Iran threatens action if U.S. carrier returns

[EagleKeeper]

Well its maybe a question of who is stupid?

It should of been a piece of cake for for the USA to militarily win in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and in a jig time New York Minute if and only if the "opposition" took on the USA by playing their military weakness against US military superiority the way the USA wanted the conflict to be played out.

But funny thing, somehow the "opposition" used other tactics, and suddenly the USA grand vision of total victory took a wee mite longer than a New York Minute. And in Vietnam the US grand victory forgot to happen.

The Iranian targets if it comes to war will not be only US aircraft carriers, it will be mainly oil tankers who have to run a a 500 mile gauntlet along both sides of the Persian gulf. In all probability Iranian missiles will be mainly used to destroy Saudi port facilities leaving the Saudis without the ability to to refill oil tankers for months.

Lots of plans look so good on paper.

When the US military is told not to win, not use all the toys, and when engaged one hand must be tied behind your back; it is difficult to win.

All your examples are of politicians controlling the fighting/targeting.
Your so called gauntlet will only last for 1-2 days at the most.

Your military credibility is shot - do not try to demonstrate such with respect to Iranian capabilities.

 

[EagleKeeper]

You make some decent points LL. However, I think a naval war between Iran and and the U.S. is a little different and isnt in the same catagory as the U.S. against the Taliban IE: house to house and insurgent combat. Iran like any other country has defined borders and targets. IE: Iranian navy for starters.

Add to that fixed aviation facilities and missile sites.

Mobile launchers take between 4-8 hours to setup and fire with another 2-3 hours to tear down; as long as there is no aerial threat out of Iran, they will be fairly easy to locate and target. In the even a missile get launched; the launch facilities will easily be targeted.

What LL may call an aerial threat is more a mosquito bite.

 

[Broheim]

Well its maybe a question of who is stupid?

It should of been a piece of cake for for the USA to militarily win in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and in a jig time New York Minute if and only if the "opposition" took on the USA by playing their military weakness against US military superiority the way the USA wanted the conflict to be played out.

But funny thing, somehow the "opposition" used other tactics, and suddenly the USA grand vision of total victory took a wee mite longer than a New York Minute. And in Vietnam the US grand victory forgot to happen.

The Iranian targets if it comes to war will not be only US aircraft carriers, it will be mainly oil tankers who have to run a a 500 mile gauntlet along both sides of the Persian gulf. In all probability Iranian missiles will be mainly used to destroy Saudi port facilities leaving the Saudis without the ability to to refill oil tankers for months.

Lots of plans look so good on paper.

insurgents hiding in the general population vs. a conventional military in uniform are two completely different enemies, the Iraqi army was quickly defeated in operation iraqi freedom just like the iranian military will be if it ever comes to war simply because they aren't pussies using women and children as shields.

 

[zanejohnson]

I think people greatly overestimate our military .....just like lemon law just said....war is NEGATIVE which means.no matter what it's gonna have a negative effect on us nobody wins a a war..it's primitive ...yet we keep doing it its gonna ruin us..already is...

 

[EagleKeeper]

I think people greatly overestimate our military .....just like lemon law just said....war is NEGATIVE which means.no matter what it's gonna have a negative effect on us nobody wins a a war..it's primitive ...yet we keep doing it its gonna ruin us..already is...

overestimate our military

In what way?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I think people greatly overestimate our military .....just like lemon law just said....war is NEGATIVE which means.no matter what it's gonna have a negative effect on us nobody wins a a war..it's primitive ...yet we keep doing it its gonna ruin us..already is...

LL is wrong about the military. Militarily speaking, the US easily crushed the Iraqi army on two separate occasions (GW1 and GW2), easily overran Afghanistan, and had no problems against the NVA in Vietnam.

The problems arose when insurgencies arose (Al Qaeda, Iraqi rebels, Taliban, NVA-backed Vietcong) and the military's hands were tied by political considerations such as the infamous "Win their hearts and minds" in Afghanistan. That thought process often ignores very real societal and cultural differences which make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for that kind of approach to work. Let's use Afghanistan as our model. Do you really think it is likely that US troops can "win the hearts and minds" of Taliban fighters? The same Taliban fighters who are terrorizing the countryside and threatening the average Joe farmer and his family? The only thing people like the Taliban understand are force and the unrelenting application of it is what will drive them to negotiate. The same happened in Vietnam -- when the US finally tired of the effort and started bombing the crap out of North Vietnam, the NVA cried "uncle!" and negotiations began immediately.

 

[Dari]

Listen to all the people in this thread...they miss the point of the threat. Iran will not bomb any carriers just like the US will not provoke Iran into anything. We simply cannot afford to. Any miscalculation will sink our already-fragile economy. A prolonged conflict will sink the entire global economy. Iran is not playing war chicken, they're playing economic chicken, where their odds are better. Of course, off in the distance, Israel has a wry smile on her face because this is exactly what she wants.

