Introduction to smartphones?

[Muse]

I just so happen to own an iPhone 4 (Verizon/PagePlus), Nokia 521 and Garmin nuvi 2595 LMT among other gadgets. If you're not in a rush to open your Garmin, I'd be happy to video record a Nokia 521 vs Garmin 2595 quick comparison but I won't have time until this weekend.

If you want to, I don't know how helpful it will be, there's probably little I'd know from it in terms of "can I understand what I'm hearing from the device." Whatever you do, don't get in an accident doing it! Thanks for your help! And, no, I'm not in a rush to open the Garmin package.

I'm seriously considering the Nokia 520, possibly keeping the Garmin as well. If I don't get good coverage with the Nokia, it's no tragedy. Fact is, I don't know that I would be making calls on it at home, so coverage at home isn't necessarily a big deal. To make me abandon my dumb phone (the minutes expire every 120 days if I don't put at least $10 into the kitty), I'd have to get 1/2 way decent coverage with the Nokia when out and about. I could keep both for a while, I imagine, although I suppose I'd need a new number for the Nokia if I go that route. I wonder one thing just now: If I get a new number for the Nokia and at a future time determine that the AT&T coverage is adequate, can I ditch the dumb phone and move its number over to the Nokia?

 

[RossMAN]

Have you seen this hot deal?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2367915

 

[notposting]

I placed my order for that deal last Tuesday and have gone back and forth with chat/phone/twitter support and have yet to receive any order confirmation. They did charge my card 8 days ago though. :/

Only reason I even knew there was an order was checking my CC recent activity. Nothing shows on their website.

*IF* I ever get the 520, I will run a quick offline GPS test to see what kind of speed you get picking up sats.

I will say a phone generally does a lot better than a standalone GPS in inclement weather and city environments. It can use the towers for two things: download data on sat location to assist in the initial fix, and also use the towers for triangulating location (they also utilize wifi for this, all those observed hotspots are little location fixes).

As for PagePlus -- in general, you are limited to 3G CDMA phones. Depending on the OS, you can hack a 4G LTE phone onto the network, but it's not a given.

 

[Muse]

Have you seen this hot deal?
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2367915

I hadn't seen it. I bought the Nokia Lumia 520 last night off Amazon for $59.99. Should arrive next Tuesday, Amazon estimates. I like that deal OK. I can monkey around with the Nokia, try it as an MP3 music player in the gym. Nokia's spec says it has FM, I'll try that. It's bigger and heavier than the MP3 player I use, but that's 2GB and the Nokia has 8GB plus the card slot. I will have a look/listen to the GPS. I guess the foremost question is can I make out the instructions. The Garmin allows you to choose a voice, don't think the Nokia does. I am not going to grouse on the voice as long as I can understand it!

Figure I'll get a cheap phone plan, maybe one of the ones at Airvoice, that's the only one I've had a look at. No hurry on that, suppose the GPS and music, downloads, wifi and other stuff will keep me busy for a while. But I want to check out the phone coverage, and I guess even a plan as cheap as Airvoice's $10 for 3 months on AT&T's network will let me do that.

https://www.airvoicewireless.com/PlansB.aspx


The cheapest plan seems to be $10 for 3 months + $1/month maintenance fee. It's almost as cheap as the one I have at PagePlusCellular for my dumb phone, which is $10 every 4 months for 10 cents/minute. Airvoice's rate for this plan is:
10 cents/minute
10 cents/text message
6.6 cents/MB data

I have zero idea what that data rate amounts to in practical terms or in comparison with other plans.

Airvoice has a $10/month plan, same data rate but 4 cents/minute calls and 2 cents/text message. I've sent only 1 or 2 text messages in my life, IIRC, on my dumb phone. At the rate I've been making calls I think the plan detailed above, $52/year plan (including maintenance fees), might be the best for me, unless my habits change.

Meantime I will hang onto my Garmin GPS in its unopened box. If I figure the Nokia won't work as a GPS for me, I'll keep the Garmin, otherwise return it to B&M Costco (assuming they do that), next time I go there, which I figure to be in a few weeks.

