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'Iran will blow up the heart of Israel'

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Lemon Law

The US does not need a tank battle or a land invasion. We are not interested in controlling land; just ensure a sterile strip that forces the Iranian forces to keep their heads down.

Radar is a weak link; but time to setup, acquire and tear down is the weakest.
Shoulder fired missiles are not a threat to the Straights.

If the Straights were to be closed for a week for saturation bombing along marked installations; then CAP and recon flights can provide preliminary warning of any actions.

Given what has been seen of the Iranian Navy and the recent experience w/ the Somali equivalents; the US & allies can easily setup the same protection for tankers as was done previously. Also, countries can quickly manufacture MTBs by the dozen and get them into escort action. Iran naval forces are nothing like the Japanese in the South Pacific or the Germans in WWI along the Channel. No destroyers/cruisers; just small craft that will be torn apart by 30cal guns when detected outside the Iranian territorial waters.
 
fallout man

Do you have a list on UN resolutions against the Arabs and the Palestinians from '48 onward?
 
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
fallout man

Do you have a list on UN resolutions against the Arabs and the Palestinians from '48 onward?
Click to expand...

The ones I listed, as far as I could find, track back to 1946.

Edit: Arabs? Please name specific countries, or should I go ahead and list every UN resolution against any country where a Jew or a Persian played a role in government?

I'm asking you if you could point me to more damning resolutions against the Persians, (or if the fancy strikes you, the Israelis).

Please feel free to post the resolutions against "Arabs" yourself. Split it by country, chief.
 
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Lemon Law

The US does not need a tank battle or a land invasion. We are not interested in controlling land; just ensure a sterile strip that forces the Iranian forces to keep their heads down.

Radar is a weak link; but time to setup, acquire and tear down is the weakest.
Shoulder fired missiles are not a threat to the Straights.

If the Straights were to be closed for a week for saturation bombing along marked installations; then CAP and recon flights can provide preliminary warning of any actions.

Given what has been seen of the Iranian Navy and the recent experience w/ the Somali equivalents; the US & allies can easily setup the same protection for tankers as was done previously. Also, countries can quickly manufacture MTBs by the dozen and get them into escort action. Iran naval forces are nothing like the Japanese in the South Pacific or the Germans in WWI along the Channel. No destroyers/cruisers; just small craft that will be torn apart by 30cal guns when detected outside the Iranian territorial waters.
Click to expand...
Besides all of that, there are ways to by-pass the straits when it comes to transporting oil. Nothing near as efficient as oil tankers, but options exist.
 
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Five countries which were all gung-ho about chasing imaginary WMDs into Iraq, and you see credibility where?
Click to expand...

Oh yes, because France and Germany were so supportive of our assault on Iraq. Do you even read your own sources? 😕

Never mind the fact that a memo from the guy's own department supports said evidence.

Then again, I must remember the world is reversed to you. Majority and multi-party opinions are always one big conspiracy right? :roll:
 
If Ozoned thinks, "Besides all of that, there are ways to by-pass the straits when it comes to transporting oil. Nothing near as efficient as oil tankers, but options exist."

If options exist, I would like to hear of any. Pipe lines spring to mind, but they take years to construct, and in a week after any Persian gulf shutdown, speculators will have pushed oil prices up past a $1000/barrel. And that alone is going to rapidly disrupt every oil based economy in the world without ready access to their own oil. As inflation does the rest.

But as I mentioned previously, no one can predict exactly what ways the Iranians will retaliate. But I have barely even g begin to think about all the other ways Iran has to make the Israel and a possibly complicit US pay the price.

But I still cannot believe all the fan boys who cling to the delusion that Israel can spank Iran and get away with it with out some extremely nasty or fatal consequences. But evidently these Israel can do anything with total impunity delusions die hard.

As it is, Israel is skating on very thin ice already, and outside of the US, they do not have much international support. A few European countries who think they can make money on the current situation play along now, but as soon as Israel loses them billions by some purely delusional action, they will rapidly change their minds.

As for me, I am just an ordinary US taxpayer who is sick and tired of paying for other peoples mistakes, the mid-east is screwed up enough already, without more delusional idiots screwing it up worse.

