Iran Fail- IAEA reports negative results.

[Hayabusa Rider]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/06/iaea-iran-nuclear-inspection-deal-talks-fail.html

The 5+1 offers an enrichment option, everything looks good and Iran brings up settled items and adds more. Even China is tired of this. Iran seems to be headed to a bad ending.

 

[Anarchist420]

I don't believe it. How do we know the IAEA and China haven't been bribed by the MIC?

Also, what's wrong with Iran having a nuclear weapon (even though the Iranians don't even want one)? Don't you think the Iranians know they would get smashed if they tried to build one?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I don't believe it. How do we know the IAEA and China haven't been bribed by the MIC?

Also, what's wrong with Iran having a nuclear weapon (even though the Iranians don't even want one)? Don't you think the Iranians know they would get smashed if they tried to build one?

Um China is a dictatorship that screws people up. Political control and power are their interests and there isn't a bribe big enough to change that. If they are unhappy then thats because Iran is messing with them. As far as the IAEA goes see my sig. Iran would be nickle and dime to a guaranteed full scale war. Good luck with demonstrating that.

 

[cliftonite]

Don't care. Don't want to waste a single $ on Iran.

 

[Lemon law]

Haybasusa is correct in his report, the powers that be, will not trust any Iranian nuclear enrichment Period.

As wee the people are not asked if this is fair to Iran, we only asked what Israel wants.

As we are heading to a cluster fuck that can't be forever kicked down the road As the powers that be, act exactly like our birthers, in saying the only answer they will accept is that Obama was not born in the USA. No other answers will be accepted by birthers

But still, US birthers have no legal leg to stand on, and Obama is still POTUS.

As we have a pissing contests, if Iran decides to endure sanctions rather than fold their tent, the Onus is on Israeli and other powers that be, to get foggie and attack Iran. Which then green lights Iran to shut down the Persian gulf.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Haybasusa is correct in his report, the powers that be, will not trust any Iranian nuclear enrichment Period.

As wee the people are not asked if this is fair to Iran, we only asked what Israel wants.

As we are heading to a cluster fuck that can't be forever kicked down the road As the powers that be, act exactly like our birthers, in saying the only answer they will accept is that Obama was not born in the USA. No other answers will be accepted by birthers

But still, US birthers have no legal leg to stand on, and Obama is still POTUS.

As we have a pissing contests, if Iran decides to endure sanctions rather than fold their tent, the Onus is on Israeli and other powers that be, to get foggie and attack Iran. Which then green lights Iran to shut down the Persian gulf.

You ignored the article. There would have been an agreement to allow enrichment necessary for nuclear power. Iran decided to put aside agreements already made and add more just as it seemed this mess was over. It was Iran and Iran alone who decided to queer the deal at the last minute. It isn't making friends.

 

[Jhhnn]

You ignored the article. There would have been an agreement to allow enrichment necessary for nuclear power. Iran decided to put aside agreements already made and add more just as it seemed this mess was over. It was Iran and Iran alone who decided to queer the deal at the last minute. It isn't making friends.

The article is pretty vague, with the usual spin, so I'm not sure that's really accurate.

I still think that the IAEA, the US & Israel are trying to queer a deal about the present & the future over alleged peripheral weapons related research of a decade ago.

I'm not saying it did or didn't occur, but rather that it shouldn't matter if our real concerns are about the future, about Iran having a verifiable peaceful nuclear program including enrichment. If the past is more important than the future, there will never be an agreement.

There's obviously a lot of posturing by both sides, again, and we're only getting one side of it so far. They're still talking, and that's good.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The article is pretty vague, with the usual spin, so I'm not sure that's really accurate.

I still think that the IAEA, the US & Israel are trying to queer a deal about the present & the future over alleged peripheral weapons related research of a decade ago.

I'm not saying it did or didn't occur, but rather that it shouldn't matter if our real concerns are about the future, about Iran having a verifiable peaceful nuclear program including enrichment. If the past is more important than the future, there will never be an agreement.

There's obviously a lot of posturing by both sides, again, and we're only getting one side of it so far. They're still talking, and that's good.

