"Interogation" techniques revealed

[RightIsWrong]

So, are these the kind of things that Cheney is trying to keep as options for the CIA? I wnoder how long Bush can continue to lie directly to the collective face of the American public and still have followers? "We do not torture" my a$$!


Source

CIA agents reveal interrogation tactics

WASHINGTON, (AFP) - CIA agents have revealed details of six interrogation tactics approved by top brass for use at secret CIA jails in Asia and Eastern Europe, ABC News reported.

The techniques have lead to questionable confessions and the death of one man since March 2002, the network said, after interviewing current and former CIA officials.

Former CIA officer Bob Baer told ABC the techniques amounted to "bad interrogation. I mean, you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough."

CIA sources speaking on condition of anonymity described six techniques: "Attention Grab, Attention Slap, Belly Slap, Long Time Standing, Cold Cell, Water Boarding."

The six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," as sources called them, were used on a dozen top Al-Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe, ABC said.

In "Belly Slap," interrogators deliver "a hard open-handed slap to the stomach" intended to cause pain but not internal injury.

In "Long Time Standing," prisoners are forced to stand handcuffed and shackled for more than 40 hours.

In "The Cold Cell" a prisoner is made to stand naked in a cell kept near 10 degrees C (50 degrees F) and is continually doused with cold water.

Water Boarding brings results within seconds, the sources said. A prisoner is tied onto a board with his feet higher than his head, and his face is wrapped in cellophane. When water is poured over him, he begins to gag and begs to confess, sources told ABC.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," John Sifton of Human Rights Watch told ABC.

After investigating the claims, the network asked CIA officials for comment, but they "would neither confirm nor deny the accounts. They simply declined to comment," ABC said.

Earlier this month, CIA inspector general John Helgerson said techniques used by the agency appeared to violate the international Convention Against Torture, according to current and former officials who described the report to The New York Times.

The report listed 10 techniques authorized in early 2002 that went beyond those used by the US military on prisoners of war.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Clearly, these "techniques" are nothing more than hazing. Regardless, we have the RIGHT to do anything to protect American citizens. I say we start water boarding some 9 year olds and pregnant women, if that's what it takes.

 

[GroundedSailor]

If we do these things to others what right do we have to be indignant and angry when the same or similar techniques are done on US citizens - armed forces personnel or others.

Some heads need to roll foro these and other abuses.

 

[dahunan]

I wonder how the boots on the ground feel about this..

Is this what they want to fight for.. Is this what they want done to them

I guess this is how we win the hearts and minds of the World..

Do we have any idea how many INNOCENT people we have tortured in abu-ghraib?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wonder how the boots on the ground feel about this..

Is this what they want to fight for.. Is this what they want done to them

I guess this is how we win the hearts and minds of the World..

Do we have any idea how many INNOCENT people we have tortured in abu-ghraib?

I just wish that I could see Monday's press briefing. Scotty is sure as sh*t going to get beat to hell and back over this report. I can't wait to hear how they try to spin it.

 

[dahunan]

Sad thing is... this will make front page news in many many countries.. AS IT SHOULD

These people - Cheney and the ChickenHawk NeoCons are REPRESENTING the Citizens of the United States of America.. THEY ARE our Ambassadors to the World

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Sad thing is... this will make front page news in many many countries.. AS IT SHOULD

These people - Cheney and the ChickenHawk NeoCons are REPRESENTING the Citizens of the United States of America.. THEY ARE our Ambassadors to the World

And since they condone these techniques - these are the heads that should roll. Not the lowly grunts who do as they are told.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wonder how the boots on the ground feel about this..

Is this what they want to fight for.. Is this what they want done to them

I guess this is how we win the hearts and minds of the World..

Do we have any idea how many INNOCENT people we have tortured in abu-ghraib?

Yes we do, around 90-95%

 

[JEDIYoda]

actually torture is a part of war...

Just ask the boots on the ground who have been tortured......