 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
If Ozoned thinks, "Besides all of that, there are ways to by-pass the straits when it comes to transporting oil. Nothing near as efficient as oil tankers, but options exist."

If options exist, I would like to hear of any. Pipe lines spring to mind, but they take years to construct, and in a week after any Persian gulf shutdown, speculators will have pushed oil prices up past a $1000/barrel. And that alone is going to rapidly disrupt every oil based economy in the world without ready access to their own oil. As inflation does the rest.

But as I mentioned previously, no one can predict exactly what ways the Iranians will retaliate. But I have barely even g begin to think about all the other ways Iran has to make the Israel and a possibly complicit US pay the price.

But I still cannot believe all the fan boys who cling to the delusion that Israel can spank Iran and get away with it with out some extremely nasty or fatal consequences. But evidently these Israel can do anything with total impunity delusions die hard.

As it is, Israel is skating on very thin ice already, and outside of the US, they do not have much international support. A few European countries who think they can make money on the current situation play along now, but as soon as Israel loses them billions by some purely delusional action, they will rapidly change their minds.

As for me, I am just an ordinary US taxpayer who is sick and tired of paying for other peoples mistakes, the mid-east is screwed up enough already, without more delusional idiots screwing it up worse.
Click to expand...

As has been repeatably proven (at least in theory), Iran is militarily incapable of shutting down the gulf beyond their immediate coastline.

Even if you were right and shoulder fired missiles/rockets magically become a threat at the straights, fine. We can bomb the shit out of the Iranian side of the straights and otherwise provide naval protection.

And like I pointed out, Israel already took on the entire middle east and won. If you know of some way that Iran can effectively strike back at Israel with their current known weaponry, I'm listening. Point being, Israel is developed enough at this point to not need our help militarily.
 
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: Lemon law
If Ozoned thinks, "Besides all of that, there are ways to by-pass the straits when it comes to transporting oil. Nothing near as efficient as oil tankers, but options exist."

If options exist, I would like to hear of any. Pipe lines spring to mind, but they take years to construct, and in a week after any Persian gulf shutdown, speculators will have pushed oil prices up past a $1000/barrel. And that alone is going to rapidly disrupt every oil based economy in the world without ready access to their own oil. As inflation does the rest.

But as I mentioned previously, no one can predict exactly what ways the Iranians will retaliate. But I have barely even g begin to think about all the other ways Iran has to make the Israel and a possibly complicit US pay the price.

But I still cannot believe all the fan boys who cling to the delusion that Israel can spank Iran and get away with it with out some extremely nasty or fatal consequences. But evidently these Israel can do anything with total impunity delusions die hard.

As it is, Israel is skating on very thin ice already, and outside of the US, they do not have much international support. A few European countries who think they can make money on the current situation play along now, but as soon as Israel loses them billions by some purely delusional action, they will rapidly change their minds.

As for me, I am just an ordinary US taxpayer who is sick and tired of paying for other peoples mistakes, the mid-east is screwed up enough already, without more delusional idiots screwing it up worse.
Click to expand...

As has been repeatably proven (at least in theory), Iran is militarily incapable of shutting down the gulf beyond their immediate coastline.

Even if you were right and shoulder fired missiles/rockets magically become a threat at the straights, fine. We can bomb the shit out of the Iranian side of the straights and otherwise provide naval protection.

And like I pointed out, Israel already took on the entire middle east and won. If you know of some way that Iran can effectively strike back at Israel with their current known weaponry, I'm listening. Point being, Israel is developed enough at this point to not need our help militarily.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they're so totally ripped, man. Do you know what kind of supplement they're using? They won't talk to me about it. I'm just so fucking hard for those abs, though.

Edit: (no homo)
 
For one of the biggest delusions, its hard to beat the Common Courtesy one of " The US does not need a tank battle or a land invasion. We are not interested in controlling land; just ensure a sterile strip that forces the Iranian forces to keep their heads down.

Even if we only assume that sterile strip is only 200 miles wide times 500 miles of Iranian coastline, that is 100,000 square miles to patrol 24/7/365. That is a huge area and the US simply does not have that much thermal imaging equipment for that big of an area. And you think small Iranian detachments can't reach caches of pre buried missiles or decoy down US planes into the teeth of shoulder fired ground to air missiles. The Israelis tried that air support thing against Hezbollah fighters with little success, and in far fewer number of square miles in 2005. And Hezbollah did not even have ground to air missiles. And if Iranians were willing to march into the machine gun fire of Iraqi tanks armed with only rifles, they will be willing to risk their lives to take out 1000 ft oil tankers armed with much better missiles.

