Ion cannon

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Eeezee

Diamond Member
Jul 23, 2005
9,922
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The Tiberium Dawn ion cannon was highly useful - one shot would take out any SAM site (so long as it was open, ie send an orca over and fire when it gets ready to shoot).

The C&C3 one was definitely best, even if it didn't "leave a crater" (as though that's such a big deal - it only works if the building is completely destroyed, and most maps have plenty of room to build anyway).

I really liked the Nod defense structures in C&C3. Obviously the Obelisk owns in all circumstances, but I really liked the turret+control center placement idea.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
126
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: CP5670
No ion cannon in the Descent games. You might be thinking of the fusion cannon.

Fusion Cannon + Mega Missile FTW!

Vulcan cannon was pretty sweet too, as were homing missiles. :D

I always liked how the fusion cannon went right through stuff. If you had a big clump of enemies, one fusion shot would often nail them all. Great around robot generators and even better against reactors due to a slight bug in the game where it would keep applying the damage constantly.

The Tiberium Dawn ion cannon was highly useful - one shot would take out any SAM site (so long as it was open, ie send an orca over and fire when it gets ready to shoot).

The SAM sites weren't particularly valuable though. :p Most of the GDI singleplayer missions had many of them scattered around the map. I used it on obelisks most of the time, although you had to do it right before attacking the base or the AI would rebuild them. In some cases they were in isolated locations though, so you could put a rifle guy on the spot to prevent it.

Speaking of C&C, check this out. :D
 

Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
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Originally posted by: CP5670
The original C&C one was actually quite useless. It was only good against obelisks and AGTs, and was too weak to destroy anything else of value.
Um, a 100% reliable insta-kill of an obelisk behind three layers of concrete was pretty much exactly what GDI needed to succeed on a frontal assault. I also remember smoking a pack of stealth tanks with the cannon right when they opened up on my harvester. Most of the ones that didn't die outright were damaged to the point they could not cloak anymore. It was also pretty decent value hitting concentrations of infantry, like those five engineers queuing into an APC in front of your opponent's barracks.

So Ion cannon was fine. Nuke, on the other hand, worked poorly against a good player who would move all their troops upon launch and who would prevent you from scouting any of their base except the choke point. And everybody still in the game at the point of you building Temple - not having died to your APC+engineer rush, Apache rush, bike swarm on harvesters, etc. - is not a bad player.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
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You're saying that the ion cannon was good but the nuke was not? :confused:

The C&C nuke could easily take out most of a base in one hit, and its blast radius was so large that you only needed to have a rough idea of where the base was. They toned down the nuke a lot (arguably too much) in RA for just this reason. It didn't take that much longer than an ion cannon to charge up either, considering that it did like 20x more damage in total. In any case, most multiplayer games didn't last to the superweapons stage at all.

I don't know why anyone would ever build three layers of walls especially in multiplayer, given how long it took (the wall build times were longer than in any subsequent C&C game). You could build a second obelisk in that time.
 

Pia

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,563
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I don't remember it too well anymore, other than that indeed, the superweapons were almost never built. I just remember sometimes using the ion cannon for useful stuff. I don't remember using or liking the nuke much. Maybe it was a case of how they complemented the other stuff available. With the cannon, when you'd use it at a precise moment against an obelisk or powerplant just as you had tanks rolling in, the tanks were the component that did the damage. The cannon was to thank for a lot of that damage, having made the tanks survive. Nuke did a lot of damage, but like I said, good players would mitigate a lot of it, and in the end the nuke did not destroy many buildings, just hurt them and force repair. More often than not NOD would not have access to the GDI base to mop up the damaged buildings.

The concrete in front of the obelisk was probably two layers more often, but the point was "enough layers that no one in their right mind will even try to shoot through". Because the only places anyone ever built defenses were natural chokepoints, you did not need a wide wall so layers came cheap. Against a good obelisk position, GDI really needed to use air, use the ion cannon, or take out the electricity. It cost too much otherwise. They didn't have quick, cheap ballistic units capable of reaching behind the concrete, such as the bike or stealth tank.
 