 

[Jaskalas]

Listen to all the people in this thread...they miss the point of the threat. Iran will not bomb any carriers just like the US will not provoke Iran into anything. We simply cannot afford to. Any miscalculation will sink our already-fragile economy. A prolonged conflict will sink the entire global economy. Iran is not playing war chicken, they're playing economic chicken, where their odds are better. Of course, off in the distance, Israel has a wry smile on her face because this is exactly what she wants.

A prolonged conflict

The only thing prolonged is nation building. That's a task that never ends. Our morons in charge are quite fond of such heavy losses, but I assure you they are not necessary.

Military victory is another matter, and for us would be quite sudden and decisively in our favor.

 

[Genx87]

Iran is trying to push up oil prices.
And I always love the "call in the debt" argument. People really show their ignorance when they spew that line of crap.

 

[Darwin333]

You really ARE dumb.

Lets start with the "loans". I know it's hard for your brain to comprehend, but these loans are not in default. The Chinese are making loads of cash collecting interest payments on them - and they LOVE it. They would NEVER call them in, even if they could, because, again - try and use your brain, the loans have terms. You know, an agreement, a payment schedule. You can't just say "I don't want to be a bank anymore! Gimme my principle back!! Waaa Waaa Waaa". Life doesn't work that way.

Lets talk about "cheap goods" for a moment. Another area where your understanding is marginal. These "cheap goods" aren't being bought a unit at a time, they are being bought by a thousand, or a hundred thousand, or a million. These types of purchases have things called "contracts". They are so everyone knows what has been agreed to. If China decided to simply default on the contracts, what they owed in termination fees would be stellar!

Not to mention, if either of these things happened, loan interest payments stopping or factory orders stopping, China's overall revenue would drop so drastically their economy would be toast inside of 60 days, maybe less.

Next time you post, try using your brain, or have someone who has a brain post for you - or better yet stop posting altogether.

Lets get the entire China and our economy thing out of the way first. Yes, China could royally fuck our economy but (and this is a really big BUT) we are basically attached at the hip so they would also be royally fucking their own economy at the exact same time. Its almost akin to mutually assured destruction with nukes. While they can't exactly "call" our loans they could dump them on the market and stop loaning us money. This fucks them just as hard as us for a variety of reasons.

As far as China even entertaining the idea of back Iran's play if Iran decides to attack a USN CBG, puhlease. China would tell Iran that their dumbasses are on their own quick, fast, and in a damned hurry. Anyone who thinks that China would even contemplate getting into a military confrontation (or even an economic one) with the US over Iran making a hostile and unprovoked move towards a friggen US aircraft carrier in international waters is retarded.

 

[irishScott]

I hope Iran lets me know when they intend to take on a carrier battlegroup, I need to rent a helicopter and make popcorn.

 

[Darwin333]

When the US military is told not to win, not use all the toys, and when engaged one hand must be tied behind your back; it is difficult to win.

All your examples are of politicians controlling the fighting/targeting.
Your so called gauntlet will only last for 1-2 days at the most.

Your military credibility is shot - do not try to demonstrate such with respect to Iranian capabilities.

Shrug, I guess he is sorta right about Iran having the ability to at least partially destroy the Saudi's ability to refill the tankers but that would be even dumber than attacking the US CBG. Not only would they have the US destroying all of their military targets the Saudi's would likely declare war and handle most, if not all, of the ground crap (with US Navy/Air Force assistance) that we don't want to do anyway.

They might as well wait till they get a nuke and use that instead, the results for the Iranian leadership would be roughly the same but at least the nuke would cause much more (and much longer lasting) damage.

 

[Darwin333]

I think people greatly overestimate our military .....just like lemon law just said....war is NEGATIVE which means.no matter what it's gonna have a negative effect on us nobody wins a a war..it's primitive ...yet we keep doing it its gonna ruin us..already is...

Overestimate our military? Against Iran???? Really? Don't get me wrong, I have recognized the fact that Iran could hurt us economically (how much is debatable) but they will have a very small time frame to do that in before most of their .mil hardware is turned into smoking craters or sent to the bottom of the sea.

LL pointed out a tactic that would actually be rather effective but that would mean an even worse war for them with the possibility of another country leading a ground force into Iran. Obama isn't going to get us into another ground war right now regardless of what they do but if Iran was to attack their neighbor, who happens to be our ally, we would definitely play a supporting role for their ground troops.

It is suicide for Iran and as I said, if they want to commit suicide they will probably wait until they have a nuke so they can cause much more damage before they get their teeth kicked in.

 

[Darwin333]

Iran is trying to push up oil prices.

No, they aren't. They are being forced to sell their oil for less while selling less of it due to the threat of sanctions.

