iPhone only major smartphone without Adobe Flash 10.1

[pm]

I saw this on Dailytech today:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=16416

This means that by the middle of next year, just about everyone with a smartphone will have Flash and be exploring a richer internet. Everyone, that is, except for those that own an iPhone. Apple CEO Steve Jobs continues to insist that Flash is an irrelevant technology that Apple customers don't need and has refused to collaborate with Adobe.

I don't get it. I don't understand it. What possible reason could Apple have for not collaborating with Adobe to bring Flash to the iPhone?

edit: added another article - this one from ZDNet who seem to act like it's a good thing that iPhones won't have Flash.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5738&tag=nl.e539

The ZDNet article feels to kind to Apple - I mean, if Flash is so horrible, just include a way to turn it off and let the users decide.

I can guess that this thread could turn into an Apple hatefest, but I would appreciate it if people could keep their comments reasonably constructive.

 

[Sheep]

Originally posted by: pm
I don't get it. I don't understand it. What possible reason could Apple have for not collaborating with Adobe to bring Flash to the iPhone?

Apple sells TV shows and movies on iTunes. Flash would enable people to watch some TV shows on Hulu or the networks' websites, eating into revenue.

Something about cutting off your nose comes to mind...

 

[gorcorps]

I do wish we had flash, as there are some sites that I can't use w/out it. Methinks Jobs is a fool and it may bite him in the ass a bit if he remains stubborn much longer.

 

[zerocool84]

Here we go with Apple being Apple and always assuming they know what's best. This is one of the many reasons why I'll never buy an Apple product. This is beyond stupid.

 

[Rottie]

Adobe flash is cool only on PC but on any smartphones i hardly use flash player. If it is irrelevant then why did Mr Job let Adobe flash player running on Safari broswer worked fine on all Macbooks and yet no iphone with safari browser??

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: Sheep

Originally posted by: pm
I don't get it. I don't understand it. What possible reason could Apple have for not collaborating with Adobe to bring Flash to the iPhone?

Apple sells TV shows and movies on iTunes. Flash would enable people to watch some TV shows on Hulu or the networks' websites, eating into revenue.

Something about cutting off your nose comes to mind...

This was my first thought as well. However, this will surely eat into iPhone sales, so revenue will still suffer.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Already posted this in another thread. It's a shame for Apple users, but this looks like it's going the same way as Google Voice.

 

[boomhower]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Here we go with Apple being Apple and always assuming they know what's best. This is one of the many reasons why I'll never buy an Apple product. This is beyond stupid.

Took the words right out of my mouth. +1

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: Sheep

Originally posted by: pm
I don't get it. I don't understand it. What possible reason could Apple have for not collaborating with Adobe to bring Flash to the iPhone?

Apple sells TV shows and movies on iTunes. Flash would enable people to watch some TV shows on Hulu or the networks' websites, eating into revenue.

Something about cutting off your nose comes to mind...

This was my first thought as well. However, this will surely eat into iPhone sales, so revenue will still suffer.

I really don't think that it will eat into sales much at all. There will be a few that will request that their smartphone is able to use Flash, but at the end of the day I mean how many really care?

I think we should wait until we have some reviews of this and the performance/battery costs. The very fact that my dual core macbook had trouble playing flash for long periods of time before the system became unusable. This was in OS X, which is the base of the iPhone OS. Someone else more knowledgeable can step in, but how is Flash performance on linux compared to Windows? The very fact that I would get less overall CPU utilization by doing longterm flash stuff (movies on Hulu for example) by opening a VM and running Hulu from IE or Chrome in Windows inside of OS X I think speaks to Adobe disregard for non-windows implementations.

So, before people start gnashing their teeth and hating on Apple (this is not to defend them, regardless of my fanboy-ness), how about we wait and see what this does to battery life?

 

[TheWart]

I too wish that the iPhone supported flash, but I think that it is too early to say "Oh it is never going to happen!" This release says it will be out for phones officially sometime next year, and it would not surprise me at all to see Apple decide that flash is a good idea after all....I would have to imagine that they will want to include it on their supposed tablet, and it probably wouldn't be a huge jump from that to the iPhone.

All that being said, I agree with TheStu that even if Apple decides against flash support all the way through next year and beyond it probably won't hurt sales all that much. For most of the people who really care they probably have not - and never will - buy an iPhone because 'my winmo phone can already do x/y/z'

 

[pm]

Originally posted by: TheWart
I too wish that the iPhone supported flash, but I think that it is too early to say "Oh it is never going to happen!"

I agree. But what it does mean is that when Flash 10.1 goes live on all devices, Apple iPhone won't be one of them. That doesn't mean that it won't ever be on an iPhone - Apple seems to be following a pattern of seemingly saying "Our customers don't need this feature, we won't support it" and then releasing a new phone with this supposedly irrelevant feature on it. If they keep to previous history, the iPod Touch guys will then be charged $15 to add it, and the people with older iPhones won't get it at all and will need to upgrade.

