Iraq costs are $119.4 billion and rising; lawmakers ponder how money might have been spent

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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http://www.boston.com/dailynews/153/wash/Iraq_costs_are_119_4_billion_aP.shtml

WASHINGTON (AP) Even by Washington standards, the $119.4 billion that President Bush and Congress have provided for the first two years of the war in Iraq is real money.

Though a tiny fraction of overall federal spending, the figure is huge in other ways. It dwarfs the $100 million that could hire 2,500 more airport security screeners,the $500 million that could add 69,400 more children to Head Start, the $1 billion that would let 160,000 more low-income families keep federal rent subsidies, Senate Democrats say. Or it could reduce the runaway federal deficit.

The $119.4 billion total, compiled by the White House Office of Management and Budget, is the administration's most comprehensive tally of the war's financial costs so far. Of the total, $97.2 billion has been for military operations, $21.2 billion for rebuilding Iraq's economy and government, and $1 billion for U.S. administrative expenses there.

Congress approved the money over the past year-and-a-half with overwhelming votes, and few lawmakers doubt its need. But many of them say it soaks up dollars that other parts of the $2.4 trillion budget could use, from education initiatives to tax cuts and more.

''When you integrate Iraqi spending, which is necessary, with the effort to control spending, it puts more pressure on you to make harder choices,'' said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. ''If you can name one part of government immune from this, I'd like to know.''

If not used for war, the money could take a healthy bite out of the government's runaway annual deficits, which are expected to set a record this year exceeding $400 billion. The $119.4 billion is four times this year's federal spending for biomedical research, 14 times what Washington will spend to clean the environment, 26 times the FBI's budget.

The total would also be enough to hand every Iraqi a check for $4,776 about eight times that country's average income.

Lawrence Lindsey, then the White House economic adviser, estimated before the Iraq war that it could cost $100 billion to $200 billion. Other administration officials called the figure far too large and argued that Iraq's oil revenues would let the country largely rebuild itself.

Instead, Lindsey's estimate has proven prophetic. In an interview last week, White House deputy budget chief Joel Kaplan blamed the war's costs on ''unanticipated events'' like the bad condition of Iraq's infrastructure and the prolonged violent resistance.

The Congressional Research Service, which provides nonpartisan analyses for lawmakers, has calculated Iraq costs for the first two years at $121.8 billion, using higher defense figures than the administration. Either way, the number will grow dramatically in the near future.

Bush has already requested an additional $25 billion for the U.S. presence in Iraq and Afghanistan next year, with the bulk of the money headed to Iraq. Administration officials have said they expect to eventually seek more than $50 billion for 2005.

Others use higher numbers. Rep. Jerry Lewis, R-Calif., chairman of a subcommittee that controls the Pentagon's budget, says he expects the 2005 price tag to be $75 billion. Rep. John Spratt of South Carolina, top Democrat on the House Budget Committee, puts the figure as high as $80 billion.

By the time the final Iraq figure for 2005 is in, American spending there could easily exceed $160 billion for 2003 through 2005. That would nearly double the combined costs in today's dollars of the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Civil War and the Spanish-American War.

Over the longer run, it's anybody's guess because of uncertainties over Iraq's stability and the revenue that may be generated by the country's damaged oil industry.

The Congressional Budget Office has estimated it could cost up to $29 billion annually to keep 129,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, about the number there now. The United Nations and World Bank have estimated $55 billion in rebuilding costs through 2007.

''The president has been clear since the attacks of 9/11 that winning the war on terrorism, protecting the homeland, was in fact his highest priority,'' said the White House's Kaplan. ''So that's where he has focused our resources'' along with trying to strengthen the economy.

Kaplan would not speculate on how Bush's budget would be different with no war in Iraq, saying of the conflict, ''That's the world the president has had to deal with.''

Even so, many in Congress say they wish the money were available for other items, with most lawmakers of both parties citing deficit reduction as a primary potential use.

