Iranian Agents in Iraq

[Jhhnn]

Nice selective quote, dna- your usual appeal to the lazy. I offered up the wiki piece in its entirety, just so people could understand the more subtle possibilities of translation...

In japanese, "holysh!t" has been translated as "God excrement", with an accompanying change of meaning...

And this-

"I wonder how the Warsaw ghetto would've looked like after several billions of dollars in international aid. "

About like Gaza, I'd suspect, except that there were a lot fewer people inside the walls... All of which ignores the simple fact that the Israelis have a tendency to destroy their infrastructure faster than it can be built up, and that remaining Palestinian enclaves simply can't sustain themselves, so aid will be required for the forseeable future...

And this, from palehorse74-

"So, tell me, are the other thousands of Iranian agents in Iraq also invited? How about the shaped charges that they are building to destroy armored vehicles and kill American soldiers? Is that OK too? How about all of the training they are providing for the sectarian gangs on both sides that results in the death of American soldiers? Is that OK too?

Iran is committing acts of war against the U.S. on a daily basis and people like you dismiss it as "justifiable" or "hardly noticeable" or "no big deal"."

Thousands? How did 2 guys suddenly become thousands?

And if Iran is committing acts of war against the US, then clearly the US and Pakistan were doing the same arming the mujahedin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, right? So, uhh, the Russians should have nuked us, right?

 

[Slackware]

You have 45 minutes to solve this before a mushroom cloud. (again) If you don't get it by this comment then get this, the world laughs at you acting on your fears, pissing the lifes of your soldiers away for something that at most will be a temporary victory (if you had the guts, which you don't) and most likely will just be another failure in the long list of failures of the US.

yeah, we remember how you got attacked and responded to the declaration of war, we do feel that you saved us especially as Roosevelt declared that you would not get involved in Europes war. You were dragged into it and saved your own butts, no one elses, remember that. If you had not been dragged into it i might have been speaking German today, but otoh, a Germany that strong, so would you. I know it has nothing to with this thread but that always ticks me off, and the "you'd have been speaking german if not for us" idiocy stems from utter ignorance at best and known ignorance at worst.

Israel will handle this like they handled Iraqs nuclear ambitions and no, people will mostly shut up about it afterwards unless GW goes after that stip of oil, Well it is that oil that is the majority of the EU's oil.

I guess if you want to start off WW3 this would be the way to do it.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
And if Iran is committing acts of war against the US, then clearly the US and Pakistan were doing the same arming the mujahedin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, right? So, uhh, the Russians should have nuked us, right?

hey genius, the Russians did condemn our actions in Afghanistan during the 80's, even calling it an act of war.

We were doing the exact same thing in Afghanistan during the 80's that the Iranians are doing right now in Iraq.

The difference is that they are hurting Americans this time... we are on the receiving end... as in, they are attacking against our side! (or my side at least... the jury is still out as to whose side you're on...)

You seem to think that their actions are "OK" or "justified" just because we've done the same thing in other countries in the past... and that sounds an awful lot like you are siding with our enemies...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Slackware
You have 45 minutes to solve this before a mushroom cloud. (again) If you don't get it by this comment then get this, the world laughs at you acting on your fears, pissing the lifes of your soldiers away for something that at most will be a temporary victory (if you had the guts, which you don't) and most likely will just be another failure in the long list of failures of the US.

yeah, we remember how you got attacked and responded to the declaration of war, we do feel that you saved us especially as Roosevelt declared that you would not get involved in Europes war. You were dragged into it and saved your own butts, no one elses, remember that. If you had not been dragged into it i might have been speaking German today, but otoh, a Germany that strong, so would you. I know it has nothing to with this thread but that always ticks me off, and the "you'd have been speaking german if not for us" idiocy stems from utter ignorance at best and known ignorance at worst.

talk about ungrateful... jesus...

