Iran-Nuclear Weapons

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May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: raildogg
Anyone here actually thinking from a pro-American or even an American perspective? Or are you all looking at this as internationlists and citizens of other countries? Do you really care for America's interests?

I'm not a nationalist. Nothing makes us special just because of where we're born. We're special (or not) because of how we behave - and we haven't behaved well for the last 50 years at least.

I love my country...the ideals of my country. It's why I joined the military and why I spend so much time and effort educating myself and others. That being said I don't love imperialism, I'm not egocentric, and I don't think we have one right more than any other person on the planet Earth.

I think the entire concept of 'American interests' is a euphamism for capitalist empirialism and is a major contributing factor to most bad things in existence today...ESPECIALLY Iran.
 
May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Let us look at other countries that have nukes...

China... Communist country slowly buying America's dept and implementing a long term economical warfare model vs the United States, they sell us 10$ pants
India... Vows to destroy Pakistan..in a nice lil cease fire right now..but they do take out call centers :)
Pakistan Vows to destroy India... I suppose we need software programers though....
North Korea.... Bush and Co would get there ass handed to them like in Vietnam..so we will leave them alone
France... Publicly state the will use Nuclear Weapons if they are attacked...
Israel... With the mentality of "I am taking you all with me if I go down" should they really have nukes?


I mean common guys...If the US is going to become the schoolyard supervisor on the nuke issue, lets make sure we are consistant so we don't look like a bunch of gun toting cowboys in the ME who are intent on securing oil and the good ol greenback domination!

You forgot one:

United States of America...Has publicly condemned any nation which does not stand with us in world policy, has threated use of force against many sovereign nations (and demonstrated use of force against at least one recently in an unprovoked invasion), and has generally been a world aggressor through economic if not military means for the last 5 decades.
 
May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Iran has the right to respond, no doubt about it. Any nation has the right to retaliate after being attacked, even ones unpopular to the Bush Regime and Israel.

Is Iran "popular" with you? just curious... you seem to pawn their evil nature off on the President and Israel, but how do YOU feel about Iran?

Iran is the result of American empirialism and interference. We would have had a great ally instead of a threat if we hadn't screwed everything up out of egocentrism and narrow-mindedness. Iran is 100% the product of our own stupidity. It's what we earn by allowing the CIA/government to overthrow other nations, and by allowing economic self-interest to take priority over world peace or individual freedom. Reap what you've sown America.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Iran has the right to respond, no doubt about it. Any nation has the right to retaliate after being attacked, even ones unpopular to the Bush Regime and Israel.

Is Iran "popular" with you? just curious... you seem to pawn their evil nature off on the President and Israel, but how do YOU feel about Iran?

Iran is the result of American empirialism and interference. We would have had a great ally instead of a threat if we hadn't screwed everything up out of egocentrism and narrow-mindedness. Iran is 100% the product of our own stupidity. It's what we earn by allowing the CIA/government to overthrow other nations, and by allowing economic self-interest to take priority over world peace or individual freedom. Reap what you've sown America.

oh, so it's our fault that they want to kill all Zionists and infidels?? It's our fault that they wish to wipe Israel off the map? It's our fault that they deny the Holocaust? It's our fault that their President is a religious nutcase who believes "the Return" is upon us, and that Iran will lead the Muslims in taking over the entire world?

ya... right... need more tinfoil?

fool.
 
May 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Iran has the right to respond, no doubt about it. Any nation has the right to retaliate after being attacked, even ones unpopular to the Bush Regime and Israel.

Is Iran "popular" with you? just curious... you seem to pawn their evil nature off on the President and Israel, but how do YOU feel about Iran?

Iran is the result of American empirialism and interference. We would have had a great ally instead of a threat if we hadn't screwed everything up out of egocentrism and narrow-mindedness. Iran is 100% the product of our own stupidity. It's what we earn by allowing the CIA/government to overthrow other nations, and by allowing economic self-interest to take priority over world peace or individual freedom. Reap what you've sown America.

oh, so it's our fault that they want to kill all Zionists and infidels?? It's our fault that they wish to wipe Israel off the map? It's our fault that they deny the Holocaust? It's our fault that their President is a religious nutcase who believes "the Return" is upon us, and that Iran will lead the Muslims in taking over the entire world?

ya... right... need more tinfoil?

fool.

