Involuntary Euthanasia anyone?

[NikPreviousAcct]

Someone brought up an interesting topic, but I don't necessarily want to be frowned on.

What are your views of Euthanasia? Should we be killing our old people just because they do not add to society like we think they should be and that they're taking up resources that could be helping others??

My decision is no, but post your ideas and lets see what all kids of views people have!





Atleast say why you approve/disapprove of it, if you do decide to post.

 

[chipbgt]

Killing old people that we deem as non contributing members of society is about as insane as say, killing an unborn child.

Oh wait, we already do that. Seems we are more vile than I thought.

 

[syber321]

The knowledge that elderly people hold is more important than a lot of people realize. If no one is there to lead you past obstacles, you'll just keep stumbling over the same obstacles and you'll never get where you want to go.

 

[BoberFett]

That knowledge isn't doing much good sitting around in musty nursing homes. I say kill 'em.

 

[DaBoneHead]

Euthanasia, I thought that was a personal decision. The decision to end ones own life due to extreme circumstances, such as being brain-dead. (guess we could whack alot of politicians and lawyers on that one, hmm, Euthanasia is starting to sound good!)

But seriously, I had a Grandmother who had alzheimers, and it was awful. The last 8 months of her life wasn't life. It was torture for her and our family. When she was passing, we made the decision not to take any great measures (respirator, etc...) to pro-long her life. That, in a way, was euthanasia. Other forms of Euthanasia, only examples, I get diagnosed with with terminal cancer, I live it up a bit, then whack myself when it starts getting bad. Another form of Euthanasia.

In some states, Oregan I know for sure, they have no ban on Euthanasia, so long as it seems reasonable.

I guess my answer to your question is, Euthanasia is a personal decision, best left to each of us. And I hope none of you out there in AnandLand have to ever make it.

 

[BoberFett]

Actually it's not a personal decision DaBoneHead. The goverment has made efforts to take that decision from you. Just ask Dr. Kevorkian.

 

[DaBoneHead]

Kevorkian was a loon who defied a judges order and because of it he gets to spend the rest of his life as "bunk-mate" with Guido-the-killer-pimp.

besides, like i said it is personal. Why do you need the help of a ghoul like him. He is a very strange individual.

I think you might be indirectly referring to 'State Sponsored Euthanasia', but then you head down the 'logans-run' concept. The state will never *directly* sponsor euthanasia, simply because the state derives its power from the individual, so it doesn't make sense to kill the individual, unless while carrying out some form of capital punishment (which i'm also opposed to).

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

uh, DaBoneHead, finding out you had terminal disease, living it up, then killing yourself is called suicide, not euthanasia.

And the deal about your grandmother: you have my condolences (no matter how worthless to you they may be), but that is not euthanasia either. I can't think of the name that is given it, but I know it's not technically euthanasia. That's making a decision not to let someone suffer.

And euthenasia is not a decision made by those who are going to be killed. It's a decision by the younger, stronger, healthier people of the society who want the resources that the elderly are taking up for themselves.

I'm not talking about doctor assisted suicide, either!!! I'm talking about killing elderly people who are healthy enough to live and who do not want to die. Some people want the money that is going to aid the elderly going somewhere else. Some want the property. Whatever it may be, it's sick. How can you put a price on someone's life? How can you say "this piece of property is of greater value to the world than a person's life"??

 

[Windogg]

Youths in Asia?

 

[DaBoneHead]

Cobalt,

I guess none of us know what it is then, but I do have a name for what you are talking about...

murder

I'm going to consult mr. webster, BRB!

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

IMO, that comes pretty close to it, man.

 

[DaBoneHead]

eu·tha·na·sia (yth-nzh, -zh-)
n.

The act or practice of ending the life of an individual suffering from a terminal illness or an incurable condition, as by lethal injection or the suspension of extraordinary medical treatment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Greek a good death: eu-, eu- + thanatos, death.]

From the mouth of webster...

I think your friend saw one too many episodes of Logan's Run, where at the age of 35 you were 'recycled' for the rest of the population.