Do you honestly believe that Europe could have beat the Germans without any help from the U.S.? seriously? do you know anything at all about WWII? seriously... anything?!

I'm from Europe But I'm still disgusted by your arrogance and ignorance

bah.. what a bunch of EuroTrash crap...

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Slackware
You have 45 minutes to solve this before a mushroom cloud. (again) If you don't get it by this comment then get this, the world laughs at you acting on your fears, pissing the lifes of your soldiers away for something that at most will be a temporary victory (if you had the guts, which you don't) and most likely will just be another failure in the long list of failures of the US.

yeah, we remember how you got attacked and responded to the declaration of war, we do feel that you saved us especially as Roosevelt declared that you would not get involved in Europes war. You were dragged into it and saved your own butts, no one elses, remember that. If you had not been dragged into it i might have been speaking German today, but otoh, a Germany that strong, so would you. I know it has nothing to with this thread but that always ticks me off, and the "you'd have been speaking german if not for us" idiocy stems from utter ignorance at best and known ignorance at worst.

talk about ungrateful... jesus...

do you know anything at all about WWII? seriously... anything?!

I belive i know more than you do. Your statememt does not help, and if you are prepared to say that Roosevlet declared war on ANYONE before he got his ass handed to him in one attack and one war declaration you are the ONLY one stupid enough to clim that, that he gave a radio speech a week before declaring that the US was not going to get involved in europes war does not help your case either.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Slackware
You have 45 minutes to solve this before a mushroom cloud. (again) If you don't get it by this comment then get this, the world laughs at you acting on your fears, pissing the lifes of your soldiers away for something that at most will be a temporary victory (if you had the guts, which you don't) and most likely will just be another failure in the long list of failures of the US.

yeah, we remember how you got attacked and responded to the declaration of war, we do feel that you saved us especially as Roosevelt declared that you would not get involved in Europes war. You were dragged into it and saved your own butts, no one elses, remember that. If you had not been dragged into it i might have been speaking German today, but otoh, a Germany that strong, so would you. I know it has nothing to with this thread but that always ticks me off, and the "you'd have been speaking german if not for us" idiocy stems from utter ignorance at best and known ignorance at worst.

talk about ungrateful... jesus...

Do you honestly believe that Europe could have beat the Germans without any help from the U.S.? seriously? do you know anything at all about WWII? seriously... anything?!

I'm from Europe But I'm still disgusted by your arrogance and ignorance

bah.. what a bunch of EuroTrash crap...

you edited and added and to that i will respond.

One would assume that an experienced soldier like you would be less hesitant to make a fool out of himslelf but apparently not.

Not everyghing is at it seems and you would have to salute me if we passed eachother or i could have you punished for not doing so, you do know what that means?

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm not siding with our enemies, at all, Palehorse74. I'm just pointing out that the mock innocence and piety is totally lame... and that Soviet attacks on Pakistani territory weren't justifiable, or ever undertaken. It certainly wouldn't have increased their chances of meeting their objectives, and neither will attacking the Iranians increase our chances in Iraq. We've got enough trouble trying to subdue a nation of 30M without adding another 70M into the equation...

So, uhh, how DID two guys turn into thousands, anyway?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Slackware
Not everyghing is at it seems and you would have to salute me if we passed eachother or i could have you punished for not doing so, you do know what that means?

First, I can guarantee that I would never have to salute you. I am 100% sure of that.

Second, I am a student of history -- especially the history of modern warfare -- and you most certainly would be speaking German if it were not for the US Army. Period.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I'm not siding with our enemies, at all, Palehorse74. I'm just pointing out that the mock innocence and piety is totally lame... and that Soviet attacks on Pakistani territory weren't justifiable, or ever undertaken. It certainly wouldn't have increased their chances of meeting their objectives, and neither will attacking the Iranians increase our chances in Iraq. We've got enough trouble trying to subdue a nation of 30M without adding another 70M into the equation...

So, uhh, how DID two guys turn into thousands, anyway?

