours to enter the city found that most of their homes had been totally destroyed by the fighting which started nearly a month ago between the US-led forces and insurgents who are said to be under the control of Abu-Mussab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist wanted by the Iraqi government.

"I've been here for more than six hours and until now could not enter the city, even after the fighting finished in our area. There is no respect for civilians," Samirah al-Jumaili, a mother of seven, told IRIN.

The situation in Fallujah is still not clear. According to Col. Clark Mathew, spokesman for the US Marines, night time attacks continue in some areas of the city. US forces have informed residents not to leave their homes after the imposed curfew of 1800 to 0600.

Mathew explained that most attacks were in areas where US troops have bases in order to secure the city, but added that by the end of this month the situation should be under control and that the reconstruction of Fallujah would then begin. "We hope that very soon reconstruction of Fallujah will start and families will feel a new life," Mathew added.

"The US troops are saying that soon Fallujah will be rebuilt. I believe that this city won't offer a minimum of living conditions until another year has passed. I am still searching for what they have been calling democracy," Muhammad Kubaissy, a civilian from Fallujah, told IRIN. His home and two shops were destroyed in the fighting.

"They came to bring us freedom, but all Iraqis are now prisoners in their own homes," he added.

"It is impossible to live in Fallujah. There is no water, electricity or sewage treatment. Even hospitals cannot afford the minimum of security for all families of the city. We don't have enough medicine and you can feel the bad smell of bodies in the air," al-Iyssaue added.

Residents of Fallujah have been asking the Iraqi government to allow journalists and TV reporters to enter the city in order to show the reality.

The government will only allow journalists to visit with a special identity card, saying it is for their own safety. Many journalists have been turned away from Fallujah after not receiving authorisation from US-troops guarding the city.

"We need someone here to show the reality of Fallujah. Even when some journalists are here they are being followed by the Marines. We need someone to help us. The world should see the real picture of Fallujah," Sheikh Abbas al-Zubeiny told IRIN.

 
Never mind this trifling irrelevancy of unspeakable horror . . . aren't you the previously banned member BOBDN!? :shocked:
 
More propaganda.

Remember the story of the US bombing a supposed "wedding party?" When in reality, insurgents just put dead bodies there from elsewhere and made it appear like a wedding.

Not to say that dead women and children are not sad, but I don't think the US did it.
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Never mind this trifling irrelevancy of unspeakable horror . . . aren't you the previously banned member BOBDN!? :shocked:

:laugh:

Where on Earth are my priorities?

:evil:

 
Originally posted by: Passions
More propaganda.

Remember the story of the US bombing a supposed "wedding party?" When in reality, insurgents just put dead bodies there from elsewhere and made it appear like a wedding.

Not to say that dead women and children are not sad, but I don't think the US did it.

so there were other people flying planes over falluja dropping bombs and tanks from other countries driving around the streets???! You shoudl hurry and tell the pentagon!!!
 
Originally posted by: Passions
More propaganda.

Remember the story of the US bombing a supposed "wedding party?" When in reality, insurgents just put dead bodies there from elsewhere and made it appear like a wedding.

Not to say that dead women and children are not sad, but I don't think the US did it.

Just who was dropping all those bombs on Fallujah?

 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Passions
More propaganda.

Remember the story of the US bombing a supposed "wedding party?" When in reality, insurgents just put dead bodies there from elsewhere and made it appear like a wedding.

Not to say that dead women and children are not sad, but I don't think the US did it.

Just who was dropping all those bombs on Fallujah?

Let's not get carried away here.

I am sure a few casulities resulted, but the US has precision bombs and does not randomly bomb without target. You guys make it seem like the US armed forces just love to bomb and randomly kill women + children without reason. :thumbsdown:
 
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
where's the fanataics saying they shouldn't have been htere in the first place?

Actually, you're right. They shouldn't have been there. It's a warzone, get out!

Clear message was sent to Fallujians. Get out while you can. Stay and die.

They chose to stay. Now who is at fault?
 
According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.
[Republican] It's the insurgents' fault [/Rebublican]


Speaking of insurgents...
Iraq battling more than 200,000 insurgents: intelligence chief

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Iraq's insurgency counts more than 200,000 active fighters and sympathisers, the country's national intelligence chief told AFP, in the bleakest assessment to date of the armed revolt waged by Sunni Muslims.