 

[notposting]

PS check out WPCentral for tips, advice, app suggestions on your new phone

I jumped to WP in 2011 and have been really happy, I am really excited with reports of what WP 8.1 should bring to the table.

 

[Muse]

PS check out WPCentral for tips, advice, app suggestions on your new phone

I jumped to WP in 2011 and have been really happy, I am really excited with reports of what WP 8.1 should bring to the table.

Thanks for the tips. I just registered at WP Central.

As one of my coworkers once said I'm "a real Windows guy." He was observing me working my computer. It must have been running Windows NT back around 2000. I've operated only Windows computers since 1993 when I bought a 3.1 machine used. It's not that I'm tethered to Windows. I'd use an open source OS, just never have. I do curse Bill Gates every time I am frustrated with what I perceive to be bad service in Windows, which happens a LOT! A friend of mine (who was running some flavor of Linux) told me he thought Windows was "evil." He didn't elaborate and I didn't pry. I have to use iOS at my volunteer gig, but don't really know my way around it too well. I am pretty familiar with a lot of the Windows structure and concepts. Have never used Windows 8, and I figure that WP is another animal, just don't know, have never used it either. In Windows 7, I do wish MS hadn't hidden a lot of stuff that used to be more apparent, at least to me, e.g. Control Panel components. I still use XP a lot (this machine is XP), and find it easier. I figure most of that stuff is still there, it's just not where I'm used to finding it. Kind of drives me nuts. I never use the Start Button unless I have to. Any shortcuts I need I either drop on my desktop or into a certain desktop folder. Open that folder and all my shortcuts are right there in alphabetical order, or sometimes tucked in appropriate subfolders. I find this so much more convenient than the Start Button, whose behavior (and sub behaviors) can be annoyingly inconsistent. I don't know what those people were thinking when they designed that stuff!

 

[notposting]

Well, WP is definitely *not* Windows in that regard -- in many ways, Android is sort of the successor to old desktop Windows and Windows Mobile.

WP is a lot more similar to iOS in that way, as it is designed for more of a limited depth (consume versus create). Not to say they can't be amazingly useful though.

(re: Control Panel components in later Windows, the built in search is the way to go for finding them, IMO)

[aside: in the long run, I think they are all working toward Star Trek computing abilities, basically. I should be able to say "Computer, find me a way around this mess" and the car navigation should know what I mean, and be intelligent enough to do a good job of it]

 

[Muse]

Well, WP is definitely *not* Windows in that regard -- in many ways, Android is sort of the successor to old desktop Windows and Windows Mobile.

WP is a lot more similar to iOS in that way, as it is designed for more of a limited depth (consume versus create). Not to say they can't be amazingly useful though.

(re: Control Panel components in later Windows, the built in search is the way to go for finding them, IMO)

Exactly, that's the way I find them, but it's kind of a pain to have to imagine what search arguments will work. I'd rather have them all laid out in front of me to choose from.

[aside: in the long run, I think they are all working toward Star Trek computing abilities, basically. I should be able to say "Computer, find me a way around this mess" and the car navigation should know what I mean, and be intelligent enough to do a good job of it]

Yeah, Beam me up,Scotty! That will never happen. Made for some fun TV. But yes, reasonably good voice recognition algorithms + microphone should make this possible. The thing is, all this traffic didn't exist 50 years ago. They've built umpteen $%)()*&)%^2000 miles of "freeways" and added far too many cars and now they have gridlock, not just at rush hour. It's one reason I don't drive so much anymore. I roller skate and bicycle whenever feasible.

 

[Muse]

This looks to be a good place to get started with Windows Phone:

Windows Phone 8 How-to

 

[RossMAN]

Nokia's spec says it has FM, I'll try that. It's bigger and heavier than the MP3 player I use, but that's 2GB and the Nokia has 8GB plus the card slot.

I wonder if it's a real FM tuner or fake and requires an internet connection (which uses $ data $ unless you have wifi nearby)? If it's a real FM tuner, that's awesome and something I would use a lot on my commute to/from work. On my Nokia 521 I'm unable to find the FM tuner, perhaps I'll open my Nokia 520 and check it out but it should be the same, I think.