1) I sincerely hope that we do not go to war with Iran, even though they have committed many acts of war against us.

2) The number of Iranians involved is irrelevant. I exaggerated a bit, but I'm damn sure the number is closer to 1000 than 2.

3) I hope Iran stops enriching nuclear materials. If they do not, then I hope that Israel takes out their nuclear research capabilities...completely. Above all, I hope that the U.S. stays as much out of it as possible. while Iran deserves everything we'd do to them, I do not wish to see another front open in this war.

g'day.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Slackware
Not everyghing is at it seems and you would have to salute me if we passed eachother or i could have you punished for not doing so, you do know what that means?

I can guarantee that I would never have to salute you.

I am a student of history; especially the history of modern warfare -- you most certainly would be speaking German if it were not for the USA. Period.

You'd have to salute me if we met because i outrank you, it's not harder than that.

Now, heh, no one in the entire world would insinuate that the US actually won the war, except someone who has never ever been in the armed forces... wait a minute... wait a minute, you are a fraud aren't you?

So ye are saying that the US'S very latte entence in the war when the Wehrmacht was already defeated on two fronts did all that much?

The US ONLY got involved because the US had to get involved when a world power declares war on you and bombs you you cannot say .. un, no thank you very much dear sir now can you.. and Roosevelt made it VERY clear just one week before that the US had no intention of getting involved, if they had not declared war on you you would not have come.

And no you did not save my arse you ignorant SOB, i wasn't even born and my parents were not in Europe.

You are by far the most arrogant idiot i have ever come across though, do yo take pride in that? And you can call me Sir.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Slackware
You'd have to salute me if we met because i outrank you, it's not harder than that.

That is absolutely false. I cannot and will not tell you why. Just know that you are wrong.

blah blah blah... And you can call me Sir.

I don't f*ckin think so. The things I'd like to call you would get me banned around here.

Enjoy your little revisionist version of WWII... dude.

auf wiedersehen.

ps: Europe got its ass kicked until we showed up.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Slackware
You'd have to salute me if we met because i outrank you, it's not harder than that.

That is absolutely false. I cannot and will not tell you why. Just know that you are wrong.

blah blah blah... And you can call me Sir.

I don't f*ckin think so. The things I'd like to call you would get me banned around here.

Enjoy your little revisionist version of WWII... dude.

auf wiedersehen.

ps: Europe got its ass kicked until we showed up.

And by that you have effectively given up your little charade that you ar in fact in the military.

And it's funny that you just go to blah blah blah when you cannot respond at all, because that is what i find lying arrogant Americans to do the most. (and yeah, forgot, everyone speaking german, ich Spreche Deutch. you are pathetic.

So since you are not in the military by admittance, should we call you captain counterstrike from now on or what would you prefer?

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Slackware
You'd have to salute me if we met because i outrank you, it's not harder than that.

That is absolutely false. I cannot and will not tell you why. Just know that you are wrong.

blah blah blah... And you can call me Sir.

I don't f*ckin think so. The things I'd like to call you would get me banned around here.

Enjoy your little revisionist version of WWII... dude.

auf wiedersehen.

ps: Europe got its ass kicked until we showed up.

Just so i get this straight, you hate me for what, name one thing i ever said that was not true, you can't, it's impossible, Roosevelts speach is well documented and you can even find recordings of it, it is absolute trut every word that i have said.

That is ALL that i have said.



Your rank... btw... you don't have a rank do you?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Slackware
So since you are not in the military by admittance, should we call you captain counterstrike from now on or what would you prefer?

I never said that I am not in the military. I am, in fact, in the US Army Reserves.

That said, I can also guarantee that I would not have to salute you. Since you have spent your last 10 posts insulting me with every conceivable curse, I'll take that as a sign that you must be a genius.