Go read 'All the Shah's Men', then come talk to me. Devote a few months to studying about American foreign interference, then come talk to me. This is no kind of conspiracy at all, it's openly admitted US history. It's absolute total fact, plain and simple, with complete documentation to back it up. Now, rather you consider those actions 'right' or not, that's open to debate. But you can NOT deny that the current nation of Iran is the product of what America did. Period.

The ONLY reason the extremists are in power is because of America backing UK's empirial oil interests. Had we backed Mossadegh and the Iranian people, instead of corporations and autocratic governments, there would have been no subsequent coup resulting in power being grabbed by the religious extremists. That's pretty obvious. Hell, if we'd at least stayed OUT of it, the odds are good things would have turned out infinitely better. Nope, we played God, and we got burned. Our fault. Period.

And what did America learn from it? Not a damn thing. Not only didn't we decrease our coups and imperialism, we INCREASED them continuously from then on till the present. Pretty much any bad thing that happens to America at this point has been 100% earned by the actions of our elites whom so many have granted power and authority. Only when they STOP trying to run the world and mind their own business will I feel bad attitudes towards us as a nation will be unwarranted.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Iran has the right to respond, no doubt about it. Any nation has the right to retaliate after being attacked, even ones unpopular to the Bush Regime and Israel.

Is Iran "popular" with you? just curious... you seem to pawn their evil nature off on the President and Israel, but how do YOU feel about Iran?

I'm neutral on the Iran issue. I don't see them as our problem. What will be a problem is if Israel or someone else attacks them and disrupts the supply of oil, causing price increases.
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
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Originally posted by: musicman87
its ridiculous to say that we shouldn't discriminate in which countries are allowed to produce nuclear weapons. I'm sure all the residents of Miami would love to have nuclear weapons on Cuba. For those who complained about the US not having international support for Iraq, no we have it and you're still too much of a pvssy to do something, and Iran is much more of a threat. Perhaps everyone should have nukes. The US is a super power, regardless of what anyone says, and therefore we have a responsibility to make sure extremists don't posses nuclear weapons.

Yeah. While we're at it, discriminating against Americans for having nukes in their back yards should be outlawed. Give everybody in the world 1 nuke, that way we're fair. People have to realize that giving every nation a nuke is just like giving every person a nuke, just on a bigger scale, with even deadlier consequences. There will always be stupid people and nations, making the playing field level is way ignoraant.

Keep living in your Ivory Towers, people.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Iran has the right to respond, no doubt about it. Any nation has the right to retaliate after being attacked, even ones unpopular to the Bush Regime and Israel.

Is Iran "popular" with you? just curious... you seem to pawn their evil nature off on the President and Israel, but how do YOU feel about Iran?

I'm neutral on the Iran issue. I don't see them as our problem. What will be a problem is if Israel or someone else attacks them and disrupts the supply of oil, causing price increases.

lol, so you're indifferent to Iranian leaderships' goals of wiping Israel off of the map, their eternal support of worldwide fanatical terrorism, and their efforts and desire for Islam to "take over the world"?!

swell.

how about we just ignore it and hope it goes away? sound good?

swell.
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Iran has the right to respond, no doubt about it. Any nation has the right to retaliate after being attacked, even ones unpopular to the Bush Regime and Israel.

Is Iran "popular" with you? just curious... you seem to pawn their evil nature off on the President and Israel, but how do YOU feel about Iran?

I'm neutral on the Iran issue. I don't see them as our problem. What will be a problem is if Israel or someone else attacks them and disrupts the supply of oil, causing price increases.

lol, so you're indifferent to Iranian leaderships' goals of wiping Israel off of the map, their eternal support of worldwide fanatical terrorism, and their efforts and desire for Islam to "take over the world"?!

swell.

how about we just ignore it and hope it goes away? sound good?

swell.