Figure I'll get a cheap phone plan, maybe one of the ones at Airvoice, that's the only one I've had a look at. No hurry on that, suppose the GPS and music, downloads, wifi and other stuff will keep me busy for a while. But I want to check out the phone coverage, and I guess even a plan as cheap as Airvoice's $10 for 3 months on AT&T's network will let me do that.

Unless you go crazy with internet connected apps, I think a pay as you go plan will offer the most bang for your buck. Speaking of apps (for example Chrome, Twitter, Facebook, Yelp, etc.) do you have free wifi at school/work or nearby? Considering where you live there's probably abundant free wifi everywhere.

You may also want to consider h20wireless although I didn't compare the plans to see which is better for your needs.

 

[Muse]

I wonder if it's a real FM tuner or fake and requires an internet connection (which uses $ data $ unless you have wifi nearby)? If it's a real FM tuner, that's awesome and something I would use a lot on my commute to/from work. On my Nokia 521 I'm unable to find the FM tuner, perhaps I'll open my Nokia 520 and check it out but it should be the same, I think.

I'll look for a forum to post the question about FM tuner and post back.

Edit: I did a search and found a 0:58 Youtube video that shows (without words) a user working the FM. A message can be seen indicating that the headphones are employed as an antenna. Thus, evidently, FM can be accessed offline. I hope it does a good job!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS5kQSEuzgU

I read some threads here and there discussing the hoops you have to traverse to activate the FM function. Has something to do with an "Amber" update of some kind, some other stuff.

Unless you go crazy with internet connected apps, I think a pay as you go plan will offer the most bang for your buck. Speaking of apps (for example Chrome, Twitter, Facebook, Yelp, etc.) do you have free wifi at school/work or nearby? Considering where you live there's probably abundant free wifi everywhere.

The only one I can think of is my local library, a ~1 minutes bike ride to the newly rebuilt branch (they tore the old one down to the ground and put up totally new buildings, took over a year... I haven't taken the time to check it out yet). Well, I have wifi at home, so.... I have a volunteer gig at the university but only students and faculty get wifi.

You may also want to consider h20wireless although I didn't compare the plans to see which is better for your needs.

Thanks, I will definitely check that out.

I'm excited to get my first smartphone next week! :awe:

 

[Muse]

I wonder one thing just now: If I get a new number for the Nokia (for the time being keeping my dumb phone with its number) and at a future time determine that the Nokia's AT&T coverage is adequate, can I ditch the dumb phone and move its number over to the Nokia?

One more question: If I get a prepaid plan somewhere (e.g. Airvoice, or whatever), will they send me a SIM to install in the phone? Is that how it works?

 

[RossMAN]

Two great questions.

I wonder one thing just now: If I get a new number for the Nokia (for the time being keeping my dumb phone with its number) and at a future time determine that the Nokia's AT&T coverage is adequate, can I ditch the dumb phone and move its number over to the Nokia?

When you first register your cell phone you'll be given a new temporary phone number, if you decide keep the Nokia 520 you can "port" your number from your current carrier to the new carrier. So your current phone number will now be associated with your Nokia 520, I think some cell phone companies charge to port.

One more question: If I get a prepaid plan somewhere (e.g. Airvoice, or whatever), will they send me a SIM to install in the phone? Is that how it works?

Yes and make sure to get a micro SIM, I would get the micro SIM before your phone arrives.

 

[cronos]

Yes and make sure to get a micro SIM, I would get the micro SIM before your phone arrives.

Adding to that, you might want to get your Airvoice (or any other MVNO's) wireless sim card from amazon/ebay where they can often be found at $0.99/piece or less with free shipping, rather than from the Airvoice/other websites for $4.99+.

 

[Muse]

Adding to that, you might want to get your Airvoice (or any other MVNO's) wireless sim card from amazon/ebay where they can often be found at $0.99/piece or less with free shipping, rather than from the Airvoice/other websites for $4.99+.