 

[blackangst1]

I dunno....G1 is a major phone and without jailbreaking it it doesnt have flash *shrug*

 

[pm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I dunno....G1 is a major phone and without jailbreaking it it doesnt have flash *shrug*

Yes, right now that's true. But next summer, when everyone switches to Flash 10.1, it will have it. Some release between now and then - probably knowing the Android guys, they'll call it "fruitcake" or something like that - will add it.

 

[ilkhan]

In two words: "HA HA"
Much as I despise flash, I don't care which side is responsible. Fuck apple.

 

[zylander]

I love my MBP and my iPhone but Apple is retarded and run by idiots. I dont care about Flash and never visit sites from my iPhone that require flash but I still hate listening to how Jobs thinks he knows what other people need.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

You honestly don't need flash. Look what flash did to the HTC Hero. When you go to a flash filled site it's terrible. That phone slows to a crawl. It looks great though I admit, and this is how Android works with a lot of nice visual effects. Flash, but it's clearly not for a phone just yet as shown by the Hero's web browsing.

Quite honestly, what you NEED flash for is Youtube, and there's a Youtube thing already. If your goal was to view flash video, then perhaps Apple should incorporate that somehow, but honestly using an N-series and a WinMo phone, I think flash is great to have but not necessary. Web browsing on my iPod touch is VERY pleasing as it is.

You're right, Apple shouldn't be deciding what's good for me and what's bad, but they have battery issues. If they enabled flash, those Cortex A8 processors would suck all battery life out in 6 hours. I can bet you battery life is a HUGE reason. Same with excluding 3G. A lot of you didn't care for that, but when the rest of the world was using 3G and laughing at the iPhone's 2G speeds, then some people got hte picture. And finally when the 3G version came out people were like "Ohhhhh." So when Apple said 3G is not necessary and that Wifi would replace it, that wasn't the truth. The people WANT 3G, it's just Apple didn't have a good way to implement it yet without killing the battery life.

A lot of people use this as ammo to throw flak at Apple, but having a 3GS and an iPod Touch, I don't think this really screws the phone over. It's not like I really love my N-Series more for having flash.

Now what would be great is the ability to use flash in the apps. Adobe has demoed this, and I bet Apple is trying to work on this.

I can guarantee you Apple is WORKING on getting flash implemented. Safari is so heavily used on the iPhone/iPod that Apple doesn't want flash killing the browsing experience. It's a tricky balance. You want people to be able to watch the videos they WANT to watch, but you can't let flash litter your browsing experience given that the iPhone's Safari is a fully capable browser like on my desktop. You want people to experience flash apps/games, but the trick is that if you have flash, then people demand it on their browser. What about battery life? Apple has a lot to juggle, and I'm sure that when Steve Jobs comes out to say "People don't need ____________" it's a sorry excuse for "Sorry we're still working on it." The people WANT flash. Apple's just trying to implement it in a way that works best... for them.

Do people NOT want a camera on the iPod Touch 3rd Gen? Was Steve Jobs correct? I doubt it. Most rumor sites claim that Apple WAS going to put it in until they ran into problems. Steve Jobs being their mouthpiece for Apple's failures doesn't really mean much. Take his statements with a grain of salt.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
You honestly don't need flash. Look what flash did to the HTC Hero. When you go to a flash filled site it's terrible. That phone slows to a crawl. It looks great though I admit, and this is how Android works with a lot of nice visual effects. Flash, but it's clearly not for a phone just yet as shown by the Hero's web browsing.

Quite honestly, what you NEED flash for is Youtube, and there's a Youtube thing already. If your goal was to view flash video, then perhaps Apple should incorporate that somehow, but honestly using an N-series and a WinMo phone, I think flash is great to have but not necessary. Web browsing on my iPod touch is VERY pleasing as it is.

You're right, Apple shouldn't be deciding what's good for me and what's bad, but they have battery issues. If they enabled flash, those Cortex A8 processors would suck all battery life out in 6 hours. I can bet you battery life is a HUGE reason. Same with excluding 3G. A lot of you didn't care for that, but when the rest of the world was using 3G and laughing at the iPhone's 2G speeds, then some people got hte picture. And finally when the 3G version came out people were like "Ohhhhh." So when Apple said 3G is not necessary and that Wifi would replace it, that wasn't the truth. The people WANT 3G, it's just Apple didn't have a good way to implement it yet without killing the battery life.

A lot of people use this as ammo to throw flak at Apple, but having a 3GS and an iPod Touch, I don't think this really screws the phone over. It's not like I really love my N-Series more for having flash.

Now what would be great is the ability to use flash in the apps. Adobe has demoed this, and I bet Apple is trying to work on this.