 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
For one of the biggest delusions, its hard to beat the Common Courtesy one of " The US does not need a tank battle or a land invasion. We are not interested in controlling land; just ensure a sterile strip that forces the Iranian forces to keep their heads down.

Even if we only assume that sterile strip is only 200 miles wide times 500 miles of Iranian coastline, that is 100,000 square miles to patrol 24/7/365. That is a huge area and the US simply does not have that much thermal imaging equipment for that big of an area. And you think small Iranian detachments can't reach caches of pre buried missiles or decoy down US planes into the teeth of shoulder fired ground to air missiles. The Israelis tried that air support thing against Hezbollah fighters with little success, and in far fewer number of square miles in 2005. And Hezbollah did not even have ground to air missiles. And if Iranians were willing to march into the machine gun fire of Iraqi tanks armed with only rifles, they will be willing to risk their lives to take out 1000 ft oil tankers armed with much better missiles.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about planes? Drones are near silent, have a ridiculously small radar signature and are nearly invisible from the ground in broad daylight. Predators can specifically stay aloft for 40 hours straight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYeYlXfzGew

Besides, anything on the Iranian coast is instantly vulnerable to missile strikes from our Navy. All you need is a drone or observation team to mark the target. Most likely the former.
 
Irish Scott has a new delusion of "We can bomb the shit out of the Iranian side of the straights and otherwise provide naval protection."

And we better have that naval protection in place beforehand. Giving Iran all the warning they need. Ship don't exactly move fast, if not already in place beforehand. And riddle me this, how long does it take to bomb 100,000 square miles of Iran , not just once, but repeatedly. Its very dangerous to be near an exploding bomb, but once the dust settles 10 seconds later, all you have is a harmless bomb crater. Dirt is not exactly Rummy's version of a high value target. Are there even enough bombs in the world to do that?

And will the UN, China , or Russia simply let that happen. They will figure they are next instead. They don't even have to fire a shot, they will just quit lending the US money and watch the US economy implode.

Don't you even think above the roar of your own crowd.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Irish Scott has a new delusion of "We can bomb the shit out of the Iranian side of the straights and otherwise provide naval protection."

And we better have that naval protection in place beforehand. Giving Iran all the warning they need. Ship don't exactly move fast, if not already in place beforehand. And riddle me this, how long does it take to bomb 100,000 square miles of Iran , not just once, but repeatedly. Its very dangerous to be near an exploding bomb, but once the dust settles 10 seconds later, all you have is a harmless bomb crater. Dirt is not exactly Rummy's version of a high value target. Are there even enough bombs in the world to do that?

And will the UN, China , or Russia simply let that happen. They will figure they are next instead. They don't even have to fire a shot, they will just quit lending the US money and watch the US economy implode.

Don't you even think above the roar of your own crowd.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about 100,000 miles? I said the Iranian side of the straights not the gulf.

And when did I suggest carpet bombing?

The Straights of Hormuz are the only area where shoulder fired missiles could theoretically become a problem, and I'm just saying that for argument's sake. At their narrowest the straights are 29 nautical miles wide. Pretty sure there isn't a shoulder fired missile with anything resembling that range.

Obviously any major naval protection will be a reactionary response. Like I said, Iran could wreck some serious damage early on, but it'd be a losing battle from day 1. Also, even if Iran could (in some very weird universe) "close the gulf", then guess what? It's Iran's fault that the world economy takes a hit. Who do you think the world will go after? Or are you saying that Iran can magically hold the gulf hostage and the world will swoon, wipe Israel off the map and beg the Ayatollah's forgiveness? :roll:

And you say I have delusions. The US couldn't hold the world hostage militarily if it wanted to, yet you suggest that Iran, solely due to its position on the Persian gulf, can; even with the military intervention of at least the most powerful nation on the planet. Nevermind other countries becoming involved as their interests are directly threatened.

Iran cannot successfully stand alone against Israel+US+X militarily. It can wreck some damage, it could fuck things up for a while, but it would inevitably get ripped a new one.
 
