Iran, six world powers clinch breakthrough nuclear deal

[michal1980]

iran 1, world 0.

This deal establishes that Iran has the right to make nuclear material. A right which before this deal, the world was denying them.

In exchange for being granted that right, Iran gave up exactly nothing.

How much stupider can Obama get. Every week it just gets worse and worse.

 

[yllus]

Short of a full scale invasion, Iran will attain a nuclear weapon within some reasonably short time frame. That is the starting negotiating position anyone has against them. It's very in vogue to whine about Obama being spineless/stupid/etc. on this, but that just speaks to your ignorance of what is actually achievable. Delaying is achievable - that's it.

 

[K1052]

Did anyone in here bother to look at the deal points? Iran gave quite a bit more than I thought they would.

Halt enrichment at 5%.
Dilute all stocks of enriched uranium to 5% or less.
No new centrifuges.
Render inoperable a half or more of existing centrifuges at Natanz and Fordow.
Construct nor operate any enrichment facility other than the ones covered in the above.
Halt all work on Arak reactor.
Provide IAEA extensive access to sites of interest including daily access to permitted enrichment facilities.

The sanction relief in exchange is relatively modest and completely reversible if there is any non-compliance. This deal is more about building trust with Iran before striking a long term deal.

 

[Jaskalas]

Short of a full scale invasion, Iran will attain a nuclear weapon within some reasonably short time frame. That is the starting negotiating position anyone has against them. It's very in vogue to whine about Obama being spineless/stupid/etc. on this, but that just speaks to your ignorance of what is actually achievable. Delaying is achievable - that's it.

Iran could be argued to be a strong enough country to act reasonably with nukes.

This game where we pretend we can't do anything but delay nuclear proliferation becomes much more interesting when we get closer to all nations having their own weapons. At some point a mistake is made, too many cooks in the kitchen, and MAD will fail.

Under the assumption that nuclear weapons will be used, do we just accept that fate and delay the inevitable, or do we attempt to prevent everyone and their dog from joining the party? Yes, that would absolutely entail full military invasion to destroy nuclear programs in smaller countries.

 

[K1052]

iran 1, world 0.

This deal establishes that Iran has the right to make nuclear material. A right which before this deal, the world was denying them.

In exchange for being granted that right, Iran gave up exactly nothing.

How much stupider can Obama get. Every week it just gets worse and worse.

What exactly are the alternatives besides military action which would either require a ground invasion or the use of nuclear weapons to destroy the enrichment facilities and associated installations?

The zero sum game attitude that has lately served congress so well probably shouldn't be extended to our diplomacy.

 

[fskimospy]

iran 1, world 0.

This deal establishes that Iran has the right to make nuclear material. A right which before this deal, the world was denying them.

In exchange for being granted that right, Iran gave up exactly nothing.

How much stupider can Obama get. Every week it just gets worse and worse.

False. Iran already had that right under the npt. Every week you guys look worse and worse.

 

[michal1980]

False. Iran already had that right under the npt. Every week you guys look worse and worse.

Right, Because Iran was complaint with the NPT to being withn.


Everyweek, you on the left go further and further up Mein Führer ass.

 

[michal1980]

What exactly are the alternatives besides military action which would either require a ground invasion or the use of nuclear weapons to destroy the enrichment facilities and associated installations?

The zero sum game attitude that has lately served congress so well probably shouldn't be extended to our diplomacy.

maintain sanctions. expand sanctions. Iran gave up nothing. And got plenty.

Did they have to destroy any of the machines required to make nuclear weapons? nope.

All you got in return is their word they wont be bad anymore. How stupid can the left be to believe verified liars.

 

[michal1980]

Did anyone in here bother to look at the deal points? Iran gave quite a bit more than I thought they would.

Halt enrichment at 5%.
Dilute all stocks of enriched uranium to 5% or less.
No new centrifuges.
Render inoperable a half or more of existing centrifuges at Natanz and Fordow.
Construct nor operate any enrichment facility other than the ones covered in the above.
Halt all work on Arak reactor.
Provide IAEA extensive access to sites of interest including daily access to permitted enrichment facilities.

The sanction relief in exchange is relatively modest and completely reversible if there is any non-compliance. This deal is more about building trust with Iran before striking a long term deal.

And you believe Iran will do all that?

The centrifuges will be moved. Or new ones will be made in new hidden locations. Iran just got a 6 pass for being bad, to be bad again in 6 months.

Whats the worst that will happen if they don't comply? oh no those evil sanctions will come back. But wait, Iran will say, give us 6 more months, then we will really be good. We promise.


Smoke and mirrors that the left fall for every single time.

 

[K1052]

maintain sanctions. expand sanctions. Iran gave up nothing. And got plenty.

Did they have to destroy any of the machines required to make nuclear weapons? nope.

All you got in return is their word they wont be bad anymore. How stupid can the left be to believe verified liars.

They have to render inoperable a majority of their centrifuges in a verifiable manner and keep them open to daily inspection.

Adding more sanctions would not have substantially delayed them enriching to bomb grade levels and since uranium weapons are comparatively simple to construct a working device wouldn't be that far away.