Kromis

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2006
5,214
1
81
Man, they really need to bring back terran destruction (craters) back to C&C3. And pavement too! Gotta love the pavement.
 

Calculator83

Banned
Nov 26, 2007
890
0
0
Originally posted by: Kromis
Man, they really need to bring back terran destruction (craters) back to C&C3. And pavement too! Gotta love the pavement.

physics is often too costly in these games
 

Ultralight

Senior member
Jul 11, 2004
990
1
76
I love the Ion Cannon in C&C 3 and as for not leaving a crater or something how about the Rift generator or the Nod Nukes? None leave craters or ridual effects.

My favorite Ion Canno is the one in Generals. You could move it for a short distance and what it did to your enemies... :evil:

Generals Nukes and Scuds would have a lingering effects as well be it radiation fallout or lethal gas nothing lived or could be built even if it was for only a short moment.
 

StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
8,628
0
0
Originally posted by: Fistandantilis
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
ion cannons ROCKED in Tie Fighter

TIE actually stands for Twin Ion Engine, thats how the TIE fighter got its name.
`bet you diddnt know that...

*sigh*... i'm sorry to say that i did indeed know that :T
 

Kromis

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2006
5,214
1
81
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
Originally posted by: Fistandantilis
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
ion cannons ROCKED in Tie Fighter

TIE actually stands for Twin Ion Engine, thats how the TIE fighter got its name.
`bet you diddnt know that...

*sigh*... i'm sorry to say that i did indeed know that :T

Every Star Wars fan MUST know that. :p
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
Originally posted by: CP5670
I like the C&C3 one the best by some distance. The original C&C one was actually quite useless. It was only good against obelisks and AGTs, and was too weak to destroy anything else of value. The TS one was more powerful and could destroy some larger structures, but still only affected four squares or something like that. The C&C3 one is more like the nukes in the previous games were.

I preferred the previous ones (the IC from Tiberium Dawn was best in its CGI incarnation at the end of the campaign).

The Nod ending where you could decide what landmark to hit was brilliant. :) You also got a cool alternate ending if you destroyed the temple with it in the final GDI mission, which showed it in action. The actual ingame one is barely enough to damage the temple about a third of the way though. :p

I liked to use the Ion Cannon along with a small strike force to take out the opponents Factory. It was a good strategy, and worked better than a nuke since it was faster and did more damage (albeit on a specialized location). The original C&C was just very fun to me though. I like the one in C&C3, but the game itself is just ok.
 

Fistandantilis

Senior member
Aug 29, 2004
845
0
0
Originally posted by: Kromis
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
Originally posted by: Fistandantilis
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
ion cannons ROCKED in Tie Fighter

TIE actually stands for Twin Ion Engine, thats how the TIE fighter got its name.
`bet you diddnt know that...

*sigh*... i'm sorry to say that i did indeed know that :T

Every Star Wars fan MUST know that. :p

OK good, I thought that I would just willy nilly throw that out just to make sure, I was bored.

 

razor2025

Diamond Member
May 24, 2002
3,010
0
71
Originally posted by: DannyLove
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
I liked Ion Cannon Frigates in Homeworld

YES, hhaha i was about to say that

Ah, nothing like a wall formation of ion cannon frigates slicing through the enemy in matter of seconds.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
126
I don't remember it too well anymore, other than that indeed, the superweapons were almost never built. I just remember sometimes using the ion cannon for useful stuff. I don't remember using or liking the nuke much. Maybe it was a case of how they complemented the other stuff available. With the cannon, when you'd use it at a precise moment against an obelisk or powerplant just as you had tanks rolling in, the tanks were the component that did the damage. The cannon was to thank for a lot of that damage, having made the tanks survive. Nuke did a lot of damage, but like I said, good players would mitigate a lot of it, and in the end the nuke did not destroy many buildings, just hurt them and force repair. More often than not NOD would not have access to the GDI base to mop up the damaged buildings.