I think Iran needs to think hard on how it next proceeds. China is now irritated with this and the next round is in Russia. You can be assured that neither of those powers cares whatsoever about Israel. If Iran flips Russia and everyone else off we might see something that's never happened before and that's the big three collaborating on options beyond talks,diplomacy, or sanctions. At that point the Iranian leadership can kiss its ass goodbye. They seem to be mentally challenged.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think Iran needs to think hard on how it next proceeds. China is now irritated with this and the next round is in Russia. You can be assured that neither of those powers cares whatsoever about Israel. If Iran flips Russia and everyone else off we might see something that's never happened before and that's the big three collaborating on options beyond talks,diplomacy, or sanctions. At that point the Iranian leadership can kiss its ass goodbye. They seem to be mentally challenged.

How do you know China is irritated?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How do you know China is irritated?

Because China isn't in the habit of urging anyone to cooperate when there is potential for consternation on the part of the US. Iran flipping off us is one thing, but now China is invested as a participant, not a sideline string puller, and losing face is never well received.

When China "suggests" in this context it means more than the official definition.

 

[Jhhnn]

Because China isn't in the habit of urging anyone to cooperate when there is potential for consternation on the part of the US. Iran flipping off us is one thing, but now China is invested as a participant, not a sideline string puller, and losing face is never well received.

When China "suggests" in this context it means more than the official definition.

In other words, you're extrapolating.

 

[gevorg]

great news for warmongers

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In other words, you're extrapolating.

Which I do well

We'll see what happens, but Iran has decided to up the ante by sabotaging the meetings by its games. If you think the nations in charge are indifferent to being played for fools, thats of course your right, but I suggest that in the history of international relations, this isn't something that ends well. Ask Saddam.

 

[Jhhnn]

Which I do well

We'll see what happens, but Iran has decided to up the ante by sabotaging the meetings by its games. If you think the nations in charge are indifferent to being played for fools, thats of course your right, but I suggest that in the history of international relations, this isn't something that ends well. Ask Saddam.

Oh, please. These comparisons to Saddam are tedious, because the goal of the Bushistas was invasion, regardless of Iraqi actions, supported by conflation, blood lust & a massive fearmongering campaign in the wake of 9/11. We're not seeing that, at all, other than by Netanyahu et al.

There's still a lot of gamesmanship on both sides, not just from Iran, and if you think we're getting the full story, you're delusional.

The IAEA & the US continue to attempt to ignore the future in dwelling on the past, on Parchin, and are working to set up Iran for denial of future enrichment based on alleged past nuclear weapons related activities. That's obvious.

It's just as obvious that Iran is not creating weapons grade material under IAEA supervision, nor would they be able to divert production to such purposes w/o detection if they tried.

Everybody needs to move on, look to the future, not stew in the bitter juices of the past.

 

[Jaskalas]

I think Iran needs to think hard on how it next proceeds. China is now irritated with this and the next round is in Russia. You can be assured that neither of those powers cares whatsoever about Israel. If Iran flips Russia and everyone else off we might see something that's never happened before and that's the big three collaborating on options beyond talks,diplomacy, or sanctions. At that point the Iranian leadership can kiss its ass goodbye. They seem to be mentally challenged.

Perhaps they know more about their friends in Russia and China than you do.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Oh, please. These comparisons to Saddam are tedious, because the goal of the Bushistas was invasion, regardless of Iraqi actions, supported by conflation, blood lust & a massive fearmongering campaign in the wake of 9/11. We're not seeing that, at all, other than by Netanyahu et al.

There's still a lot of gamesmanship on both sides, not just from Iran, and if you think we're getting the full story, you're delusional.

The IAEA & the US continue to attempt to ignore the future in dwelling on the past, on Parchin, and are working to set up Iran for denial of future enrichment based on alleged past nuclear weapons related activities. That's obvious.

It's just as obvious that Iran is not creating weapons grade material under IAEA supervision, nor would they be able to divert production to such purposes w/o detection if they tried.

Everybody needs to move on, look to the future, not stew in the bitter juices of the past.

The bolded statement is a strawman, Jhhnn. Nobody is claiming that Iran is creating weapons grade material. The problem is that there are indications that Iran is researching things like triggers for nuclear weapons. Why would they be doing such a thing if, as they claim, they have no interest in nuclear weapons in the first place?

And please don't reply with some lame excuse that you have no proof of like 'This is a political ploy by the US and Israel.' That kind of response nothing but pure speculation resulting from your ingrained biases.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The IAEA & the US continue to attempt to ignore the future in dwelling on the past, on Parchin, and are working to set up Iran for denial of future enrichment based on alleged past nuclear weapons related activities. That's obvious.