Israel's existance isn't my problem. I'm an American, not an Israeli. The last two things you said sound like talking points leading up to the invasion of Iraq.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Iran is not asking for the right to develop nuclear weapons, only nuclear power.


Are you naive, stupid, or both. Those are the only three possibilities.

Ronstang, besides the personal attacks, are there any facts in your corner proving Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons?

Any proof? Proof is not politician speculation, even though that may pass as "proof" in your circles.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Iran is not asking for the right to develop nuclear weapons, only nuclear power.

Why dont you take your head out of the sand already. Clearly they have other goals with their enrichment program. If they didnt, then they would have taken Russia up on their offer to provide fuel for their reactors.

What happens when Iran and Russia aren't buddies anymore? Russia can hold Iran's power grid hostage with all the enrichment centers on their land.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Iran is not asking for the right to develop nuclear weapons, only nuclear power.

That's not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing, "We withdraw from the treaty, you cannot inspect, we are working on fuel, Israel should be wiped from the map."
I voted No, Yes1, and Yes.
 

Votingisanillusion

Senior member
Nov 6, 2004
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The CIA put Khomeini into power to get rid of the Shah who was getting too independant and wanted to develop his country economically; to do so he took over the oil business from US/UK multinationals. An incredible crime! He was also forming an alliance of countries independant of the US and USSR. Totally forbidden: the supreme crime! With or against us! Not independant! Independance means peace. World peace! Totally forbidden by the military-industrial complex that needs a world at war to develop itself. World peace means they do not get new powerful weapons and do not feel like they have a huge penis, they do not get hundreds of billions, they do not express their sadistic needs by killing millions of people regularly all over the World. Zbigniew Brzezinski, who controlled U.S. foreign policy at that time, and the "dark force" he represents, wanted an enemy they could control . . . and eventually defeat because they understood the wisdom of Plato's dictum:
"When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader."
So first the US has to get rid of the CIA and the almighty Pentagon, and replace them with a reasonable and real Defense secretary and defensive army!
Then close all the US military bases around the World, Iraq included.
Then pressure Israel to get rid of its nukes.
Then keep the international pressure on Iran to never develop nukes.
And support reasonable democrats in Iran with money.
Support reasonable democrats all over the World with money.
That is the only possibility of a peaceful World.
Ask yourself: do you really want peace? Or are you a frightened child? Or a sadistic person? People tend to justify with their reason what was really decided in their subconscious.
If you do not see that keeping on attacking foreign countries will never make this World a peaceful place, then this World is lost, unless the US goes bankrupt soon.


Here is a quite important (if you have been brainwashed into believing that the US did not want Khomeini to replace the Shah) text by Fereydoun Hoveyda, who was Iran's ambassador to the United Nations from 1971 to 1978.

Free elections, 1979 - My last audience with the Shah
http://www.iranian.com/FereydounHoveyda/2000/August/Shah/

August 18, 2000 - The Iranian

In April 1978, I was summoned to Tehran.The Shah wanted to give me special instructions about the forthcoming special session of the U.N. General Assembly on disarmament, initiated by the Soviet Union.This was about a month after the riots provoked by Ayatollah Khomeini's followers in Tabriz. My audience with the monarch was fixed for Wednesday April 12th at 11 o'clock a.m. I was ushered in a parlor room where the commanders of the different branches of the army were waiting to be received. The Shah would see them one by one! He was running late in his schedule because of an urgent meeting with the minister of interior. I had a lunch appointment with my brother. I called his office to inform him that I would be late and he should not wait for me.

It was almost half past twelve when I entered the Shah's office. He did not seem worried at all . He listened to my report and gave some instructions about the way we should vote at the U.N. meeting. This whole business did not take more than fifteen minutes. He rose from his chair. I too got up thinking that the audience was over. But he did not extend his hand. As was his wont, he put his thumbs in the armholes of his vest and paced the vast room. He spoke about the "events" (the unrest provoked by religious elements). I remained standing , following his movements with my eyes.