Therefore, being a genius and all, you should have no problem racking your brain and coming up with a good reason as to why I would still never have to salute you -- even though I am in the Army Reserves. In fact, I am an E6, and I would still never have to salute you, regardless of your rank in whatever military you are in!

Come on, I know you can figure it out if you try!

best of luck to ya... dude!

regarding WWII:
What does Roosevelt's plans to not get involved in the war in Europe have to do with the reality that the US did get involved and save Europe's ass along with our own? The bottom line is that Europe got raped before we showed up to help push Hitler's forces all the way back to Germany. If we hadn't of been brought into the war, those in the Netherlands really would be speaking German right now and saluting Der Fuhrer.

Roosevelt's original intentions and his speech are irrelevant to the outcome.

back OT:
Iran will ultimately lose their nuclear research facilities... one way or another.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Slackware
So since you are not in the military by admittance, should we call you captain counterstrike from now on or what would you prefer?

I never said that I am not in the military. I am, in fact, in the US Army Reserves.

That said, I can also guarantee that I would not have to salute you. Since you have spent your last 10 posts insulting me with every conceivable curse, I'll take that as a sign that you must be a genius.

Therefore, being a genius and all, you should have no problem racking your brain and coming up with a good reason as to why I would still never have to salute you -- even though I am in the Army Reserves.

Come on, I know you can figure out if you try!

best of luck to ya... dude!

back OT:
Iran will ultimately lose their nuclear research facilities... one way or another.

Oh you would have to salute me since i outrank you, the rest is just your imagination playing pranks on your fvcked up brain, aside from that and this will be the last post i make in this thread.

Israel will fix Irans nuclear ambitions, i don't know what you think about that but i'll be on the ground (i'm no pilot) supporting the mission on ground.

Anyway, i'm going to bed, yayayaya whatever hooorah. i'll see you on the ground.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Slackware
Oh you would have to salute me since i outrank you,

actually, no, i would not have to salute you. you still don't get it...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Slackware
Oh you would have to salute me since i outrank you,

actually, no, i would not have to salute you. you still don't get it...

He has no arms. Look at his icon.

 

[Aimster]

There is no proof to condemn Iran for their actions

You obviously fail to see Iran is not an Arab country. Just like Turkey is not an Arab country.
Exactly why you have almost zero evidence suggesting anyone in those countries is involved in anything major going on inside Iraq.

The only people who keeep saying "I have no doubt" "I know' are nothing more than opinions based on "well they are the same color skin and religion they have to be involved". Yeah, OK.

Nobody has shown any credible evidence to suggest Iran is up to anything inside Iraq. It isnt hard to prove it.

if Iran had this much influence on Arabs, they wouldnt have had saddam stay in power so long. They would have won the war they fought with the arabs for years.

The majority of attacks against U.S troops is coming from foreign fighters (which are not Iranaians) and Sunnis who were loyal to Saddam (again not part of Iran's interest). So.... yeah Iran is arming the people against them to kill U.S and Shia Muslims.
"rolls eyes"

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Nice selective quote, dna- your usual appeal to the lazy. I offered up the wiki piece in its entirety, just so people could understand the more subtle possibilities of translation...

Wiped of the map, vanish from the pages of history -- spin as much as you like.
At the end of the day talk is cheap, and their actions speak louder than words: they armed and trained Hezbollah, which during the last conflict targetted civilians pretty much exclusively, while their declarations aren't much better.

I invite you to cut and paste anything that might prove your point, but you probably would've done that from the start if it were possible.

In japanese, "holysh!t" has been translated as "God excrement", with an accompanying change of meaning...

What an amazing analogy -- I'm convinced!

About like Gaza, I'd suspect ...

