Int'l actions legitimize our policy

[Freshgeardude]

oh and Gaza- Jericho Agreement

(Annex I, Article XI)

Article XI
Security Along the Coastline and in the Sea of Gaza

1. 
   [*]Maritime Activity Zones
   
   1. Extent of Maritime Activity Zones The sea off the coast of the Gaza Strip will be divided into three Maritime Activity Zones, K, L, and M as shown on map No. 6 attached to this Agreement, and as detailed below:
      1. Zones K and M
         1. Zone K extends to 20 nautical miles in the sea from the coast in the northern part of the sea of Gaza and 1.5 nautical miles wide southwards.
         2. Zone M extends to 20 nautical miles in the sea from the coast, and one (1) nautical mile wide from the Egyptian waters.
         3. Subject to the provisions of this paragraph, Zones K and M will be closed areas, in which navigation will be restricted to activity of the Israel Navy.
      2. Zone L
         1. Zone L bounded to the south by Zone M and to the north by Zone K extends 20 nautical miles into the sea from the coast.
         2. Zone L will be open for fishing, recreation and economic activities, in accordance with the following provisions:
            1. Fishing boats will not exit Zone L into the open sea and may have engines of up to a limit of 25 HP for outboard motors and up to a maximum speed of 15 knots for inboard motors. The boats will neither carry weapons nor ammunition nor will they fish with the use of explosives.
            2. Recreational boats will be permitted to sail up to a distance of 3 nautical miles from the coast unless, in special cases, otherwise agreed within the Maritime Coordination and Cooperation Center as referred to in paragraph 3 below. Recreational boats may have engines up to a limit of 10 horsepower. Marine motor bikes and water jets will neither be introduced into Zone L nor be operated therein.
            3. Foreign vessels entering Zone L will not approach closer than 12 nautical miles from the coast except as regards activities covered in paragraph 4 below.
   2. General Rules of the Maritime Activity Zones
      1. The aforementioned fishing boats and recreational boats and their skippers sailing in Zone L shall carry licenses issued by the Palestinian Authority, the format and standards of which will be coordinated through the JSC.
      2. The boats shall have identification markings determined by the Palestinian Authority. The Israeli authorities will be notified through the JSC of these identification markings.
      3. Residents of Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip fishing in Zone L will carry Israeli licenses and vessel permits.
      4. As part of Israel's responsibilities for safety and security within the three Maritime Activity Zones, Israel Navy vessels may sail throughout these zones, as necessary and without limitations, and may take any measures necessary against vessels suspected of being used for terrorist activities or for smuggling arms, ammunition, drugs, goods, or for any other illegal activity. The Palestinian Police will be notified of such actions, and the ensuing procedures will be coordinated through the Maritime Coordination and Cooperation Center.
   
   [*]The Palestinian Coastal Police
   
   1. The Palestinian Coastal Police may function in Zone L, up to a distance of 6 nautical miles from the coast. In special cases, it may also exercise control over Palestinian fishing boats fishing in Zone L in an additional area of 6 nautical miles, up to the limit of 12 nautical miles from the coastline, after clearance and coordination through the Maritime Coordination and Cooperation Center.
   2. The Palestinian Coastal Police shall have up to 8 boats with a displacement of up to 30 tons. They will sail at a speed of up to 20 knots.
   3. The boats shall carry weapons of up to a 7.62 mm caliber.
   4. Boats of the Palestinian Coastal Police may fly a Palestinian flag, have police identification markings and shall operate identification lights.
   5. The Parties shall cooperate on all sea matters, including mutual help at sea, and pollution and environmental issues.
   6. The boats of the Palestinian Coastal Police will initially use the Gaza Wharf.
   7. Boats belonging to Israelis are solely subject to the control, authority and jurisdiction of Israel and the Israel Navy.
   
   [*]Maritime Coordination and Cooperation Center
   
   1. A Maritime Coordination and Cooperation Center (hereinafter "the MC") shall function as part of the JSC, to coordinate civil maritime activities and coastal police affairs off the coast of the Gaza Strip.
   2. The MC shall function within the relevant DCO, and will determine its own rules of procedure.
   3. The MC shall function 24 hours a day.
   4. The MC shall be staffed by members of the Israel Navy and the Palestinian Coastal Police, each providing a liaison officer and an assistant liaison officer.
   5. A direct radio telephone link (hot line) shall be set up between the Israel Navy vessels and the Palestinian Coastal Police vessels.
   6. The role of the MC is to coordinate:
      1. assistance between the Coastal Police and the Israel Navy as may be necessary to deal with incidents arising at sea;
      2. Coastal Police training involving the use of firearms;
      3. joint activities between the Coastal Police and the Israel Navy when pre-planning is operationally necessary;
      4. radio contact between Coastal Police and Israel Navy vessels in the event that "hot line" communication between vessels of the two sides was not established;
      5. search and rescue operations; and
      6. maritime activities related to an agreed port, when established in the Gaza Strip.
   