Among the delusion that drones are all that effective, they have hardly prevented the Taliban from over running 80 % of Afghanistan. Now the new Irish Scott delusion that the countries of the world would side with the US and Israel in any rape of Iran.

All the US would become is the new Nazi Germany, and a mad dog requiring mutual world action to stop. God save me from Nuts like you, you probably thought GWB was correct when he said Iraq would cost 50 billion tops and be ever so easy.

And long before any US naval floatilla came into range, Iran would probably blow up every oil terminal on the Persian gulf. And that alone would take months to fix. While they flooded the zone in Iraq and Afghanistan with shoulder fired missiles pinning down every US land based vehicle in Iraq and Afghanistan.

All kinds of wars are started by idiots who think they will win it in a week. How many times have they been proven right historically.
Iraq and Afghanistan are already way more than the US can chew, and now you think Iran will be easier?????????????????????????
 
It is going to happen. People who defend Iran will be on the wrong side of history.

When it does happen, I would suggest to Iran to do the same thing Iraq and Syria did....nothing (at least to the US. They would have a right to attack Israel). Unless they want to fall 15 feet through a trap door like Saddam did.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Among the delusion that drones are all that effective, they have hardly prevented the Taliban from over running 80 % of Afghanistan. Now the new Irish Scott delusion that the countries of the world would side with the US and Israel in any rape of Iran.

All the US would become is the new Nazi Germany, and a mad dog requiring mutual world action to stop. God save me from Nuts like you, you probably thought GWB was correct when he said Iraq would cost 50 billion tops and be ever so easy.

And long before any US naval floatilla came into range, Iran would probably blow up every oil terminal on the Persian gulf. And that alone would take months to fix. While they flooded the zone in Iraq and Afghanistan with shoulder fired missiles pinning down every US land based vehicle in Iraq and Afghanistan.

All kinds of wars are started by idiots who think they will win it in a week. How many times have they been proven right historically.
Iraq and Afghanistan are already way more than the US can chew, and now you think Iran will be easier?????????????????????????
Click to expand...

We're definitely on two different wavelengths here. I'm talking containment and protection, you're talking an all-out invasion of Iran, which admittedly probably wouldn't happen, and won't need to happen.

If Iran attacks the US as a "response" to Israel (proving that they lack the capability to respond to Israel in the first place), then we'll be defending ourselves. The Israeli high command does not take orders from Obama. The fact that Iran sticks their fingers in their ears about it changes nothing. How the hell will we be seen as Nazis then? The only possible invasion of Iran would be a counter-invasion.

And drones are that effective. That's why we have a shitload of them flying around Iraq and Afghanistan right now. TMK they're responsible for most of the minor air-support. And small guerrilla groups quickly lose the advantage in the desert with no caves, tunnels or real cover from the air.

Long before any US naval flotilla comes into range? The 5th fleet is right fucking there at this very second. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Fifth_Fleet

Of particular note should be the task forces who's missions are protecting the straights of hormuz and Iraqi oil infrastructure. They patrol the entire gulf for crying out loud.

And flood Iraq and Afghanistan with shoulder fired missiles? Lol yeah. Do you have any idea of the logistics of such an operation? We're not talking a few scattered intelligence ops slipped over the border, but a whole army of squads armed with small arms and light AT, carrying, from the sound of it, nothing more than the equipment on their backs. A scattered human wave into the desert. R O T F L O L.

It might work if they could live off the land. They can't. This isn't the Ender's Shadow series.

I never said it would be over in a week, and I actually disagreed with Iraq. But Iran cannot win militarily. Suffice to say this bickering is pointless. I figure we'll find out soon enough.
 
Earth to OCguy, Iran can just flood Iraq and Afghanistan with weapons and let them take the USA down. Since no ground based vehicles could move, we would have to air lift all our troops out and forget the material.

Perfectly legal by proxy war rules.

Nor will the rest of the world support a mad dog USA, you must think GWB is still President and Cheney is calling the shots. That era is so over its not even funny.

If anything, a President Obama will personally order US planes shoot down any Israeli jets long before they reach Iran. Thus averting a crisis. Even GWB drove away any Israeli jets daring to encroach on Iraqi air space.