The people of Iran just lost 40% of their savings/paychecks due to their currency losing 40% of its value virtually overnight due to the mere threat of sanctions. They have seen huge runs on their banks and the currency exchanges have flat shut down from the people trying to convert all of their money into US dollars.

As you can imagine, the people of Iran ain't too happy right about now so Iran's leaders are trying to say whatever they can to make them angry at someone other than them and possibly get the US/world to back down on the sanctions which, as I stated above, have already economically assraped them and they aren't even in place yet.

 

[cybrsage]

Lets get the entire China and our economy thing out of the way first. Yes, China could royally fuck our economy but (and this is a really big BUT) we are basically attached at the hip so they would also be royally fucking their own economy at the exact same time. Its almost akin to mutually assured destruction with nukes. While they can't exactly "call" our loans they could dump them on the market and stop loaning us money. This fucks them just as hard as us for a variety of reasons.

As far as China even entertaining the idea of back Iran's play if Iran decides to attack a USN CBG, puhlease. China would tell Iran that their dumbasses are on their own quick, fast, and in a damned hurry. Anyone who thinks that China would even contemplate getting into a military confrontation (or even an economic one) with the US over Iran making a hostile and unprovoked move towards a friggen US aircraft carrier in international waters is retarded.

The most I can see them doing is selling Iran military hardware. Maybe even some of their experimental stuff to see how it performs against the US.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The most I can see them doing is selling Iran military hardware. Maybe even some of their experimental stuff to see how it performs against the US.

Given how the Russian equipment has been performing, China will be their only alternative.

The issue is that China has only been proven against SE Asian countries with no defenses other than man power and ancient AK from the Vietnam era.

Along with the quality of China's training programs needs to be kicked up a few notches.

 

[RPD]

I think people greatly overestimate our military .....just like lemon law just said....war is NEGATIVE which means.no matter what it's gonna have a negative effect on us nobody wins a a war..it's primitive ...yet we keep doing it its gonna ruin us..already is...

War is always going to have a negative effect? I guess we should have just laid down for those Nazi's, that would have been win/win and POSITIVE.

 

[Darwin333]

The most I can see them doing is selling Iran military hardware. Maybe even some of their experimental stuff to see how it performs against the US.

Shrug, the war would be over before Iran could get its first shipment of new hardware.

 

[Kadarin]

I think people greatly overestimate our military .....just like lemon law just said....war is NEGATIVE which means.no matter what it's gonna have a negative effect on us nobody wins a a war..it's primitive ...yet we keep doing it its gonna ruin us..already is...

That's a pretty idiotic thing to say. Throughout history, war has settled things with quite some finality: As pointed out already, WWII pretty effectively settled the Nazi Germany problem quite nicely. Charles Martel at Potiers pretty effectively stopped the Islamic conquest of Europe from the west when he defeated the Moors in the year 732. The Romans pretty effectively stopped Carthage from being a threat to Rome when they destroyed the city after the Third Punic War in 146 B.C.

The concept of going to excessive lengths to avoid collateral damage seems to me to be pretty new in human history; usually, war is extremely brutal to all involved.

Please quit talking out your ass.

 

[irishScott]

Shrug, the war would be over before Iran could get its first shipment of new hardware.

This and, from what I know of the Chinese military their primary strength is manpower with a decent dose of nationalism. Their hardware is meh and one-on-one any modern American hardware is >>>>> Chinese hardware. They still use an AK-47 variant as their general issue rifle for crying out loud. I'd take an M4 over that any day.

 

[guyver01]

I think people greatly overestimate our military ......

yet another anti-american statement from crackhead bob

 

[spacejamz]

Anyone know if the Stennis has gone back through the Straits yet?

 

[dmcowen674]

Anyone know if the Stennis has gone back through the Straits yet?

They may be waiting for another Carrier Group to arrive first.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Obama has been put in a pickle.

1) Keep Stennis out and look weak - pushed around by Iran

• Political fodder for the election being weak
• Does not ratchet up tensions in the area

2) Send Stennis back to challenge freedom of seas.

• Iran now has to stop Stennis and get bitch slapped
• Iran can eat their words and look weak to the Islamic world.

 

[spacejamz]

Obama has been put in a pickle.

1) Keep Stennis out and look weak - pushed around by Iran

• Political fodder for the election being weak
• Does not ratchet up tensions in the area

2) Send Stennis back to challenge freedom of seas.

• Iran now has to stop Stennis and get bitch slapped
• Iran can eat their words and look weak to the Islamic world.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/world_news&id=8489179

Asked whether the U.S. intends to send naval reinforcements to the Gulf in response to Iranian talk of closing its entry point at Hormuz, Little did not answer directly.

"No one in this government seeks confrontation over the Strait of Hormuz," he said. "It's important to lower the temperature."