''The economic pressures on this country will be so severe by 2011,'' when the baby boom generation starts retiring, ''that right now we need to be making fiscally responsible decisions,'' said Rep. Charles Stenholm, D-Texas, a longtime advocate of controlling annual budget deficits.

Many Democrats also suggested various spending initiatives.

''I'd have the money going to urban districts, to rural districts where class sizes are too big, where buildings are dilapidated,'' said Rep. Donald Payne, D-N.J.

While some Republicans said they would also favor more spending for highways and other initiatives, others were more prone to tax cuts and not spending the money.

''I'd say let's have a smaller deficit. But most of all, don't spend it on something else. The non-defense, non-security part of the budget is out of control,'' said Rep. Patrick Toomey, R-Pa.

Larry Lindsey was a yes-man Bush had installed as head of the National Economic Council. It was supposed to be an honest broker position but Bush tilted it with someone more supportive of his own economic plans.

Well, when Lindsey was giving his estimate for the cost of the war, it didn't fit in line with Bush and the neocons wishes so they pushed Lindsey out the door at the same time as O'Neill was fired.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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It's time for fiscal conservatives to see these expenditures for what they are: a waste. The Democrats need to get the message out that the Republicans aren't the party of fiscal prudence anymore.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
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According to the BBC
The total cost of the iraq war including the prospective occupation needed until infrastructure is completed is $162 billion for the war and reconstruction plus $48-$60 billion per year for occupation.
Putting the total bill at up to $450 billion.

Accoring to this the cost of fighting the aids and hiv epidemic would cost $10 billion a year. This initiative which is grossly underfunded by the US would save some of the 2.3 million people who died from hiv related illness in Africa in 2003. Not to metion the 40million who live with the illness.

Canada and a few key countries don't have the money to fight aids alone...

This is one MUCH better way of how to save lives...instead of war (because that is what the war is about right? saving people from death and torture)
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
According to the BBC
The total cost of the iraq war including the prospective occupation needed until infrastructure is completed is $162 billion for the war and reconstruction plus $48-$60 billion per year for occupation.
Putting the total bill at up to $450 billion.

Accoring to this the cost of fighting the aids and hiv epidemic would cost $10 billion a year. This initiative which is grossly underfunded by the US would save some of the 2.3 million people who died from hiv related illness in Africa in 2003. Not to metion the 40million who live with the illness.

Canada and a few key countries don't have the money to fight aids alone...

This is one MUCH better way of how to save lives...instead of war (because that is what the war is about right? saving people from death and torture)

great point
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
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Originally posted by: Czar
but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush

Beyond that, realist politicians in America do not see AIDS in africa as a problem as it results in natural population control in a region of the world with the highest fecundity in the world.
 
May 10, 2001
2,669
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0
Originally posted by: Czar
but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush

That?s incorrect; the anti-aids fund for Africa includes funds for prophylactics as one of the many tools to reduce the spread of HIV-AIDS.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Originally posted by: Czar
but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush

That?s incorrect; the anti-aids fund for Africa includes funds for prophylactics as one of the many tools to reduce the spread of HIV-AIDS.

and birth control is one of the tools to reduce the spread of hiv?
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
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Security is always a matter of tradeoffs. It's important to discuss both possible security measures and their costs. Even a country as powerful as the U.S. has a finite amount of resources (money, time, trained personnel), so we must make effective tradeoffs.

The question we have to ask is whether we received the most security we could have had for the $100+ billion and thousands of casaulties that we spent in Iraq or not? If we did, then we did the right thing, but if we didn't, we would've been smarter to invest those resources elsewhere.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
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Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Czar
but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush

Beyond that, realist politicians in America do not see AIDS in africa as a problem as it results in natural population control in a region of the world with the highest fecundity in the world.