Meanwhile Israel can scream shrilly but they carry a very small stick. Iran is simply too big, too far away, and their facilities are too numerous and deeply buried for Israel to even dent. Unless Israel is willing to use nukes, causing every member of the nuclear club to end the existence of Israel for daring the unthinkable. Just to have the range, Israeli planes must sacrifice all offensive and defensive missiles just to carry the bomb weight. If Iran tries to overfly Turkey using a longer route, I doubt Turkey would permit it. The Turkish people would go ballistic and the Turkish leadership well knows it.

Besides, Israel already faces international war crimes charges, that should put them on probation at a minimum while keeping them on their best behavior.

The only people who are on the wrong side of history are those that think Israel and the USA can get away with anything.

We already have two expensive quagmires already and I will be damned if I will passively allow idiots to get us into more quagmires.
 
Nor do I defend Iran, I just point out the range of Iranian options.

We went ballistic when we got sucker punched by 911, why should we assume Iran will not go ballistic too.

And here we are in the USA after 911, some of us now have the wisdom to see we over emotionally reacted, and all we have now is two quagmires to show for it. And now some of you think Iran will act rationally if sucker punched. People are still people all over the world.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Earth to OCguy, Iran can just flood Iraq and Afghanistan with weapons and let them take the USA down. Since no ground based vehicles could move, we would have to air lift all our troops out and forget the material.

Perfectly legal by proxy war rules.

Nor will the rest of the world support a mad dog USA, you must think GWB is still President and Cheney is calling the shots. That era is so over its not even funny.

If anything, a President Obama will personally order US planes shoot down any Israeli jets long before they reach Iran. Thus averting a crisis. Even GWB drove away any Israeli jets daring to encroach on Iraqi air space.

Meanwhile Israel can scream shrilly but they carry a very small stick. Iran is simply too big, too far away, and their facilities are too numerous and deeply buried for Israel to even dent. Unless Israel is willing to use nukes, causing every member of the nuclear club to end the existence of Israel for daring the unthinkable. Just to have the range, Israeli planes must sacrifice all offensive and defensive missiles just to carry the bomb weight. If Iran tries to overfly Turkey using a longer route, I doubt Turkey would permit it. The Turkish people would go ballistic and the Turkish leadership well knows it.

Besides, Israel already faces international war crimes charges, that should put them on probation at a minimum while keeping them on their best behavior.

The only people who are on the wrong side of history are those that think Israel and the USA can get away with anything.

We already have two expensive quagmires already and I will be damned if I will passively allow idiots to get us into more quagmires.
Click to expand...

After your last two posts, arguing with you has become pointless. I hope Iran places you in charge of their military.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Earth to OCguy, Iran can just flood Iraq and Afghanistan with weapons and let them take the USA down. Since no ground based vehicles could move, we would have to air lift all our troops out and forget the material.

Perfectly legal by proxy war rules.

Nor will the rest of the world support a mad dog USA, you must think GWB is still President and Cheney is calling the shots. That era is so over its not even funny.

If anything, a President Obama will personally order US planes shoot down any Israeli jets long before they reach Iran. Thus averting a crisis. Even GWB drove away any Israeli jets daring to encroach on Iraqi air space.

Meanwhile Israel can scream shrilly but they carry a very small stick. Iran is simply too big, too far away, and their facilities are too numerous and deeply buried for Israel to even dent. Unless Israel is willing to use nukes, causing every member of the nuclear club to end the existence of Israel for daring the unthinkable. Just to have the range, Israeli planes must sacrifice all offensive and defensive missiles just to carry the bomb weight. If Iran tries to overfly Turkey using a longer route, I doubt Turkey would permit it. The Turkish people would go ballistic and the Turkish leadership well knows it.

Besides, Israel already faces international war crimes charges, that should put them on probation at a minimum while keeping them on their best behavior.

The only people who are on the wrong side of history are those that think Israel and the USA can get away with anything.

We already have two expensive quagmires already and I will be damned if I will passively allow idiots to get us into more quagmires.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, if they somehow found themselves with a pair of these on hand. 😉
 
I just can't take it anymore.

LL:

WTF do you think would happen to Iran if they indeed tried to shut down the Straight, and/or, blow up tankers?