Now you're just lying to yourself.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Slackware
You have 45 minutes to solve this before a mushroom cloud. (again) If you don't get it by this comment then get this, the world laughs at you acting on your fears, pissing the lifes of your soldiers away for something that at most will be a temporary victory (if you had the guts, which you don't) and most likely will just be another failure in the long list of failures of the US.

yeah, we remember how you got attacked and responded to the declaration of war, we do feel that you saved us especially as Roosevelt declared that you would not get involved in Europes war. You were dragged into it and saved your own butts, no one elses, remember that. If you had not been dragged into it i might have been speaking German today, but otoh, a Germany that strong, so would you. I know it has nothing to with this thread but that always ticks me off, and the "you'd have been speaking german if not for us" idiocy stems from utter ignorance at best and known ignorance at worst.

Israel will handle this like they handled Iraqs nuclear ambitions and no, people will mostly shut up about it afterwards unless GW goes after that stip of oil, Well it is that oil that is the majority of the EU's oil.

I guess if you want to start off WW3 this would be the way to do it.

I hate to break it to you buddy but the US was keeping the allies afloat before Pearl Harbor and that includes the Russians also. American sailors and merchantmen were dying in the fight against Germany long before Dec 7 1941.

Do some more reading before spewing your lightweight analysis.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Slackware
Now, heh, no one in the entire world would insinuate that the US actually won the war, except someone who has never ever been in the armed forces... wait a minute... wait a minute, you are a fraud aren't you?

So ye are saying that the US'S very latte entence in the war when the Wehrmacht was already defeated on two fronts did all that much?

Hmm I guess I could spend all day re-educating you but it would be of little value. Germany was in no way defeated or losing or anything of the sort when the US entered the war.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Slackware
Now, heh, no one in the entire world would insinuate that the US actually won the war, except someone who has never ever been in the armed forces... wait a minute... wait a minute, you are a fraud aren't you?

So ye are saying that the US'S very latte entence in the war when the Wehrmacht was already defeated on two fronts did all that much?

Hmm I guess I could spend all day re-educating you but it would be of little value. Germany was in no way defeated or losing or anything of the sort when the US entered the war.

It?s part of the revisionist history to demonize America. We couldn?t have done anything good, for that would get in the way of hating the US.

As for Iran. The American liberals are convinced we?re the aggressors. That Islamic radicals who have sworn to kill us are innocence. That Iran, like North Korea, will never have nuclear weapons, and even if they do that it is their right to arm themselves against us.

The only solace that I may find in this wide spread anti American ideology is that it is suicide. One needs to only neutralize us long enough for the consequences to rectify these delusions.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Jaskalas said:

It?s part of the revisionist history to demonize America. We couldn?t have done anything good, for that would get in the way of hating the US.

As for Iran. The American liberals are convinced we?re the aggressors. That Islamic radicals who have sworn to kill us are innocence. That Iran, like North Korea, will never have nuclear weapons, and even if they do that it is their right to arm themselves against us.

The only solace that I may find in this wide spread anti American ideology is that it is suicide. One needs to only neutralize us long enough for the consequences to rectify these delusions.

So much easier to bleat about complexity and options and milestones and "catastrophic consequences," and to berate those who do not share their self-generated paranoia and paralysis.

Feeling sorry for yourself is so Serious.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Slackware
Now, heh, no one in the entire world would insinuate that the US actually won the war, except someone who has never ever been in the armed forces... wait a minute... wait a minute, you are a fraud aren't you?

So ye are saying that the US'S very latte entence in the war when the Wehrmacht was already defeated on two fronts did all that much?

Hmm I guess I could spend all day re-educating you but it would be of little value. Germany was in no way defeated or losing or anything of the sort when the US entered the war.

It?s part of the revisionist history to demonize America. We couldn?t have done anything good, for that would get in the way of hating the US.

As for Iran. The American liberals are convinced we?re the aggressors. That Islamic radicals who have sworn to kill us are innocence. That Iran, like North Korea, will never have nuclear weapons, and even if they do that it is their right to arm themselves against us.

The only solace that I may find in this wide spread anti American ideology is that it is suicide. One needs to only neutralize us long enough for the consequences to rectify these delusions.