Are there any caveats? What exactly do I want to look for? Just a Nokia Lumia 520 microSIM card? Is that all there is to it? That will work for any MVNO? Or is the microSIM card I might buy off ebay going to be specific to a particular MVNO?

I've been reading a LOT of owner reviews on Amazon (amazing stuff!!!). I don't understand it all by a long shot but have learned a ton anyway, and it's exciting! I'm more and more convinced I bought the smartphone that's right for me at this point in time.

I see a LOT of posts by people who had to "cut down" their SIM card. I suppose that means what? They had a SIM card from another phone that wasn't a microSIM card? They in many if not all instances bought a device or kit expressly to actually cut their card so it will fit in the 520, evidently. Presumably this won't apply to me in any way right now, however I'm curious. Does the 520 come with a SIM card, presumably a microSIM card? If so, why do I need to buy another?

I'm seeing a lot of reviews by people who got their 520 unlocked in a variety of ways. Obviously they need a code to do that. Some got their code from AT&T. Many said they were traveling internationally to do that. AT&T usually requires people to wait some before issuing the code. That seems to vary. The maximum wait time seems to be 6 months, but some have gotten them sooner. I don't know that I need mine unlocked or that I would have a benefit. I guess that would let me use a different carrier than AT&T, and I might want to do that. My alternate choice might only be T-Mobile, don't know. One guy got his code quickly because he was a solid AT&T customer for many years.

My sense of it from reading reviews is that I don't want to contact AT&T unless I need to. Some of their actions and policies can be very dicey and frustrating, is my sense of it. Well, I read some stuff suggesting that. I used to be an AT&T DSL customer for many years but moved my IPS to sonic.net, who use AT&T's phone lines for my DSL and phone. Sonic.net are 100 times more helpful in terms of customer service that AT&T, has been my experience. Not always great, but at least you can get a live person quickly.

 

[Viper GTS]

SIM cards are provided by your carrier, they don't come with phones (except of course when you buy the phone from your carrier and are starting a new line).

If you have an older phone that uses one of the older SIM sizes you can physically cut it down to size as the extra space is just unused plastic.

Viper GTS

 

[Muse]

You may also want to consider h20wireless although I didn't compare the plans to see which is better for your needs.

I just searched on H2Owireless, watched a ~13 minute video by a geek who said the phone service is excellent but the data is so severely throttled as to be pretty much useless. He was getting 144kb download speeds and his AT&T service was 5-10MB. Everything buffered every 1/2 minute including music streaming, Youtube videos. He said don't even think about Netflix. He concluded that it's great if you just make calls but if you have a smartphone, it sucks. Well, I may make that tradeoff if MVNO's all have those shortcomings. I don't need videos/streaming on a mobile device. I can do my downloading at home over wifi and use my big displays for video. It can probably still suck down web pages decently, I'm guessing, to see stuff like weather, stock quotes, news... maybe without breaking the bank on data use.

 

[RossMAN]

Are there any caveats? What exactly do I want to look for? Just a Nokia Lumia 520 microSIM card? Is that all there is to it? That will work for any MVNO? Or is the microSIM card I might buy off ebay going to be specific to a particular MVNO?

Yes the SIM cards are specific to the MVNO. There is another easier option if you're lazy and/or in a hurry, you can *gasp* pay retail and have a cell phone dealer cut the SIM card for you instantly. Wait for your phone to arrive then take it to a local dealer who can give you a brand new micro SIM card, activate and sell your airtime all in one stop shopping. Yes you may pay an additional $15 or so for the convenience but like I said if you're lazy or in a hurry, you'll receive instant gratification.

I1Phone, LLC
2594 Telegraph Avenue, Berkeley, California (CA), 94704
Phone: 510-644-2277
Hours: 10:30 am ~ 7:30 pm, Sunday Closed
The location is in the cross street of Telegraph and Parker st
Carriers Sold Here: T-mobile, Simple mobile, Page PLus, H2O, Cricket, Red Pocket etc

I just searched on H2Owireless, watched a ~13 minute video by a geek who said the phone service is excellent but the data is so severely throttled as to be pretty much useless. He was getting 144kb download speeds and his AT&T service was 5-10MB. Everything buffered every 1/2 minute including music streaming, Youtube videos. He said don't even think about Netflix. He concluded that it's great if you just make calls but if you have a smartphone, it sucks.