Suddenly he stopped in front of me and said: "These demonstrations by some religious elements are orchestrated by the oil companies." He remained silent for a few seconds staring at me as if he were verifying the impact of his words. Then he resumed walking, and talking. "They are angry at my policies. I have truly and practically nationalized the oil industry. Mossadegh did nothing of the sort. His nationalization of the British company was just words on paper. We were almost ruined and had to accept the 'consortium' agreement with several Western oil corporations including the British! I have just dismissed them all and taken into my own hands all the oil business, from extraction to the selling of our refined products in gas stations all over the world! The National Iranian Oil Company is now one of the great oil corporations of the world. The eighth sister!"

 

ForumMaster

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2005
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well iran is bascially developing weapons against israel. and i recall the time we atacked Iraq's nuclear sites and the world decided to ignore it and reagan even admired it (i read it in a book). the question of whether Iran has the right to develop nuclear weapons is a difficult one. For one, I guess they do have the "right" but it is a difficult question. i don't think any nation has the right to develop nuclear weapons (including Israel or the U.S. as well). the current regime is controlled by a leader as crazy as North Koreas's leader. both are in trouble and theirfor decide to threaten other nations to get what they want. currently, Iran doesn not have the right to develop nuclear technology (oh and note Aimster that they are "supposedly" developing nuclear technology, not weapons) because the Iran's leader wants to use it for a very specific reason. will this lead to WW3? i hope not.
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
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They have the right to get the smacketh laid downeth on their ARSE!

why do you goobers think they have a right to build a nuke? C'mon peeps did 9/11 not happen?
 

oldman420

Platinum Member
May 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: EXman
They have the right to get the smacketh laid downeth on their ARSE!

why do you goobers think they have a right to build a nuke? C'mon peeps did 9/11 not happen?

And what did Iran have to do with 9/11?
So they get a nuke tell me how they are going to deliver it eh?
Trust me Iran has the money to just buy a nuke if they really wanted one.

They are just following Korea's lead here is all.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Iran is not asking for the right to develop nuclear weapons, only nuclear power.

Why dont you take your head out of the sand already. Clearly they have other goals with their enrichment program. If they didnt, then they would have taken Russia up on their offer to provide fuel for their reactors.

What happens when Iran and Russia aren't buddies anymore? Russia can hold Iran's power grid hostage with all the enrichment centers on their land.

You need fuel for reactors every decaded or so. I'm sure with only one or two reactors other sources of fuel could be aquired.

 

narcotic

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2004
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I would like to refer to your question "Should the U.S/Israel attack Iran?".
One of the possible answers you've given, is that Israel should do it, but not us, since its "none of our business".
Well, rest assure that if it wasn't for the restraining efforts made by many countries headed by us, Israel would've attacked Iran long time ago.
As Israel proved many times in the past, it's perfectly capable of handling its enemies (we need to thank them for not having to face nukes in Iraq).
The problem is that once we've decided to interfere with Israel's issues, and not let it take care of them, we made it our own business.
Like it or not, Israel is our ally, and very good and powerful one at that.
So, I see no real choice here. Yes, it looks like Iran will only be stopped using force, and YES, it is going to be us needing to take care of that, since when Israel wanted to do so, we wouldn't let them.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Iran is not asking for the right to develop nuclear weapons, only nuclear power.

Why dont you take your head out of the sand already. Clearly they have other goals with their enrichment program. If they didnt, then they would have taken Russia up on their offer to provide fuel for their reactors.

What happens when Iran and Russia aren't buddies anymore? Russia can hold Iran's power grid hostage with all the enrichment centers on their land.

I dont think that is why Iran refused their offer. And if that ever happened I am sure Iran has the ability to enrich their own Uranium. Clearly unless you are being obtuse they are not terribly interested in using this for civilian uses.