This isn't a flame, but it is a serious issue. I figure, one day, I'll be confronted with it again. I'm not looking forward to it, but it is inevitable.

~Peace.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

There are different forms of euthanasia, but in general euthanasia means the deliberate action/omission that leads to one's death. Euthanasia is Greek to literally mean "good death". Euthanasia comes in several forms:

voluntary passive euthanasia - legal in most US states and pretty much standard in hospitals, it's when doctors 'allow nature to take its course' by removing respirators etc. at the wish of the patient

voluntary active euthanasia - illegal in all countries except the Netherlands, it's when doctors take active steps that lead to a patient's desired death, with procedures such as lethal injection.

non-voluntary euthanasia - euthanasia carried out without but not against the patient's wishes

involuntary euthanasia - euthanasia carried out against the wishes of the patient. the type of euthanasia ffmcobalt is talking about. illegal everywhere with nearly complete consensus that it is immoral.

 

[ltk007]

I think that euthanasia is reasonable if the person who is euthanized is suffering. If they have absolutely no mental capacity and are hooked up to a machine I think it is reasonable to let them die. If a person is in the final stages of disease such as cancer, in pain and suffering greatly on the brink of death euthanasia should be provided if they request it. However if someone has just found out that they are going to die and their quality of life is still good then there is no reason for their life to end prematurely.


All IMO, plus there are exeptions to every rule.

 

[Swag1138]

I am stolidly against the youth in asia! the little bugge......

Oooohhh, Euthanasia......umm........*looks at dictionary.com* I was against it, but watching my grandpa suffer in the hospital, deeply in Alzheimers, with his body shutting down, I could see the other side.

 

[syber321]

Well, I don't know...I've never had a parent/grandparent have to go through alzheimers or anything like that. Something just doesn't sit right in actually killing them though. I mean, if you take off the support, in a way that's just not stopping nature. Then again, most of medical science would then be stopping nature too. I guess it'd be good if it was completely voluntary by yourself, but if you can't even reason...then that's another story...

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

okay okay okay okay
I changed the subject to what I should have had it to begin with.

 

[Comp10]

There is a huge problem with involuntary euthanasia and it comes from the very core of our species. We are flawed. Like it or not, we make mistakes, constantly, and who are we to judge who is of use to our society? I have a much simpler solution to the problem, let people die naturaly. Thats right, don't hook them up to machines keeping them alive, dont give them a heart transplant, let them go. I can't understand why we have this horrible fear of death. We CONSTANTLY destroy living things around us, yet why are we so affraid to let nature consume us? Because we are all hypocrits perhaps? When is the last time you stopped while eating a hamburger to wonder if the cow who it came from was afraid of dying? When is the last time you payed attention to the skeleton of your house which came from the corpse of a tree? No, of course you didnt notice because from the day we are born we are taught that the human species is all mighty and everything is here to service OUR needs. We are doing the equivelent of involuntary euthanasia to the entire world. I cannot understand why we must always attempt to control everything. The world has lived in perfect harmony of life and death for millions upon millions of years, yet in our infinite arrogance we decided to change all that for our own selfish needs. Sorry, guess I got into a bit of a rant there, but i'm simply getting tired of watching our world slowly die while we placidly smile thinking everything will work out as long as we are controlling things.

 

[DarK SagE]

Ur telling me that if you had this little five year old boy and he got hit by a car. The only thing keeping him alive was a reperator. You are telling me that you would pull the plug? That you would just let him die? You would let him die when there is at least a tiny chance that he might survive?

If you say yes, then in my opinion, you're a very, very misguided person.

 

[Yeeny]

Involuntary euthanasia is murder, plain and simple. There is no difference between shooting somebody or giving them an injection to kill them, if they don't want to die. Just imagine what our world would be like, if somebody could legally take your life, because they felt it was not worth living. Some of the smartest people in the world are in their 90's, or older.