I think you might have the RA nuke in mind, which did exactly as you say. From what I remember, the C&C nuke demolished almost any structure in roughly a 9x7 block. Even if they had moved their units out, they would often have to attack right away since they didn't have much of a base left. Spreading the base out was also not that easy in C&C, since the structures had to be exactly adjacent unlike in any of the later games. As for finishing off damaged stuff, the stealth tanks and SSM launchers (which had a huge 12 square range) worked pretty well when used together.

The ion cannon had some uses, but I think it was definitely inferior to the ones in the next two games.

I liked to use the Ion Cannon along with a small strike force to take out the opponents Factory. It was a good strategy, and worked better than a nuke since it was faster and did more damage (albeit on a specialized location). The original C&C was just very fun to me though. I like the one in C&C3, but the game itself is just ok.

I liked C&C3, although C&C was obviously much more original and innovative for its time, and also had a better story (and a cooler Kane :p) in my opinion.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
I liked C&C3, although C&C was obviously much more original and innovative for its time, and also had a better story (and a cooler Kane ) in my opinion.

I agree. I liked the fast pace of C&C versus the slow pace of Warcraft. It made you have to think quickly on your toes and prepare for anything as there were so many ways to attack successfully. (My favorite was taking a helicopter transport full of engineers into the back of the base.) But the number of effective strategies really went down in Red Alert, and it was too easy to defend against anything they could come up with. I literally never lost a multiplayer game on Red Alert over hundreds of games. I eventually gave up playing, as that just isn't fun. (I lost probably at least 1/4 of the games I played in the original C&C) Kane was awesome in the original C&C. I loved the part where he came in and shot the guy trying to give you a mission. It was great.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Originally posted by: JTsyo
Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Ahhh the Ion Frigate from HW2. They built the gun, then stuck some engines on it.

Yes, the paper-mache ship. Currently playing through HW2 again and these die in no time. I miss those multi-ion cannon ships from HW1 that you could capture.

Hehe... I remember capturing so many of those with salvage ships in HW1... it was well worth it for later missions!

Those ships were awesome. I think I captured 30 or 40 of them on one play through. Anybody else use the ICF Ball 'O Death during the last couple levels? 40-50 ICFs completely pizzowned the Taidanii MS.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
126
Originally posted by: Martimus
I liked C&C3, although C&C was obviously much more original and innovative for its time, and also had a better story (and a cooler Kane ) in my opinion.

I agree. I liked the fast pace of C&C versus the slow pace of Warcraft. It made you have to think quickly on your toes and prepare for anything as there were so many ways to attack successfully. (My favorite was taking a helicopter transport full of engineers into the back of the base.) But the number of effective strategies really went down in Red Alert, and it was too easy to defend against anything they could come up with. I literally never lost a multiplayer game on Red Alert over hundreds of games. I eventually gave up playing, as that just isn't fun. (I lost probably at least 1/4 of the games I played in the original C&C)

Yeah, I thought C&C's online gameplay was certainly better than that of RA. Light or heavy tank rushes were too effective in RA, while many other units were nerfed in some way that limited their usefulness. The two sides weren't well balanced either apart from the basic tanks.

I still spent far more time playing RA though, due to its skirmish mode and much improved mod support (and better fanmade modding tools as well). I still have the old TC I worked on and load it up occasionally, and had also made a pretty nice desert tileset and a few other things for it.

Kane was awesome in the original C&C. I loved the part where he came in and shot the guy trying to give you a mission. It was great.

"Your mission is so secret, even Kane knows nothing of it yet. You see, power shifts quickly in the brotherhood."

...

"Ah yes, power shifts more quickly than some people think."

:D
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
"Your mission is so secret, even Kane knows nothing of it yet. You see, power shifts quickly in the brotherhood."

...

"Ah yes, power shifts more quickly than some people think."

That was a great line.