"Realist Politicians"?????....right!

under that theory would you agree that 9/11 was natural population control? (cuz war in the past has been)

and who is to choose which aids infectees survive or not (cuz americans aren't dying)...why insure people in the US if it is "natural population control"

If you did research, you'd realize that it is infrastructure and industry/jobs which controls birth rates.
The poorest people in the world have lots of kids to help support them when they are old or weak/dying of aids as they cannot work. You can also see this in your own country. The poorer have kids...the rich are too busy with work/career and have good retirement plans.

you want population control, invest in their country so they are more prosporous to not need to have kids to support them, and have money for birth control.

Or you can take the "realist politician" view and bomb them/let them die/sanction them.
 

Bowmaster

Senior member
Mar 11, 2002
523
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0
I'm much more concerned with the loss of life:

Latest Military Fatality Date: 5/31/2004

Total Fatalities since May 1, 2003: 754
March 20th through May 1st: 139
Hostile US Fatalities Since May 1, 2003: 489

Hostile Fatalities Since May 1, 2003: 546

US deaths since July 2, 2003: 610
(Pres. Bush announces, "Bring Them On")
Total Fatalities since December 13, 2003: 382
(Saddam Hussein is captured)
Total Hostile Fatalities since December 13, 2003: 308
(Saddam Hussein is captured)
* Other - Polish: 4

* Other - Danish: 1

* Other - Spanish: 11
1 Military Diplomat, 2 Army Soldier, 8 Central Intelligence Agents
* Other - Italian: 18

* Other - Ukrainian: 6

* Other - Bulgarian: 6

* Other - Thai: 2

* Other - Estonian: 1

* Other - Salvadoran: 1

* Other - Netherlands 1
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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Originally posted by: cquark
Security is always a matter of tradeoffs. ....
The question we have to ask is whether we received the most security we could have had for the $100+ billion and thousands of casaulties that we spent in Iraq or not? If we did, then we did the right thing, but if we didn't, we would've been smarter to invest those resources elsewhere.

These funds should have been used to bolster our own security at all ports, airlines, power plants, surveillance, etc. That would have made us safer. Instead, we are only creating more antogonism which leads to more terrorism. The lost money will never get back to us in increased gains in security. It's a sad waste of lives and resources. Once again in the name of hubris and pride.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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Yeah, we could have wasted that money on school teachers, bridges, roads, national parks, our electric grid (the public parts), restoring Christopher Reeve to full use of his body ( :) ) (Hey, we need Superman at a time like this), research funding for a variety of diseases (NIH), immunizations for millions of kids in low income neighborhoods, etc. etc.

But, using big machinery that goes bang is a lot more fun for boys who never grew up.

-Robert
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
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True, the US is far less safe than it was post 9/11.
it is like the palestine and isreal...you think attacking palestine has helped isreal with their fight against terrorism?
except you guys arent even attacking the right people!...doh!
 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Originally posted by: Stunt
True, the US is far less safe than it was post 9/11.
it is like the palestine and isreal...you think attacking palestine has helped isreal with their fight against terrorism?
except you guys arent even attacking the right people!...doh!

I think Israel making strikes against Palestine HAVE prevented terror attacks in that country. It hasn't stopped them, and its certainly better than letting them go unpunished. I think the Israeli people would rather have Israel defending itself resulting in more deaths, than doing nothing but having less deaths.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
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Actually isreal is protesting recent actions taken by their government. They want peace not "punishment", i'd like you to find a reputable news source/poll which shows support for punishmet of palestine and perhaps a study showing the decline of palestine attacks with isreali aggressiveness.
 
May 10, 2001
2,669
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Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Originally posted by: Czar
but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush
That?s incorrect; the anti-aids fund for Africa includes funds for prophylactics as one of the many tools to reduce the spread of HIV-AIDS.
and birth control is one of the tools to reduce the spread of hiv?
Sure, as long as it doesn't increase the number of sexual encounters and the are used properly. Of course education about the benefits of abstinence and monogamous sex need to just as strongly be put forth as another way to reduce the spread of HIV.