In fact a year or so ago ABC television had a documentary on how our troops were tortured....

using various crude methods to and including electrical torture via car batteries......

Whippings......

beatings etc.......

war is war get a grip!!

During war time there is no such thing as an innocent person during war time.....sorry!!!

In fact one of our WW2 Generals stated that......
It was certainly true in Vietnam albeit that was not a war!

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
actually torture is a part of war...

Just ask the boots on the ground who have been tortured......

In fact a year or so ago ABC television had a documentary on how our troops were tortured....

using various crude methods to and including electrical torture via car batteries......

Whippings......

beatings etc.......

war is war get a grip!!

During war time there is no such thing as an innocent person during war time.....sorry!!!

In fact one of our WW2 Generals stated that......
It was certainly true in Vietnam albeit that was not a war!

So, if there are no innocent people in times of war that would mean that suicide bombers are just in the actions..

By your definition that would mean that if Osama bin laden said he "declared war on the United States" that he is free to kill anyone he wants under the terms of war?

 

[her209]

You can't have war crimes if a war wasn't actually declared.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wonder how the boots on the ground feel about this..

Is this what they want to fight for.. Is this what they want done to them

I guess this is how we win the hearts and minds of the World..

Do we have any idea how many INNOCENT people we have tortured in abu-ghraib?

Yes we do, around 90-95%

Prove it.

 

[maddogchen]

I hate how news articles say there are 6 things but then they only list 4 of them.

 

[Lemon law]

While there can be a debate on if the geneva convention applies to a non-conventional group of combatents, the world public relations hit the United States has had over this is not to be underestimated.

Maybe not as bad as Nazi Germany where supposed civilized people decided its morally right to
kill even new born babies belonging to lesser races, but the world still asks how these people be so morally bankrupt.

We need to ask the same questions of our President, Vice President, and Attorney General.

But we now know these people have a finely honed sence of justice------when Scooter Libby got indicted they were there front and center reminding everyone he was innocent until proven guilty.

For everyone else its guilty and even more guilty when tortured into making a false confession.

What will future generations think of us good people who condoned torture by our silence? We all know our leaders are morally bankrupt, must we be also?

The framers of our constitution would be horrified at what we have become!

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
actually torture is a part of war...

Just ask the boots on the ground who have been tortured......

In fact a year or so ago ABC television had a documentary on how our troops were tortured....

using various crude methods to and including electrical torture via car batteries......

Whippings......

beatings etc.......

war is war get a grip!!

During war time there is no such thing as an innocent person during war time.....sorry!!!

In fact one of our WW2 Generals stated that......
It was certainly true in Vietnam albeit that was not a war!

Hey, sign up or SHUT THE FCK UP! I know what I'll do! I'll TORTURE you Abu Gharib style until you do sign up.

 

[mdchesne]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Clearly, these "techniques" are nothing more than hazing. Regardless, we have the RIGHT to do anything to protect American citizens. I say we start water boarding some 9 year olds and pregnant women, if that's what it takes.

might have gone a bit... actually a lot overboard on that comment. your comment implies we do anything to anyone to get a confession if it involves "protecting americans." you'd be a proud canidate for future CIA recruitment with that totalitarianism attitude

 

[XMan]

So when will the grand jury investigate this leak?

 

[Wheezer]

In "Belly Slap," interrogators deliver "a hard open-handed slap to the stomach" intended to cause pain but not internal injury.

In "Long Time Standing," prisoners are forced to stand handcuffed and shackled for more than 40 hours.

In "The Cold Cell" a prisoner is made to stand naked in a cell kept near 10 degrees C (50 degrees F) and is continually doused with cold water.

Water Boarding brings results within seconds, the sources said. A prisoner is tied onto a board with his feet higher than his head, and his face is wrapped in cellophane. When water is poured over him, he begins to gag and begs to confess, sources told ABC.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," John Sifton of Human Rights Watch told ABC.