   [*]Gaza Strip Port
   
   1. Plans for the establishment of a port in the Gaza Strip in accordance with the Declaration of Principles, its location, and related matters of mutual interest and concern, as well as licenses for vessels and crews sailing on international voyages will be discussed and agreed upon between Israel and the Palestinian Authority taking into consideration the provisions of Article X of this Agreement. To this end a special committee will be established by the two sides.
   2. The Gaza Sea Port Authority referred to in the Declaration of Principles, shall act on behalf of the Palestinian Authority in accordance with the provisions of this Agreement.
   3. Pending construction of a port, arrangements for entry and exit of vessels, passengers and goods by sea, as well as licenses for vessels and crews sailing on international voyages in transit to the Gaza Strip and the Jericho Area, shall be through Israeli ports in acordance with the relevant rules and regulations applicable in Israel and in accordance with the provisions of Annex IV.

This was a signed agreement after the oslo accords.

 

[kylebisme]

None of what you cited has any applicability to international waters. So, back to square one:

International maritime law gives israel the right to stop and inspect any ship attempting to run its naval blockade.

Not out in international waters, which is why you can't cite any international law to suggest otherwise, and why:

The Foreign Ministry advised the defense establishment yesterday to wait until the Libyan aid ship reportedly headed for Gaza approaches or enters the coastal strip's territorial waters before making any attempt to stop it. The ministry made the recommendation to avoid the risk of breaking international law.

 

[Jhhnn]

Israeli spin doctors, polishing a turd... and their fanbois luv it...

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of the Libyan ship that may divert to Egypt, how Israeli victory or defeat is scored is now solely in the hands of Egypt, not Israel.

Egypt can choose to let all 2 thousand tons of supplies into Gaza through Egyptian borders, can choose to seize the cargo and turn it over to Israel, or let Israel inspect the cargo and let all non embargoed cargo into Gaza.

And Egypt also has to assess its relations, with the US, the EU, Israel, the larger Arab world, and the Egyptian man on the street. And that Egyptian calculus is further complicated by the fact that the present Egyptian fearless leader, Mubarak is very old, and can't possibly hold Egyptian leadership more than a few years more.

As I said in a previous thread, what Egypt ultimately decides to do is hard to predict,
But Egypt now has the power to totally end the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

What will Egypt decide to do, that is anyone's guess. But when it comes to the average man on the Egyptian street, they would not piss on Israel if they were on fire.

 

[kylebisme]

As I said in a previous thread, what Egypt ultimately decides to do is hard to predict...

Actually, it's simple to predict in light of the fact that Egypt gets $2 billion a year in US taxpayer dollars to keep kissing Israel's ass.

 

[Lemon law]

Actually, it's simple to predict in light of the fact that Egypt gets $2 billion a year in US taxpayer dollars to keep kissing Israel's ass.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah yes, Kyle, that may have been true in the past under previous Presidents, but will it be true of Obama?

There in lies the rub.

All Obama has to say, somewhat privately to Egypt, is that the 2 billion of US bribes will keep flowing either way, and Egypt is free to set its own course.

At the end of the day, Israel would be powerless to bitch at either the US or Egypt.

As it is, the two Egyptian motivators to co-operate with with Israel in the Gaza blockade are: (1) Egypt does not want to be stuck with assimilating penny less Gaza refugees. (2) Egypt wants to to keep US bribes coming.

Reduce those two Egyptian risks, and Egypt has a million excellent reasons to not co-operate with Israel in any way regarding any Gaza blockade.

 

[Lemon law]

Let me also ask FGD a question about his thread title of "Int'l actions legitimize our policy."

Whose policy is "our" policy???????????????????????????????????????????????

Surely FGD can't be talking about a policy that has been failing for 62 years now, has turned the entire mid-east into a powder keg, and worse yet is unsustainable by Israel. The fact is and remains, a just State of Israel can't be built on the the foundation of the oppression of 3 plus million Palestinians, nor can Israel retain the possession of disputed territory illegitimately gained.

Nor do I think that the fact the EU does not want a big confrontation over the latest ship to run the Gaza blockade is any evidence the EU still supports Israel. And the more likely explanation is that the EU prefers steady diplomacy rather than direct confrontation as a means to end the mid-east deadlock and to create a Palestinian State.