Do you seriously think any major player in the world would get in the way of the US, who we all know is going to be the one to un-F that clusterf*ck, when the US starts progressively making life really tough on Iran?

Monitor 100k sq. mi. of land area? Why would we need to do that LL?

Why would we need to do that when we can simply send through minesweepers in front of convoys of tankers, escorted by a warship or two on the Iranian side of each tanker to take the hit of any land based surface to surface weaponry? As the convoy progresses, you shift air support along and slightly in front of that corridor of Iran that could said launch surface to surface munitions.

Convoy protection completed, and far more important to Iran than trying to make whatever misguided point they thought they were going to make, is their power plants, natural gas infrastructure, electric grid, etc. start going offline? Why would they go offline? Because, unlike Iran, the US/West can seriously F with other countries in a pointed and complete way: Witness complete and total domination of Afghanistan and Iraq with complete ease. No soldiers to get caught up in civilian populations worrying about civilian casualties and IED's, just Iran's civilians getting decidedly PO'd at whatever total F'ing morons decided to try and F with the oil flow to the rest of the world.

So, LL, please stop posting about this stuff. You clearly don't have a mind for it, and just - for whatever reason - cannot grasp it. You keep trying to make some kind of point that Iran is capable of doing more than getting the sh1t kicked out of it. The only thing that will happen is what happened to the other ME countries when they tried to F with Israel: They had to go crying to the UN when they ended up getting spanked. The End.

Chuck
 
The only reason why Iran wants nukes is because we gave them to Israel so is it are fault for this problem?
 
Originally posted by: fallout man
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Do you have a list on UN resolutions against the Arabs and the Palestinians from '48 onward?
Click to expand...
The ones I listed, as far as I could find, track back to 1946.

Edit: Arabs?
Click to expand...
Arabs constitute one monolithic mass to those who are bigoted against them, just like others talk about "the blacks" or "the Jews" and other such nonsense.

Originally posted by: irishScott
Oh yes, because France and Germany were so supportive of our assault on Iraq.
Click to expand...
They weren't as gung-ho as some, but France was supportive enough to provide fake evidence of an imaginary nuclear program, and Germany gave us curveball.

Originally posted by: irishScott
Never mind the fact that a memo from the guy's own department supports said evidence.
Click to expand...
I note the fact quoted an unsourced claim that a few piecemeal quotes from an alleged memo to buttress your argument out of a lack of any real evidence.

Originally posted by: irishScott
Majority and multi-party opinions are always one big conspiracy right?
Click to expand...
I made no clams of conspiracy, but I agree with your assessment that the facts I presented do reveal the possibility that at least some elements within said governments conspired with each other to misrepresent reality.
 
Originally posted by: sciwizam
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Earth to OCguy, Iran can just flood Iraq and Afghanistan with weapons and let them take the USA down. Since no ground based vehicles could move, we would have to air lift all our troops out and forget the material.

Perfectly legal by proxy war rules.

Nor will the rest of the world support a mad dog USA, you must think GWB is still President and Cheney is calling the shots. That era is so over its not even funny.

If anything, a President Obama will personally order US planes shoot down any Israeli jets long before they reach Iran. Thus averting a crisis. Even GWB drove away any Israeli jets daring to encroach on Iraqi air space.

Meanwhile Israel can scream shrilly but they carry a very small stick. Iran is simply too big, too far away, and their facilities are too numerous and deeply buried for Israel to even dent. Unless Israel is willing to use nukes, causing every member of the nuclear club to end the existence of Israel for daring the unthinkable. Just to have the range, Israeli planes must sacrifice all offensive and defensive missiles just to carry the bomb weight. If Iran tries to overfly Turkey using a longer route, I doubt Turkey would permit it. The Turkish people would go ballistic and the Turkish leadership well knows it.

Besides, Israel already faces international war crimes charges, that should put them on probation at a minimum while keeping them on their best behavior.

The only people who are on the wrong side of history are those that think Israel and the USA can get away with anything.

We already have two expensive quagmires already and I will be damned if I will passively allow idiots to get us into more quagmires.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, if they somehow found themselves with a pair of these on hand. 😉
Click to expand...

I don't think those will work, seeing as the US-built facilities at Natanz was designed to withstand a Soviet nuclear strike.
 
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