Like a previous poster stated..this is no worse than hazing on just about any college campus in the US. True torture involves the disection or removal of body parts while the subject is alive....making them a little chilly is nothing more that what the homelsss have to endure in some states and well I don't see you cry babies claiming the american public torturing the homeless....at that rate you people are just as guilty and should be held accountable for what the homeless have to endure because YOU choose to not take them into your warm homes and make them comfortable.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: dahunan
I wonder how the boots on the ground feel about this..

Is this what they want to fight for.. Is this what they want done to them

I guess this is how we win the hearts and minds of the World..

Do we have any idea how many INNOCENT people we have tortured in abu-ghraib?

I think in AG it went beyond Gitmo, as you had a bunch of unsupervised kids coming in to rough up the inmates after the MI guys were done with them.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Although there have been many instances of our troops being tortured in the past, I would guess that there have been many instances where they have not been because of fear of retribution. Some surely had the idea that Americans would be outraged if some of their people were subjected to torture and would ensure that there would be hell-to-pay for it.

If we accept and even publicize that inhumane treatment of prisioners is a common, work-a-day practice for us, others will not fear nearly so much that that we will be outraged if it happens to our guys. This makes our troops more vulnerable. Not exactly "supporting the troops" IMHO.

It seems to me that this Administration keeps going out of its way to prove that the U.S. does not occupy the higher moral ground. If I ever meet GWB, I think I will ask him one question: "Would Jesus torture?".

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: mdchesne

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Clearly, these "techniques" are nothing more than hazing. Regardless, we have the RIGHT to do anything to protect American citizens. I say we start water boarding some 9 year olds and pregnant women, if that's what it takes.

might have gone a bit... actually a lot overboard on that comment. your comment implies we do anything to anyone to get a confession if it involves "protecting americans." you'd be a proud canidate for future CIA recruitment with that totalitarianism attitude

You need to switch your sarcasm meter on to really understand BBDocs post.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

In "Belly Slap," interrogators deliver "a hard open-handed slap to the stomach" intended to cause pain but not internal injury.

In "Long Time Standing," prisoners are forced to stand handcuffed and shackled for more than 40 hours.

In "The Cold Cell" a prisoner is made to stand naked in a cell kept near 10 degrees C (50 degrees F) and is continually doused with cold water.

Water Boarding brings results within seconds, the sources said. A prisoner is tied onto a board with his feet higher than his head, and his face is wrapped in cellophane. When water is poured over him, he begins to gag and begs to confess, sources told ABC.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," John Sifton of Human Rights Watch told ABC.

Like a previous poster stated..this is no worse than hazing on just about any college campus in the US. True torture involves the disection or removal of body parts while the subject is alive....making them a little chilly is nothing more that what the homelsss have to endure in some states and well I don't see you cry babies claiming the american public torturing the homeless....at that rate you people are just as guilty and should be held accountable for what the homeless have to endure because YOU choose to not take them into your warm homes and make them comfortable.

BBD was being sarcastic, he was trying to prove a point...but you seem to have done that for him. And while flaying a prisoner while he's still alive, or slowly roasting him over a fire, are certainly much worse than what is being done to our prisoners, that doesn't make what we are doing ok. There are degrees of torture, and I can't be the only person who's sees the danger in declaring some of it ok.

And yet again, a big reason torture is a bad idea has nothing to do with the moral and ethical questions. It isn't a good idea because it's simply not effective. Even relativly mild torture techniques leave the subject wanting to do whatever they have to in order to make it stop. It seems like common sense that this is a poor mindset from which to extract useful information, the subject will simply tell the interrogator what he wants to hear. It's no coincidence that in almost every case in history where the government used torture as an investigative technique, they ended up finding exactly what they were looking for. The Inquisition sure found a lot of unfaithful, didn't it?