If you're certain you're going to actually need or use cell phone data then it's going to cost you a little more. If this is true I would check out AIO. If you don't mind paying $40 - $60 every month there are some great choices out there.

HoFo is the AnandTech of the cell phone community. I would highly recommend registering for an account, read the forum rules, use the search button and ask questions.

http://forums.androidcentral.com/other-us-carriers/313162-best-att-mvno.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_network_operators

 

[Muse]

SIM cards are provided by your carrier, they don't come with phones (except of course when you buy the phone from your carrier and are starting a new line).

If you have an older phone that uses one of the older SIM sizes you can physically cut it down to size as the extra space is just unused plastic.

Viper GTS

Thanks. I checked out the Moto G you suggested, just yesterday. The biggest knock on it seems to be the memory limit. No microSDHC support, and I think the internal memory is just 8GB. The Nokia 520 can accommodate up to a 64GB microSDHC card. The price for the Moto G looks to be $200 or so and its Android. My use, at least initially, won't justify a $30 plan. I won't know what I'm missing in terms of apps, at least initially. I think the apps for Windows Phone are going to come, at least that's what people are saying. Basic apps are there already.

 

[Muse]

Yes the SIM cards are specific to the MVNO. There is another easier option if you're lazy and/or in a hurry, you can *gasp* pay retail and have a cell phone dealer cut the SIM card for you instantly. Wait for your phone to arrive then take it to a local dealer who can give you a brand new micro SIM card, activate and sell your airtime all in one stop shopping. Yes you may pay an additional $15 or so for the convenience but like I said if you're lazy or in a hurry, you'll receive instant gratification.

I1Phone, LLC
2594 Telegraph Avenue, Berkeley, California (CA), 94704
Phone: 510-644-2277
Hours: 10:30 am ~ 7:30 pm, Sunday Closed
The location is in the cross street of Telegraph and Parker st
Carriers Sold Here: T-mobile, Simple mobile, Page PLus, H2O, Cricket, Red Pocket etc

I'm not that lazy or in a hurry. I'm going to do some searching, reading of threads before acting. I'm thinking right now maybe the Airvoice $10 for 3 months at 10 cents/call, 10 cents/text, 6.6 cents/MB data will work for me. It won't let me experience all the glory of a smartphone because I figure the data download speed probably is terrible, but I don't yet know that for a fact. That's part of my research. I'm such a newbie I just don't know how to waffle between plans. Reading posts I see that even very experienced users have YMMV experiences dealing with the complexities of certain phones, carriers and plans. Concepts like SIMs, cutting SIMs, where to get them, unlocking them, ADN's, possible locks and carrier's policies, other concepts and complexities that are utterly beyond me including a variety of acronyms...it's got my head spinning.

If you're certain you're going to actually need or use cell phone data then it's going to cost you a little more. If this is true I would check out AIO. If you don't mind paying $40 - $60 every month there are some great choices out there.

I don't want to pay that much. Maybe for a bit to get my feet wet if I were convinced I could migrate to a simple and cheap pay-as-you-go plan subsequently.

It's not the calls and texting to any degree that concern me presently. My current dumb phone plan through PagePlusCellular gives me $10 worth of calls expiring in 120 days at 10 cents/minute and I don't nearly use that! It's nice fast data that I'd like but figure it will really cost me to get that. Maybe I can work something like that on a temporary basis. I figure the MVNO's are all going to have really slow data, but that's not something I really know, it's just something I'm deducing by virtue of watching one video today on H2Owireless.

HoFo is the AnandTech of the cell phone community. I would highly recommend registering for an account, read the forum rules, use the search button and ask questions.

http://forums.androidcentral.com/other-us-carriers/313162-best-att-mvno.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_mobile_virtual_network_operators

Looking, I see that I'm already subscribed to the Howard Forums, back in 2009. I was having trouble logging in back then, but did so today. Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to continue to research all this stuff. I was mistaken, the phone is not due to arrive on Tuesday Feb. 18. It's sometime from then until Feb. 24. Don't know why it's taking so long, I ordered it Tuesday and it was supposed to be in stock. Anyway, there's no practical reason on earth why I'd need it sooner!