"I think the resistance is bigger than the US military in Iraq. I think the resistance is more than 200,000 people," Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said in an interview ahead of the January 30 elections.
(for those who flunked Math, this is more than US forces)




Never mind this trifling irrelevancy of unspeakable horror . . . aren't you the previously banned member BOBDN!?
:laugh:
 
Those precision bombs razed the entire city of Fallujah.

I'm not implying anyone loves dropping bombs on women and children. But let's not allow ourselves to believe U.S. bombs and bullets kill "terrorists" only.

According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.

Residents who have returned to their homes after waiting hours to enter the city found that most of their homes had been totally destroyed by the fighting which started nearly a month ago between the US-led forces and insurgents who are said to be under the control of Abu-Mussab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian terrorist wanted by the Iraqi government.

"It is impossible to live in Fallujah. There is no water, electricity or sewage treatment.

Many journalists have been turned away from Fallujah after not receiving authorisation from US-troops guarding the city.


 
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Passions
More propaganda.

Remember the story of the US bombing a supposed "wedding party?" When in reality, insurgents just put dead bodies there from elsewhere and made it appear like a wedding.

Not to say that dead women and children are not sad, but I don't think the US did it.

Just who was dropping all those bombs on Fallujah?

Let's not get carried away here.

I am sure a few casulities resulted, but the US has precision bombs and does not randomly bomb without target. You guys make it seem like the US armed forces just love to bomb and randomly kill women + children without reason. :thumbsdown:
Shock-n-Awe, dude. Shock-n-Awe

 
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
where's the fanataics saying they shouldn't have been htere in the first place?

Actually, you're right. They shouldn't have been there. It's a warzone, get out!

Clear message was sent to Fallujians. Get out while you can. Stay and die.

They chose to stay. Now who is at fault?

A strange way to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq. Leave or be killed.

Have you considered there may have been people in a city of hundreds of thousands who simply coulnd't afford to leave, or had nowhere to go?

 
According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.

Call me skeptical that they only found women, children and old men. I surprised they did not say they were killed during a wedding.

 
Passions, you're like that European dimwit who saw a giraffe for the first time and said "there is no such animal!" So we have many independent witness (including doctors and journalists) who say that the cty is inhabitable, than many thousands of women and children have been killed, and Passions comes along and tells us "we have precision bombs, so that cannot be true".
 
Originally posted by: fornax
Passions, you're like that European dimwit who saw a giraffe for the first time and said "there is no such animal!" So we have many independent witness (including doctors and journalists) who say that the cty is inhabitable, than many thousands of women and children have been killed, and Passions comes along and tells us "we have precision bombs, so that cannot be true".

Did you see dead women and children with your own eyes? Nope.

How did you get your information then? From a biased newsclip.

dimwit? I think not.

I'd rather believe my own govenment than someone elses, thank you.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.

Call me skeptical that they only found women, children and old men. I surprised they did not say they were killed during a wedding.

The story didn't say "all". The story said 550 out of the 700 bodies recovered from the rubble of Fallujah so far are women and children.

According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.


Oh, and here's an account of the wedding massacre.

Video Contradicts US Military, Shows Iraq Wedding Celebration

 
They should be happy we left any building in that town still standing. No other country would ever fight a war with one arm tied behind our back like we do.

BBond, your so smart. We should have sent you into Fallujah to talk the terrorists into leaving. I'm sure they are holed up in that Mosque we arent allowed to bomb.... or staying in a town we arent allowed to bomb either.

Here's an idea. Why dont we call all the terrorists into the middle of the desert so we dont hurt no one else during this war. Go for it.
 
Originally posted by: FallenHero96
They should be happy we left any building in that town still standing. No other country would ever fight a war with one arm tied behind our back like we do.

BBond, your so smart. We should have sent you into Fallujah to talk the terrorists into leaving. I'm sure they are holed up in that Mosque we arent allowed to bomb.... or staying in a town we arent allowed to bomb either.

Here's an idea. Why dont we call all the terrorists into the middle of the desert so we dont hurt no one else during this war. Go for it.

Why don't we attack only countries who pose a true threat and avoid all this unnecessary carnage altogether?