 

[K1052]

And you believe Iran will do all that?

The centrifuges will be moved. Or new ones will be made in new hidden locations. Iran just got a 6 pass for being bad, to be bad again in 6 months.

Whats the worst that will happen if they don't comply? oh no those evil sanctions will come back. But wait, Iran will say, give us 6 more months, then we will really be good. We promise.


Smoke and mirrors that the left fall for every single time.

Any of that constitutes a breach of the agreement and the limited amount of sanction relief rolls back. The end result is that the situation is no worse off than before. It's going to be hard for Iran to entirely conceal any effort to circumvent the agreement with so many interests invested in seeing the deal come apart.

 

[kage69]

I love listening to GOTP fanboys talk about diplomacy and foreign policy. Classic shit!

 

[kage69]

Every week you guys look worse and worse.

This.

I guess they're entitled to smear egg over their faces as much as they want, I'm just surprised they expect everyone else to ignore it.

 

[Anarchist420]

dont forget that nothing is guaranteed in life. obama could keel over, hillary clinton could be the next president and could bomb the fuck out of iran, iran could make a mistake in design, etc., etc.

anyway, im pleasantly surprised considering obama's neocon sympathies until now.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Any of that constitutes a breach of the agreement and the limited amount of sanction relief rolls back. The end result is that the situation is no worse off than before. It's going to be hard for Iran to entirely conceal any effort to circumvent the agreement with so many interests invested in seeing the deal come apart.

IF they inspect facility A, B, C but do not know about D & E; then what.
Iran disables 1000 Spinners; not declaring that they actually have 2000 spinners; they can only verify what is presently suspected and known.

After watching Iraq; Iran government is no fool; they are now ready to play the game ON THIER TERMS

 

[EagleKeeper]

IT will be nice if all the predications are true.

Tensions get reduced and Iranian oil hits the market. Prices come down.

Maybe Iran may even give up the terror sponsorship in the ME. Then I will believe that peace is what they desire.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

the us would be in a far stronger position to make demands on iran if 1)they hadnt installed the shah 1)they didnt have the biggest weapons of mass destruction program in the universe 3)werent invading sovereign countries all over the world

american policy around the world to label every country that doesnt bow to them a "terrorist" and to try to freeze them out of world commerce hasnt worked, its time they tried something different, obama is a genius. american policy should be based on whats good for the planet, not whats israel wants

 

[fskimospy]

Right, Because Iran was complaint with the NPT to being withn.


Everyweek, you on the left go further and further up Mein Führer ass.

Lol. Nice hitler reference. Are you trying to descend into self parody?

Regardless, fools on here thought this agreement gave them the ability to have enriched uranium despite the fact that they already had that ability. It's just yet another case (like whatever idiot thought that this had to be a treaty) that shows you guys are far more concerned with being outraged than you are about what this agreement actually entails.

Seriously, why do you guys so frequently get so angry about things without taking a few minutes to understand what you're angry about? Do you just enjoy being outraged?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Behind the scenes

 

[rudeguy]

Lol. Nice hitler reference. Are you trying to descend into self parody?

Regardless, fools on here thought this agreement gave them the ability to have enriched uranium despite the fact that they already had that ability. It's just yet another case (like whatever idiot thought that this had to be a treaty) that shows you guys are far more concerned with being outraged than you are about what this agreement actually entails.

Seriously, why do you guys so frequently get so angry about things without taking a few minutes to understand what you're angry about? Do you just enjoy being outraged?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement

 

[K1052]

IF they inspect facility A, B, C but do not know about D & E; then what.
Iran disables 1000 Spinners; not declaring that they actually have 2000 spinners; they can only verify what is presently suspected and known.

After watching Iraq; Iran government is no fool; they are now ready to play the game ON THIER TERMS

Iran has or will reach breakout capability very shortly. It will be very difficult for them to progress to weaponization without essentially taking out an ad letting everyone know. It might be possible for them to operate a secret small scale enrichment facility to acquire bomb grade material before anyone is really aware.

In short they will be joining a list of other countries that posses the technical ability and infrastructure to build a weapon on a relatively short timetable. This was going to happen regardless of other US action outside of precipitating a full scale conflict.

 

[michal1980]

Any of that constitutes a breach of the agreement and the limited amount of sanction relief rolls back. The end result is that the situation is no worse off than before. It's going to be hard for Iran to entirely conceal any effort to circumvent the agreement with so many interests invested in seeing the deal come apart.

So you agree this deal is worthless. Iran wins, the world gains nothing.

 

[K1052]

So you agree this deal is worthless. Iran wins, the world gains nothing.

No, I do not agree. If Iran holds up it's end both in letter and in spirit it could signify a major turning point in relations. I am still somewhat skeptical but it doesn't really cost us anything to play it out.

 

[fskimospy]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement

Can you guys get any more ridiculous?

Seriously, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[monovillage]

If it's not a treaty, it's not binding on the United States. You can jerk yourself off over "International Law" all you want. We saw how effective International Law and the various tribunals Harvey was constantly posting were in bringing GW Bush to "justice" and changing our foreign policy.