The question we have to ask is whether we received the most security we could have had for the $100+ billion and thousands of casaulties that we spent in Iraq or not? If we did, then we did the right thing, but if we didn't, we would've been smarter to invest those resources elsewhere.
i think we'll see a return on our investment, 20 or so years down the line.

hese funds should have been used to bolster our own security at all ports, airlines, power plants, surveillance, etc.
expansionary fiscal policy is particularly ineffective when used to remove people from the workforce.
They want peace not "punishment", i'd like you to find a reputable news source/poll which shows support for punishmet of palestine and perhaps a study showing the decline of palestine attacks with isreali aggressiveness.
You know why there are Muslim Israelis and no Jewish Palestinians? Because the only reason Palestinians exist is a mullah?s fatwa order to kill all Jews in the Muslim holy lands.
oh wait.

I think they should just let the Palestinians kill however many of them they want... that'll show the world, not like their are a limited quantity of Jews or anything...

Oh.. wait.
 

Cobalt

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2000
4,642
1
81
Originally posted by: Czar
but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush

Birth control prevents birth.. Not STDs such as HIV.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
well...some do both like condoms...he could have been refering to this...
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
who said war was cheap?


now if kerry became president....what would we do? Just cut off spending and pull out leaving Iraq in the state it is in?
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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magomago:

Gee, I hope so. Those pricks deserve it. Why should a single American die for those bastages? Over 70% of them per a recent Gallup poll would color us gone.

When will America wake up?

-Robert
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,709
6,266
126
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
Originally posted by: Czar
but realy, that HIV battle would involve promoting birth control and thats a no no for bush
That?s incorrect; the anti-aids fund for Africa includes funds for prophylactics as one of the many tools to reduce the spread of HIV-AIDS.
and birth control is one of the tools to reduce the spread of hiv?
Sure, as long as it doesn't increase the number of sexual encounters and the are used properly. Of course education about the benefits of abstinence and monogamous sex need to just as strongly be put forth as another way to reduce the spread of HIV.

The question we have to ask is whether we received the most security we could have had for the $100+ billion and thousands of casaulties that we spent in Iraq or not? If we did, then we did the right thing, but if we didn't, we would've been smarter to invest those resources elsewhere.
i think we'll see a return on our investment, 20 or so years down the line.

hese funds should have been used to bolster our own security at all ports, airlines, power plants, surveillance, etc.
expansionary fiscal policy is particularly ineffective when used to remove people from the workforce.
They want peace not "punishment", i'd like you to find a reputable news source/poll which shows support for punishmet of palestine and perhaps a study showing the decline of palestine attacks with isreali aggressiveness.
You know why there are Muslim Israelis and no Jewish Palestinians? Because the only reason Palestinians exist is a mullah?s fatwa order to kill all Jews in the Muslim holy lands.
oh wait.

I think they should just let the Palestinians kill however many of them they want... that'll show the world, not like their are a limited quantity of Jews or anything...

Oh.. wait.

There is no Palestine, how can there be Jewish Palestinians?
 

virtueixi

Platinum Member
Jun 28, 2003
2,781
0
0
Originally posted by: chess9
magomago:

Gee, I hope so. Those pricks deserve it. Why should a single American die for those bastages? Over 70% of them per a recent Gallup poll would color us gone.

When will America wake up?

-Robert

Seriously. IMO this whole war was/is a big waste of money and lives, so we should cut our losses and pull out. I know I'd rather have more money for college than pay for a bunch of ungrateful people's aid. If Bush is relected, it will just go to prove how retarded this country's populous has become. He basically tricked us into this war. He's doing whatever the fvck he wants, thinking it's helping national security(maybe not). If he spent half that money here, I'm sure it would have been better spent because it will take years to implement all these new security guidelines, which won't even help that much. Instead he decides to spend all of our money on pissing off terrorists and making us a bigger target. I'm sick of hearing his BS speech everytime soldiers die, because it is BS. If it was part of his family maybe he would think twice about spitting his fake condolenses because they don't mean jack.