 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Never mind this trifling irrelevancy of unspeakable horror . . . aren't you the previously banned member BOBDN!? :shocked:

Of course he is. But alas, nobody gives a sh1t about upholding bans unless you are a *really quiet* republican. Then you're even a banned word.

Now, onto the subject at hand...

Who is lying, Perknose?

Ware: "In six days of non-stop combat I didn?t see a single civilian. "
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: charrison
According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.

Call me skeptical that they only found women, children and old men. I surprised they did not say they were killed during a wedding.

The story didn't say "all". The story said 550 out of the 700 bodies recovered from the rubble of Fallujah so far are women and children.

According to al-Iyssaue, the hospital emergency team has recovered more than 700 bodies from rubble where houses and shops once stood, adding that more than 550 were women and children. He said a very small number of men were found in these places and most were elderly.

550 women and children
leaving 150 that were mostly old men....


Like said, call me skeptical.




 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Perknose
Never mind this trifling irrelevancy of unspeakable horror . . . aren't you the previously banned member BOBDN!? :shocked:

Of course he is. But alas, nobody gives a sh1t about upholding bans unless you are a *really quiet* republican. Then you're even a banned word.

Now, onto the subject at hand...

Who is lying, Perknose?

Ware: "In six days of non-stop combat I didn?t see a single civilian. "
Damn, alchy, don't let your bitter "oppressed right wing white guy" syndrome drive you right over the edge into spit speckled idiocy. Your continued claim that Michael Ware, the long time Time magazine Bagdhad bureau chief would be somehow lying about NOT encountering any civilians in combat while embedded with the US Army's Alpha Company, third platoon is as incomprehensible as it is ludicrous.

And the EXPLANATION is as simple as it is obvious, if only you weren't blinded by your partisan hate.

Civilians weren't exactly popping their heads out as Alpha Company started rumbling down their block, now were they. Indeed, the female, the aged, the very young and the otherwise non-combatant left behind were probably curled up in a corner, trying to kiss their ass goodbye.

So when Alpha Company, QUITE RIGHTLY for the unfortunate circumstance, conducted their Reconnaissance by Fire, as a scared, embedded reporter, you'd never really see the kids and oldsters they unfortunately offed:
WARE: Oh, absolutely, I mean? For example, the military unit I was with, I mean, the operation in Fallujah involved largely Marines, but also some army elements. I was with one of those elements. The way they proceeded through the city, given that there was booby-traps, improvised explosive devices, riddling the streets everywhere. Entire houses were rigged to blow. The way they proceeded was what they call ?Reconnaissance by Fire.? If you?re going to go down a street first you scour it for any potential danger. How do you do that? You do it with a 25mm cannon on an armoured Bradley fighting vehicle. Or you do it with one 20mm tank round. Just blow up everything that looks vaguely suspicious. Then if someone shoots at you from a building, or there?s an explosion near a vehicle, don?t mess with it. Don?t go into the building looking for the guy? just level the building. And then go through the rubble afterwards.
This man, Michael Ware, has spent the last two years of his life risking it time and again to ferret out the truth about this dog of a war from both sides, but because his deeply knowledgeable conclusions differ from your preconceived ones, you have the NEED to brand him a liar.

Doing so makes you look like a partisan nutcase, alchy.

I mean, PLEASE ASK YOURSELF THIS: If Michael Ware is such a leftist radical liar, why would the US ARMY credential him to be embedded with them in their biggest and most important operation (Fallujah) since our mission was "accomplished"?





 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Perknose
Never mind this trifling irrelevancy of unspeakable horror . . . aren't you the previously banned member BOBDN!? :shocked:
Of course he is. But alas, nobody gives a sh1t about upholding bans unless you are a *really quiet* republican. Then you're even a banned word.

Now, onto the subject at hand...

Who is lying, Perknose?

Ware: "In six days of non-stop combat I didn?t see a single civilian. "
Just my $0.02 worth, but I think it's high time all you right-wing crybabies get over this childish "the mods are picking on me" nonsense. If you don't think you're getting your money's worth here, hit the road. When you get to be President/King, you can surround yourself with lackeys who eagerly parrot whatever you say. Until then, grow up.