 

[Comp10]

<< Ur telling me that if you had this little five year old boy and he got hit by a car. The only thing keeping him alive was a reperator. You are telling me that you would pull the plug? That you would just let him die? You would let him die when there is at least a tiny chance that he might survive? >>



Well its a little different when someone is injured because of unatural causes. I was reffering more to people who are dying from a more natural source such as old age, etc. And the way I see it the child's death is simply not a waste, even if we did do nothing to save him. Thats the beuaty of nature, the death of one organism is the benefit of another. I cannot understand how we can expect other species to sacrafice there own lives so we may live, yet we are not willing to do the same.

 

[Mandrill]

If the kid was brain dead, what would be the point of artificially keeping him alive? And is he really alive? The pulse is going, the lungs are going up and down, but the brain is not functioning. Is that still considered &quot;Life&quot;? Is life the pumping of the blood or is life the thinking and the thought?

There was a case a few years ago of a baby who was born without a brain. It had the brain stem which controls your respiration, heart beat, etc. But there was cerabellum or cerebrum. Just the stem. Is this baby then &quot;alive&quot;? It had to be fed intraveniously as could not eat on its own. It would never walk. Never talk. Never open it's eyes. Never love. Never do anything a person would be able to do except respirate.
Would you keep this baby hooked up to artificial means or would you let is go?

Comp 10:

The reason why we are afraid of death is our will to live. All creature have it. Nothing wants to die but death is the way of all things. Life feeds on life, feeds on life...etc....

&quot;When is the last time you stopped while eating a hamburger to wonder if the cow who it came from was afraid of dying? &quot;

Does the beaver who is building his dam stop to think if the tree was afraid of dying? Does the lion on the Sarengehtti give pause while eating a gazzelle and wonder if the gazzelle was afraid of dying? The answer would be no.

Do you think about the cow when you eat the hamburger? Or if you are a vegan, do you give pause before you eat your vegetables? They are life as well. Life feeds on life.

&quot;The world has lived in perfect harmony of life and death for millions upon millions of years, yet in our infinite arrogance we decided to change all that for our own selfish needs&quot;

The world will continue on for millions of years. Nature will find a way. Life will go on no matter what we do. Will it look the same as we see it now? That remains to be seen. Rest assured, life will persist on Earth until the sun decideds to go supernova. Humans and our time of exisistance is a no more than a blink in the few billion year time line of our planet. The Dinosaurs went thru a mass extinction. A massive amount of life forms both plant and animal died out in a very short period of time and life continued just fine. Dinosaurs we the dominant life form ont he planet before the extinction. Humans are now the top life form on the planet. Next time it may be the bee's. Every few thousand years, there is an ice age. Perhaps every few hundred or so million years, there is a mass extiction. Kinda like nature wiping the slate clean and starting over.


That being said, I do agree with you that things should change. Just because life will still exisist no matter what, doesn't mean humans should treat other forms of life with respect and care.


Now back to the topic. Involuntary euthanasia is wrong. Voluntary euthanasia is right. Why should someone suffer needlesly because we think it is wrong for them to ask for release? After all, we aren't the ones being eaten to the bone from cancer. How humane is it of usto say to a person who has no hope for recovery, who is in terrible pain,&quot;Sorry. We cannot allow you to end your suffering because we feel that it just isn't right. Have a nice day.&quot;? how humane is it to sit and watch a loved ones systems shut down but insist that we keep them hooked up to machines? Are we keeping them alive for their benefit or for our own?

 

[DarK SagE]

Fine Comp10, replace car accident with cancer. A form of cancer that is generly fatal and in a late stage. Now, there is always a chance that he may survive and small as it may be i seriously doubt that any self respecting parent would condem the child to defeat.

It's very easy to talk about nature's will, or god's will or what ever the hell you may beleive in. But the fact is when it's someone you know and love...

But, i'm done rambling i have crossed the line between what can be considered related to this topic.

 

[Comp10]

You raise a fine point Dark Sage, however when I see the destruction we are bringing down on this world I do feel as though I am watching a family member die. I'm not suggesting that we ban all medicine and never do anything to help any one, far from it. However what I am suggesting is that we step back and look at the larger picture of what our actions are doing to the world as a whole, just not our species.

 

[DanC]

Notice how I'm staying conspicuously out of this one?