Aside from being a bit ignorant, I haven't seen any direct 'demonization' of America here. In WW2, of which I have read probably 150+ books from many authors in 3 difference languages :

(1)- The US supplied significant material support to the allies previous to our official entry into the war, in every important aspect. This was crucial to the UK and Russia in particular to hang on through the most severe Axis onslaught of '39-'41.

(2)- After the US officially entered the war, the single greatest contribution we made in pure military terms was the defeat of Imperial Japan. Our African and European campaigns were secondary to the incredible effort underaken by the Soviet Union for victory in that region. This is not meant as even the slightest disrespect to the incredible sacrifice and effort made by our soldiers who fought on that front. This is just a real assessment that the cream of the german Wehrmacht, including the best Panzer divisions, bled almost completely to death on the Eastern Front. The Western front, while retaining some core veteran elements, was a ghost of the original strength of the Nazis in '39-'41. Much of what the US ground forces fought were critically underfed, undersupplied, undertrained Volktsturm and fresh recruits mixed with wounded vets. It was a farce for Germany to stay in the war after the Eastern front began to collapse. The Red Army mobilized tens of millions in the armed forces and direct war support system. The Russians suffered 23 million casualties during this period.

Can you tie the dots together and come to the conclusion that WW2 was an allied victory directly because of US involvement? I think you can. But of course, we were just a single factor in this most massive of historical engagements. If the Soviets were out of the picture, there would have been an almost certain victory for the Nazis, as the immense oil, food, and other natural resources of the region would have made for an industrial potential that would unmatchable. Once you throw in the nuclear weapons element, things get very interesting. All of these alternative possibilities are of course entirely theoretical, but fun to think about and discuss in any case.

As for Iran, I think it's disingenous to suggest that 'liberals' view the Islamic nutjobs over there as 'innocent'. But I think pragmatism is the key here, being able to look at things both objectively and honestly for the pure complexity that exists there. Ahmedinejad was recently censured more or less for his foreign policy hostility, and there is a real movement away from the hardline islamic path to be seen in such an action. They want him up for removal from his position ahead of time, a quick google search will show what I'm describing here.

The radical islamic movement is *not* dominant in the region, and if you were looking for the hotbed of anti-western sentiment, you would not find it in Iran, or Syria, or even Iraq. You would find it in Pakistan. Yet even there, in the most directly anti-western population on earth (remember the images of people burning effigies of anything American after 9/11? That was Pakistan), it is primarily the ignorant poor who are manipulated by evil religious and political leaders. The more developed and educated core to the policy of the countries involved are not interested in the radical policy, because it's so economically and socially useless.

You've been watching too much Glenn Beck and other fearful loonies. Radical Islam is only a real threat to the countries which host such nutjobs. Besides, even if Iran was able to produce a nuclear device, they are surrounded by countries tens of times more powerful than they are, in both conventional, biological, chemical, and conventional terms. Countries which wouldn't take kindly to WW3 being started on their doorstep.

The real risk is the economic damage our country would incur if a full-scale ME regional nuclear war broke out. Energy prices would go up several hundred percent immediately, and skyrocket out of range quickly. Remember the German inflation after WW1? It would be in that neighborhood.

But go back to your infotainment sound-bite right-wing fearfactory shows, and hide under your bed because big bad Islam is coming for you, if that's what you want to do. We have MUCH more important things to worry about.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

How do the movement conservitive warmongers reconcile their desire to turn Iran into a glass parking lot with their claims that the average Iranians would support us and our desire for regime change? I can't see their students demonstrating against the Ayatollah with signs supporting massive US bombing campaigns.

Should we believe these fascists and decide that this is all, in fact, an unavoidable "war" between two civilizations? A "war" so desperate that one civilization will eventually reign supreme and the other perish?If it is to be that kind of war, then it comes down to WHO will be willing to pay the greater price?. Do you people really believe it will be the U.S.?