I think the real problem is that the average person gets their ideas about torture from TV and movies. Shows like 24 are almost a parody of smart intelligence gathering and police work. Everyone seems to look at it is a captive who knows the code to disarm the ticking nuclear bomb, if only we can beat it out of him. I should think it would be obvious that the real world doesn't look like that.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Wheezer

In "Belly Slap," interrogators deliver "a hard open-handed slap to the stomach" intended to cause pain but not internal injury.

In "Long Time Standing," prisoners are forced to stand handcuffed and shackled for more than 40 hours.

In "The Cold Cell" a prisoner is made to stand naked in a cell kept near 10 degrees C (50 degrees F) and is continually doused with cold water.

Water Boarding brings results within seconds, the sources said. A prisoner is tied onto a board with his feet higher than his head, and his face is wrapped in cellophane. When water is poured over him, he begins to gag and begs to confess, sources told ABC.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," John Sifton of Human Rights Watch told ABC.

Like a previous poster stated..this is no worse than hazing on just about any college campus in the US. True torture involves the disection or removal of body parts while the subject is alive....making them a little chilly is nothing more that what the homelsss have to endure in some states and well I don't see you cry babies claiming the american public torturing the homeless....at that rate you people are just as guilty and should be held accountable for what the homeless have to endure because YOU choose to not take them into your warm homes and make them comfortable.

BBD was being sarcastic, he was trying to prove a point...but you seem to have done that for him. And while flaying a prisoner while he's still alive, or slowly roasting him over a fire, are certainly much worse than what is being done to our prisoners, that doesn't make what we are doing ok. There are degrees of torture, and I can't be the only person who's sees the danger in declaring some of it ok.

And yet again, a big reason torture is a bad idea has nothing to do with the moral and ethical questions. It isn't a good idea because it's simply not effective. Even relativly mild torture techniques leave the subject wanting to do whatever they have to in order to make it stop. It seems like common sense that this is a poor mindset from which to extract useful information, the subject will simply tell the interrogator what he wants to hear. It's no coincidence that in almost every case in history where the government used torture as an investigative technique, they ended up finding exactly what they were looking for. The Inquisition sure found a lot of unfaithful, didn't it?

I think the real problem is that the average person gets their ideas about torture from TV and movies. Shows like 24 are almost a parody of smart intelligence gathering and police work. Everyone seems to look at it is a captive who knows the code to disarm the ticking nuclear bomb, if only we can beat it out of him. I should think it would be obvious that the real world doesn't look like that.

Well according to what you state, and according to what some people are construing as torture, giving a child a "time out and segregating them in a corner could also be cosiderd torture. So what is your plan? "Don't make people uncomfortable and they will do what we want them to do because they will see we are the nice guys"


The fact is making people uncomfortable so they give you what you want is one thing, ripping thier toenails out or putting nails through thier hands is another. At the rate this country is going spanking will be considered torture.

This is where this is heading:

Lets say we do the opposite. Instead of making them uncomfortable lets say we give them all the candy and sweet stuff they want, any candy they can consume, they can have as long as they give us the info we want. So then we start appeasing them with goodies, but what happens? Well then they get cavites and develope diabetes and so that form of information extraction is no good either. Why? well because we are trying to make them ill in order to get information. Therefore eventually ANY type of information gathering will be null and void, I mean after all how can you trust a guy who is telling you what you want just for another 6 pack of Coke and a bag of ho-ho's...it is unconstitutiional.


So how exactly do you think we should get what we want?

You can obviously point out what is wrong, why don't you come up with some ideas so that we get the info we need and the inmates are not displeased with thier surroundings?

You cant' make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. That is a fact.
Do you need to use an electric beater to do it...no, that would be overkill.
If you do it by hand with a fork, you will achieve the same result only in a much gentler manor, and it will probably taste better instead of being whipped into oblivion.

same way with obtaining information. Don't pull out the fingernails/toenails but give the perception you will...if the info is wrong then pull one out until it is right. You have 20 chances.