I can guarantee you Apple is WORKING on getting flash implemented. Safari is so heavily used on the iPhone/iPod that Apple doesn't want flash killing the browsing experience. It's a tricky balance. You want people to be able to watch the videos they WANT to watch, but you can't let flash litter your browsing experience given that the iPhone's Safari is a fully capable browser like on my desktop. You want people to experience flash apps/games, but the trick is that if you have flash, then people demand it on their browser. What about battery life? Apple has a lot to juggle, and I'm sure that when Steve Jobs comes out to say "People don't need ____________" it's a sorry excuse for "Sorry we're still working on it." The people WANT flash. Apple's just trying to implement it in a way that works best... for them.

Do people NOT want a camera on the iPod Touch 3rd Gen? Was Steve Jobs correct? I doubt it. Most rumor sites claim that Apple WAS going to put it in until they ran into problems. Steve Jobs being their mouthpiece for Apple's failures doesn't really mean much. Take his statements with a grain of salt.

Exactly.

There are any number of instances where Jobs has been onstage and publicly denied that something was going on, and then 6 months later, 'Boom' there it is, the Apple product with it, and you can be damned sure Jobs is going to sell it as if they just had the idea. Jobs is a salesman, he could sell sand to people in the sahara and make a tidy profit at that. He is a tyrannical, influential person that insists on having things his way, but he is not some grand puppetmaster pulling all the strings. The little things are what I usually associate with Jobs. Like with the 3GS came out and it was advertised as the 3G S. Within a week of it coming out, Jobs was also reported to be back on campus, and the space in the name was gone from all public stuff at Apple's website. Little things like that.

So, when Jobs gets on stage and tells you that 'People don't want to watch video on a 2" screen', he really means 'In six months we are releasing the first iPod that does video, but we can't tell you that, because then you won't buy this one.'

 

[pm]

Quite honestly, what you NEED flash for is Youtube, and there's a Youtube thing already.

Maybe in your case, but I can count the number of times that I've used the Youtube app on my iPhone on one hand... But I have wanted Flash for lots of other reasons. For example, a few days ago I was down at a mall in Denver and my wife wanted to know what restaurants they had in the section of the mall that is outside, so I pulled up Safari on my iPhone and went to the mall website only to discover that the map for the mall is in Flash. They called it an "interactive map" - which is fine... except that I couldn't view it at all on my iPhone.

Or less than 6 months ago, I wanted to view the specifications on a new car and I went to the manufacturer's website and couldn't view anything because I needed to use Flash to access the website.

Or I was driving down the road in California on vacation and there was a sign for a restaurant and my wife went their website to view their menu and the whole site was in Flash and we couldn't view it.

Or I was at some ski resort last spring - Winter Park or Copper, I think - and I wanted to pull up their lift map and I couldn't because they'd put together a Flash version.

I get the message that I need to install the Flash player to view some website at least once a month...

I have no doubt that Apple is involved in Flash in some way for the iPhone/Touch - but they aren't involved in any of the recent press releases from Adobe, so there is certainly some problem involved in it. Which still seems to me to be very strange.

As far as battery life, it's not a backgrounded app. You don't need to run it except when viewing Flash websites. I can understand that it's really sluggish on the Hero, and maybe that's the root of the problem - but if they can run this new optimized version of Flash that's been tweaked for mobile devices on a 528MHz ARM CPU on a G1, then I can't see why a 600MHz ARM CPU on an iPhone 3GS would be a problem. And if it really is sluggish or a battery hog, then have an enable/disable toggle in settings. Like being able to turn off WiFi and the GPS.

I don't think Apple is run by idiots - Steve Jobs is pretty much a genius in my opinion, he turned a computer company headed down the toilet in 1997 and completely reinvented into the modern media and computer company it is today. Amelio had Apple practically run into the ground, financial losses, layoffs, low stock/marketshare and Jobs reappeared and now the company is doing amazing.

But while Steve Jobs is a certified genius in my mind, he isn't perfect. He has a vision and if your program isn't part of his vision or he thinks you've wronged him in the past, then it doesn't matter if it makes business sense or not, it's out. And I think there's a bit too much of the "I know what is best, if you don't like it, get lost" coming out of Apple lately.

Maybe I'm not really an Apple person at all. I want to have control over my own hardware, I want to play with it. If I want to background apps, then let me do it - let me put my phone in "power user" mode and if it kills my battery life, then that's my own problem. I want to run programs, even if they are sluggish. I want to manage my own music on my own hardware - not work through one gateway onto and off of the device (iTunes). I love my iPhone, but I'm not sure that I'm really an "Apple person".

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: pm

I'm not sure that I'm really an "Apple person".

LOL, I hear you, I have >$100K of Apple stock and don't use their products. I nearly have an orgasm every day their stock goes up, it's flipping $190 ATM.

 

[Bateluer]

Obligatory: I'll be anything if its shiny and made by Apple.