 

[notposting]

HoFo is pretty good, though the WP area may be lacking (not sure, haven't looked in awhile). They are for sure the masters of various contract and technology options. Otherwise, I think for various mobile OS's a more specific site can be better.

WP is coming along -- sounds like WP 8.1 should be very competitive. I'm signed up for the Developer Preview program, you can actually sign up for free. It basically circumvents carrier holdups and lets you get the next OS version a bit pre release. I had GDR3, the final version, months before it officially released to my Verizon phone this week. You do run the risk of warranty etc etc. I really hope MS does something like the Nexus program with their Nokia purchase.

 

[Muse]

HoFo is pretty good, though the WP area may be lacking (not sure, haven't looked in awhile). They are for sure the masters of various contract and technology options. Otherwise, I think for various mobile OS's a more specific site can be better.

WP is coming along -- sounds like WP 8.1 should be very competitive. I'm signed up for the Developer Preview program, you can actually sign up for free. It basically circumvents carrier holdups and lets you get the next OS version a bit pre release. I had GDR3, the final version, months before it officially released to my Verizon phone this week. You do run the risk of warranty etc etc. I really hope MS does something like the Nexus program with their Nokia purchase.

Ah, I wasn't aware that Microsoft acquired (well, maybe mergered, that seems to be the term used) with Nokia. Well, that's good news for me. Obviously, MS is going to be much more interested in moving forward on WP having a stake in smartphone development and production. The posts I've read reveal a whole lot of optimism and excitement for WP going forward, some predicting that they will have equal footing with iOS and Android, even read one a couple nights ago by a person predicting supremacy! I saw a post saying that WP 8.1 will work on my 520. I suppose at some point the hardware won't support some future iteration of WP, MS OS's always seem to outgrow the hardware.

 

[Muse]

MVNO's data download speeds, I figure, are going to be terrible compared to a post paid AT&T plan. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Assuming that's so, if I get a prepaid plan with an MVNO, my question is what kind of speeds can I expect when connecting via wifi on my home wireless network? How would that compare with the 4-8MBPS (is that actually mbps?) I'd get (according to something I saw the other day online) with an AT&T post paid plan? I don't have wireless N, but a real good Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 wireless router, 802.11b/g.

Also, would my wifi connected smartphone experience using the Nokia 520 be similar to the experience of being connected via a fast data connection? If so, I'd at least know what I'm missing (away from a wifi connected space) by not having a plan featuring fast data.

 

[Belegost]

MVNO's data download speeds, I figure, are going to be terrible compared to a post paid AT&T plan. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Assuming that's so, if I get a prepaid plan with an MVNO, my question is what kind of speeds can I expect when connecting via wifi on my home wireless network? How would that compare with the 4-8MBPS (is that actually mbps?) I'd get (according to something I saw the other day online) with an AT&T post paid plan? I don't have wireless N, but a real good Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 wireless router, 802.11b/g.

Also, would my wifi connected smartphone experience using the Nokia 520 be similar to the experience of being connected via a fast data connection? If so, I'd at least know what I'm missing (away from a wifi connected space) by not having a plan featuring fast data.

On WiFi the speed will be limited by connection between the router and the phone, with a g router you should see decent performance, possibly even better than the HSDPA the 520 uses when connecting to the ATT post-paid.

 

[Muse]

Tied on my roller skates to go to the gym this afternoon and on the porch was my 1st smartphone, shipped yesterday! I didn't expect it for days. No time to remove it from package, etc. I skated to the gym and did my workout. Hyper aware this time, I figured the vast majority there had smartphones. I only asked one guy who his carrier is, he said Verizon. Keeping score, that's Verizon 2, the others 0. Got a feeling I'm going to like taking the 520 to the gym for music. Won't unpack it and get started until tomorrow morning. Will download and print the manual.