 

narcotic

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2004
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Another thought...
It does seem odd to me that smart people as you are being fooled that easily by the Iranian president. Sure, he makes constant threats to Israel, so some of us go "hey, this is not our problem... It's Israel's problem right?!...".
Well, WRONG! Sure the Iranian hate Israel and would be very happy to have it gone, but trust me, Israel has nothing to do with its ultimate goal. He has every intention of getting rid of the western civilization and make sure Islam rules the world. Why would he think he can do it? Well, because he's a crazy psychopath, sure he will lose eventually, but his nukes will have enough range to hit many major European cities (not to mention Russian), and it won't be long before he'll have capability of hitting us as well, and that will cause some damage.
So, if you feel relaxed because you think Iran is only after Israel then you're making a deadly mistake.
Israel is a nice to have candy for them, and they use it for diversion (which judging by some of the posts here, obviously works) for their real goal.

Iranian president knows he heads into a clash, and probably knows he's going to lose, so why does he do it? It's really hard to say... Why did Sadam did what he did? Look where it got him... It's hard to say with these people, I guess this is what happens when people that should locked up in mental institution run a country.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
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I don't think Iran is after Europe at all. If they had a problem with Europe they would have made enemies with them too. Iran's leaders are not afraid of having enemies or having more sanctions. Khomeini lived in a hut his whole life.

Iran's hate for Israel stems back to the downfall of the Shah. Khomeini came in and he is the one who made Iran into an enemy of Israel. It was not Israel who made Iran their enemy. Why? Iran claims that Muslims need to protect their fellow Muslims who are being attacked by non-Muslims and it is the Muslim world's responsibility to help those Muslims. That is why the relations with the U.S/Israel were cut off and the main political campaign for the Iranian regime is to protect Muslims from these ?evil? nations.

What the idiots in Iran fail to realize is

A) Palestinians sided with Saddam when he invaded Iran. They were cheering him on for the destruction of Iran. In Fact almost all of the Arab nations were cheering Saddam on.

B) If Iran was where Israel is, the Arabs would have been attacking Iran on a daily basis with suicide bombers as well. It is not a Muslim-Jew problem, it is a "I am Arab I do not want anyone who is not Arab next to me problem". Iran has like 180,000 Arabs living there and the ironic thing is those Arabs want their own little country in Iran and they are not getting it so they are carrying out suicide bombings inside Iran.

C) The majority of Muslims are Sunni. Iran is Shia. Sunnis do not believe in the system that Iran has. They wish for its destruction. Look at Iraq as an example. I don't see why they are being defenders for a group of people who don't even recognize their govt.

So far Europe has not done anything to piss off Muslims enough where Iran (the Muslim defenders) step in and tell them to f-off.

 

DrCrap

Senior member
Feb 14, 2005
238
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You americans really annoy me, and many other Israeli's.
You think you own us, and keep dictating what we should or should not do.
Iran is our problem, let us fvcking handle them, I'm sure we'll do a job far better then anything you can ever hope to do.
Iran should be dealt with extreme force, a force which only Israel can currently introduce.
What we expect the U.S to do right now, is to step a side, and let us (oh please let me daddy), deal with those fvckers.
By the time we're through with them, they will have problems far greater than developing any nuclear programs for a while.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
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fobot.com
you P&N guys are amazing

Yes, they have every right to build nuclear weapons
55 votes 38.19 (%)

even iran says they don't want nukes, but the P&N liberals want Iran to have nukes? w0w!!

they (Iran) have even signed the NPT and "Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a fatwa forbidding the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons on August 9, 2005. "

so who are the 38% of peoples that voted "Yes, they have every right to build nuclear weapons" ? the conservatives? that seems unlikely :confused:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty#Iran
 

Polish3d

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
5,500
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Originally posted by: FoBoT
you P&N guys are amazing

Yes, they have every right to build nuclear weapons
55 votes 38.19 (%)

even iran says they don't want nukes, but the P&N liberals want Iran to have nukes? w0w!!

they (Iran) have even signed the NPT and "Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a fatwa forbidding the production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons on August 9, 2005. "

so who are the 38% of peoples that voted "Yes, they have every right to build nuclear weapons" ? the conservatives? that seems unlikely :confused:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty#Iran



There are a lot of jackasses on this board, more here than I've ever seen on any other political board. Angry, disaffected computer geeks is how I would pigeonhole it