That's extrapolation.

"Setting up". Interesting. China wants Iran to cooperate so they must be setting them up too. Seems like everyone is picking on poor Iran, which you notably ignore decided to renege on what it had agreed to already. You choose to ignore what's being reported or decide it's suspect yet freely engage in gross speculation. Iran isn't ignoring the past, it keeps going back to the start.

 

[Jhhnn]

The bolded statement is a strawman, Jhhnn. Nobody is claiming that Iran is creating weapons grade material. The problem is that there are indications that Iran is researching things like triggers for nuclear weapons. Why would they be doing such a thing if, as they claim, they have no interest in nuclear weapons in the first place?

And please don't reply with some lame excuse that you have no proof of like 'This is a political ploy by the US and Israel.' That kind of response nothing but pure speculation resulting from your ingrained biases.

There are indications from super sekrit anonymous sources that Iran *was* doing that, yes, but it really doesn't matter in the context of not having weapons grade material means no weapons. And it's not like the IAEA isn't acting outside its mandate in expressing "concerns" over such research, either- they're "concerned" because they have no legal basis to claim such is a violation of the NPT signed by Iran- otherwise, they'd claim Iran in violation of the treaty, an entirely different thing.

http://jurist.org/forum/2011/11/dan-joyner-iaea-report.php

What you just offered merely confirms what I said- that the US & the IAEA would very much like to use that peripheral issue to deny Iran the right to enrich uranium for legit uses. Otherwise, they wouldn't continuously throw it up as a roadblock.

No weapons grade materials means no weapons, regardless of projected or real "intent" on the part of those enriching uranium. That's the rationale behind the NPT in the first place, and the reason for an ongoing IAEA inspection regimen in all signatory states who have nuclear tech.

Trust? the invocation of "trust" is just an attempt to deny legitimacy to that very basic concept. Of course the Iranians are not to be trusted- we don't have to do that because we have the IAEA on the job. From Iran's perspective, we're not to be trusted either when we make a deal, change it, and then demand that they abide by those changes, which is precisely what the Security Council & the IAEA are doing.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's extrapolation.

"Setting up". Interesting. China wants Iran to cooperate so they must be setting them up too. Seems like everyone is picking on poor Iran, which you notably ignore decided to renege on what it had agreed to already. You choose to ignore what's being reported or decide it's suspect yet freely engage in gross speculation. Iran isn't ignoring the past, it keeps going back to the start.

That's not extrapolation at all, but rather an explanation of events up to this point. The allegation & linkage of basic nuclear weapons research to verifiable fuel grade enrichment cannot have any other purpose.

Let's say that inspection of Parchin reveals that such research did take place at some point in the past. What purpose can such discovery serve other than as rationale for denial of legitimacy wrt enrichment under IAEA supervision?

What's being reported is that the IAEA announced earlier that they were close to agreement & didn't get there, not that any had been made for Iran to renege upon. Who's extrapolating in the claim that Iran reneged on an agreement that never existed?

 

[Abwx]

Which I do well

We'll see what happens, but Iran has decided to up the ante by sabotaging the meetings by its games. If you think the nations in charge are indifferent to being played for fools, thats of course your right, but I suggest that in the history of international relations, this isn't something that ends well. Ask Saddam.

What you re doing well is to display a ridiculous supremacism
that consist to take peoples for mental slaves and idiots
that have no brain ...

Talk about extrapolating , yeah..

The US is obviously using terrorists methods as spreading
virus as stuxnet to sabotage Iran s industry , yet fearing
a return to the sender by Iran s services the US promptly
declared that they could use nuclear weapons against
any terrorist cyber attack against them...

Any wise Iranian politician can only conclude that this is
the prove that nuclear weapons are indeed needed to deter
such criminal and rogue states as the US or his master israel...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's not extrapolation at all, but rather an explanation of events up to this point. The allegation & linkage of basic nuclear weapons research to verifiable fuel grade enrichment cannot have any other purpose.

Let's say that inspection of Parchin reveals that such research did take place at some point in the past. What purpose can such discovery serve other than as rationale for denial of legitimacy wrt enrichment under IAEA supervision?

What's being reported is that the IAEA announced earlier that they were close to agreement & didn't get there, not that any had been made for Iran to renege upon. Who's extrapolating in the claim that Iran reneged on an agreement that never existed?