But that is just my take on the matter, everyone else is free to impose their personal opinions on the facts.

 

[kylebisme]

Ah yes, Kyle, that may have been true in the past under previous Presidents, but will it be true of Obama?

Yeah, unless he wants to insure he doesn't serve a second term, as happened to Bush Sr. when he tried to take a more even approach with the Israel/Palestine conflict.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Let me also ask FGD a question about his thread title of "Int'l actions legitimize our policy."

Whose policy is "our" policy???????????????????????????????????????????????

Surely FGD can't be talking about a policy that has been failing for 62 years now, has turned the entire mid-east into a powder keg, and worse yet is unsustainable by Israel. The fact is and remains, a just State of Israel can't be built on the the foundation of the oppression of 3 plus million Palestinians, nor can Israel retain the possession of disputed territory illegitimately gained.

Nor do I think that the fact the EU does not want a big confrontation over the latest ship to run the Gaza blockade is any evidence the EU still supports Israel. And the more likely explanation is that the EU prefers steady diplomacy rather than direct confrontation as a means to end the mid-east deadlock and to create a Palestinian State.

But that is just my take on the matter, everyone else is free to impose their personal opinions on the facts.

No, israel's policy is being legitimized by the US and EU for defending a blockade both believe is necessary to stop hamas from attacking israel with missiles and mortars every day

 

[Freshgeardude]

In terms of the Libyan ship that may divert to Egypt, how Israeli victory or defeat is scored is now solely in the hands of Egypt, not Israel.

Egypt can choose to let all 2 thousand tons of supplies into Gaza through Egyptian borders, can choose to seize the cargo and turn it over to Israel, or let Israel inspect the cargo and let all non embargoed cargo into Gaza.

And Egypt also has to assess its relations, with the US, the EU, Israel, the larger Arab world, and the Egyptian man on the street. And that Egyptian calculus is further complicated by the fact that the present Egyptian fearless leader, Mubarak is very old, and can't possibly hold Egyptian leadership more than a few years more.

As I said in a previous thread, what Egypt ultimately decides to do is hard to predict,
But Egypt now has the power to totally end the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

What will Egypt decide to do, that is anyone's guess. But when it comes to the average man on the Egyptian street, they would not piss on Israel if they were on fire.

Egypt and Israel both want to keep Hamas from arming itself. Egypt is going to follow israel's policy to keep israel its friend, and hamas disarmed

 

[Lemon law]

Yeah, unless he wants to insure he doesn't serve a second term, as happened to Bush Sr. when he tried to take a more even approach with the Israel/Palestine conflict.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kyle, you may or may not have a point, but some of your position is based on the USA being the sole decider.

All Obama has to do is not hyperspastically back EVERYTHING Israel wants.

Even with a pro Israeli press and strong pro-Israeli lobbies in the USA, Israel can't risk airing their dirty laundry in public, especially when its the rest of the world and not Obama that is airing Israelis dirty laundry in public.

As it is, today' s news involve Israel tearing down various Arab housing units in East Jerusalem, in early violation of Israel's no new settlements pledge.

As for me, I think existing Israeli policies are now on very shakey ground, and in all such situations, the policies of the past are very poor predictors of the future.

No one wants a blood bath in the mid-east but almost everyone realizes present Israeli policy is unsustainable.

 

[SandEagle]

Did the US and EU both call on the boat to go to Eygpt to avoid a conflict at the naval blockade? Was it at the request of Israel?

The answer to both questions is a solid YES.

which site I post the same story doesnt change the answers to the two questions

for a supposedly 17 yr old kid, your ass is in P&N politics quite a bit.

in any case, confrontation avoided = :thumbsup:

 

[Freshgeardude]

for a supposedly 17 yr old kid, your ass is in P&N politics quite a bit.

in any case, confrontation avoided = :thumbsup:

yep i am 17

 

[ModestGamer]

Maybe the solution is to drop MOAB's on the region till they start listening. I for one am totally over this bullshit.

 

[kylebisme]

All Obama has to do is not hyperspastically back EVERYTHING Israel wants.

Sure, that's what Bush Sr. did, and I doubt Obama has any intrest in going down that path.

 

[Lemon law]

Sure, that's what Bush Sr. did, and I doubt Obama has any intrest in going down that path.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although GHB lost the 1992 election, I have found little evidence that any of the Israel related issues had much to do with the loss. In fact some articles flat out State that your belief is a total myth.

As for Obama, he is somewhat a joker in the deck, as it is he alienates everyone by being a wishy washy compromise, he might be decide to be bold and decisive, and try to accomplish something for a change.

Under the US constitution, the Prez has little domestic power, but has an almost free hand in international relations.