IMO, It's all just another diversion from the fact that you cannot defend your idol in the White House. Instead, you try everything you can to distract and distort and deny, anything to disrupt attempts by your opponents to expose this administration. Let's not focus on the Bush administration's atrocities in Fallujah. Oh no, let's trot out the same empty claims about BBond and those evil tree-hugging, dope-smoking, bleeding heart commie-lib moderators. After all, they must be unfair because they don't swoon over your every word like the dittoheads you call friends.

No matter how much you don't like to hear it, we massacred countless innocent human beings in Fallujah. Virtually every new report from outside the Bush administration confirms this, the OP being just the latest example. Perhpas you're OK with this, rationalizing the end justifies the means, but stop lying to yourself about what really happened. Either have the cajones to stand up and defend your boy's slaughter, or crawl back under your rock and shut up. You have a personal right to remain in ignorant denial. You do not have the right to deny the truth to others.
 
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Perknose
Never mind this trifling irrelevancy of unspeakable horror . . . aren't you the previously banned member BOBDN!? :shocked:

Of course he is. But alas, nobody gives a sh1t about upholding bans unless you are a *really quiet* republican. Then you're even a banned word.

Now, onto the subject at hand...

Who is lying, Perknose?

Ware: "In six days of non-stop combat I didn?t see a single civilian. "
Damn, alchy, don't let your bitter "oppressed right wing white guy" syndrome drive you right over the edge into spit speckled idiocy. Your continued claim that Michael Ware, the long time Time magazine Bagdhad bureau chief would be somehow lying about NOT encountering any civilians in combat while embedded with the US Army's Alpha Company, third platoon is as incomprehensible as it is ludicrous.

And the EXPLANATION is as simple as it is obvious, if only you weren't blinded by your partisan hate.

Civilians weren't exactly popping their heads out as Alpha Company started rumbling down their block, now were they. Indeed, the female, the aged, the very young and the otherwise non-combatant left behind were probably curled up in a corner, trying to kiss their ass goodbye.

So when Alpha Company, QUITE RIGHTLY for the unfortunate circumstance, conducted their Reconnaissance by Fire, as a scared, embedded reporter, you'd never really see the kids and oldsters they unfortunately offed:
WARE: Oh, absolutely, I mean? For example, the military unit I was with, I mean, the operation in Fallujah involved largely Marines, but also some army elements. I was with one of those elements. The way they proceeded through the city, given that there was booby-traps, improvised explosive devices, riddling the streets everywhere. Entire houses were rigged to blow. The way they proceeded was what they call ?Reconnaissance by Fire.? If you?re going to go down a street first you scour it for any potential danger. How do you do that? You do it with a 25mm cannon on an armoured Bradley fighting vehicle. Or you do it with one 20mm tank round. Just blow up everything that looks vaguely suspicious. Then if someone shoots at you from a building, or there?s an explosion near a vehicle, don?t mess with it. Don?t go into the building looking for the guy? just level the building. And then go through the rubble afterwards.
This man, Michael Ware, has spent the last two years of his life risking it time and again to ferret out the truth about this dog of a war from both sides, but because his deeply knowledgeable conclusions differ from your preconceived ones, you have the NEED to brand him a liar.

Doing so makes you look like a partisan nutcase, alchy.

I mean, PLEASE ASK YOURSELF THIS: If Michael Ware is such a leftist radical liar, why would the US ARMY credential him to be embedded with them in their biggest and most important operation (Fallujah) since our mission was "accomplished"?

I was branding the doctors a liar, not Ware. Try again. I've already isolated the statements where I feel Ware was stating his opinion in a very unjournalistic (biased? partisan? familiar with those words?) way in the previous thread.

Ware goes on:

Now, there were civilians in pockets of that city. But nothing like the 40,000 that was originally estimated by military planners. So, the fact that aid agencies aren?t in there right now, isn?t to me a terribly disturbing thing
Nothing about them hiding in corners, being buried in buildings. He didn't see a single one...not a live one, not a dead one. Either the pissed off Baathist doctors are lying like they have since day one, or Ware is.

But to be perfectly honest with you, I don't really care. This is a disreputable website, with disreputable sources, posted by an OP with a now secondary reputation of a boil on my hairy ass.
 
Back
Top