I'll rephrase if you like. There was settled agreement on conditions necessary for The Agreement, not only did Iran undo them but added new conditions as well. Thats in the article which you are reluctant to accept. Instead you substitute your own explanation for a great deal more than China. If you disregard my comments on China then you are left with Iran throwing up stumbling blocks. If you believe the superpowers will bend over and take it gratefully, then by all means be our guest.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What you re doing well is to display a ridiculous supremacism
that consist to take peoples for mental slaves and idiots
that have no brain ...

Talk about extrapolating , yeah..

The US is obviously using terrorists methods as spreading
virus as stuxnet to sabotage Iran s industry , yet fearing
a return to the sender by Iran s services the US promptly
declared that they could use nuclear weapons against
any terrorist cyber attack against them...

Any wise Iranian politician can only conclude that this is
the prove that nuclear weapons are indeed needed to deter
such criminal and rogue states as the US or his master israel...

The "take home" lesson from your post is to invest in aluminum. There isn't enough for your tin foil hat. Let's see... In the news you can easily find that China told Iran to be cooperative. Pray tell, how did Israel become master of China?

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll rephrase if you like. There was settled agreement on conditions necessary for The Agreement, not only did Iran undo them but added new conditions as well. Thats in the article which you are reluctant to accept. Instead you substitute your own explanation for a great deal more than China. If you disregard my comments on China then you are left with Iran throwing up stumbling blocks. If you believe the superpowers will bend over and take it gratefully, then by all means be our guest.

Nice dance- "settled agreement on conditions necessary for the agreement" is the attack of the weasel equivalent of Godzilla. They said they were close to a deal, but it fell through. That doesn't make a reasonable deal impossible, if we actually want one.

What new conditions did Iran want? The article isn't specific in that regard, leaving room for that weasel's twin...

The whole thing wrt "Nuclear weapons related activity" is a diversion & a smokescreen, anyway.

Just say it- "Nuclear weapons cannot be created w/o weapons grade material". Leave out the rest of it- all the accusations, distractions, suspicions & innuendo about the past, forge an agreement based on that simple reality. Forget Parchin & the rest of it- concentrate on the heart of the matter.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Nice dance- "settled agreement on conditions necessary for the agreement" is the attack of the weasel equivalent of Godzilla. They said they were close to a deal, but it fell through. That doesn't make a reasonable deal impossible, if we actually want one.

What new conditions did Iran want? The article isn't specific in that regard, leaving room for that weasel's twin...

The whole thing wrt "Nuclear weapons related activity" is a diversion & a smokescreen, anyway.

Just say it- "Nuclear weapons cannot be created w/o weapons grade material". Leave out the rest of it- all the accusations, distractions, suspicions & innuendo about the past, forge an agreement based on that simple reality. Forget Parchin & the rest of it- concentrate on the heart of the matter.

I'll dumb this down. Points which were already settled were undone by Iran after the fact and other items added. An offer to allow enrichment to a level sufficient for Iran's nuclear power needs at least was on the table. Iran decided to reverse progress already made. Thats on them. They'll profit or not based on their own actions. If they continue to act in this way I believe you might have a chance for the armed convict you ask for. No not in words but by tacit approval of Iran's tactics. Iran bests itself. So be it.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll dumb this down. Points which were already settled were undone by Iran after the fact and other items added. An offer to allow enrichment to a level sufficient for Iran's nuclear power needs at least was on the table. Iran decided to reverse progress already made. Thats on them. They'll profit or not based on their own actions. If they continue to act in this way I believe you might have a chance for the armed convict you ask for. No not in words but by tacit approval of Iran's tactics. Iran bests itself. So be it.

You dumbed it down, alright, to the point where you ignore what you quote & beat on the drum of what you want to believe.

If Iran introduced new conditions, what are they? Did anybody else attempt to do the same?

It's as if you trust the posturings of one side to be sincere & not the other, when the IAEA under Amano's guidance has done a huge amount of posturing of their own, toeing the US/Israeli line like their lives depended on it.

If the US & Israelis constructed Duqu, Stuxnet & Flame, what's to say that the documents they offered the IAEA aren't more of the same sort of "evidence" as the Niger uranium forgeries?

Once we remember that the US goal is to cripple Iran, to foment discontent & regime change in that country, we might even come to the conclusion that all this wailing & gnashing of teeth wrt their nuclear program isn't a primary issue, anyway, but rather just an excuse for sanctions... Prior actions would indicate that just might be true.