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Internet Latency (aka lag), why?

S

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Well, Im hoping someone could clarify exactly why it is that, even though internet connections are constantly improving, the "base" distance latency is always the same

I started playing online about 10 years ago, probably with Diablo 2, and for as long as I can remember, I have always had around 150 ms latency to the US (European), give or take depending on the exact location of the server

And it baffles me... With so many technological improvements since then, why is it still exactly the same? What is the actual physical limitation going on here? Are we always going to have this "wall"?

This is particularly annoying with online games, since it forces them to be region based... When will it be possible to have one global server that is equally fast throughout the world?
 
Remember as games get more advanced you generally need to send out and receive more data.

Also it doesn't help that most of the internet is used for porn so if people would stop downloading porn all that precious tube space would be used for other stuff.
 
Well you've got the speed of light, for one, so you'll always have some delay. The rest comes from delay though equipment and transmission medium. The number of hops you take has a big impact on it. If you go through air at any point it's even worse.
 
bignateyk said:
Well you've got the speed of light, for one, so you'll always have some delay. The rest comes from delay though equipment and transmission medium. The number of hops you take has a big impact on it. If you go through air at any point it's even worse.
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Equipment has come along way in 10 years, but not at the exponential rate of users, and file sizes.
 
Well there is a "hardcoded" roundtrip limit of ~60ms just due to that pesky speed of light, plus you have a few hops on the web between. 150ms isn't surprising.
 
I reckon to guess that the more global internet connections, the more hubs / nodes we need standing between us and our destination.
 
1. Speed of light can circle around earth 7.75 times in one second.

2. Data sends at speed of light. And as we know, nothing can be faster than speed of light in this world.

2. That's 129 ms per one round trip, 65 ms half away across the earth.

3. So even at pure speed of light, you'll have a minimum of 65 ms ping if you're in US and play in Asia server.

4. Then add any additional time for any technological/technical delays.

Even if you pull out a magical global server, giving unrestricted access to anyone without any penalty, you will have a delay of 65ms from China to US. Unless you can beat speed of light... then you should be busy receiving Nobel prizes and transforming our world, not enjoy stupid video games.
 
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Zeze said:
Unless you can beat speed of light... then you should be busy receiving Nobel prizes and transforming our world, not enjoy stupid video games.
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Screw that.

Having a lower ping to frag people is more important then some crappy prize. 😉
 
Zeze said:
1. Speed of light can circle around earth 7.75 times in one second.

2. Data sends at speed of light. And as we know, nothing can be faster than speed of light in this world.

2. That's 129 ms per one round trip, 65 ms half away across the earth.

3. So even at pure speed of light, you'll have a minimum of 65 ms ping if you're in US and play in Asia server.

4. Then add any additional time for any technological/technical delays.

Even if you pull out a magical global server, giving unrestricted access to anyone without any penalty, you will have a delay of 65ms from China to US. Unless you can beat speed of light... then you should be busy receiving Nobel prizes and transforming our world, not enjoy stupid video games.
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You are assuming of course that your data packets are being transmitted at the speed of light, which I don't think they are 😉
 
iamwiz82 said:
Well there is a "hardcoded" roundtrip limit of ~60ms just due to that pesky speed of light, plus you have a few hops on the web between. 150ms isn't surprising.
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It is sad that it took 4 reponses for the first correct answer to appear. Even sadder, those first 3 responses were clueless.
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
It is sad that it took 4 reponses for the first correct answer to appear. Even sadder, those first 3 responses were clueless.
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How was my response clueless? I said the exact same thing...

Satellite comms have horrible latency and cell comms aren't great either. Though LTE is pretty good in that department.
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
It is sad that it took 4 reponses for the first correct answer to appear. Even sadder, those first 3 responses were clueless.
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actually, the second response is correct. try again. it's been a long break and we need the hate machine running at full capacity!
 
Here's the real question, under what xxMS ping is any delay even noticeable? I remember back when I played Counterstrike, anything in the 100's seemed instantaneous... However you sometimes felt like someone with a higher ping had the jump on you in a shootout
 
mizzou said:
Here's the real question, under what xxMS ping is any delay even noticeable? I remember back when I played Counterstrike, anything in the 100's seemed instantaneous... However you sometimes felt like someone with a higher ping had the jump on you in a shootout
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The number you are seeing is just an average. If you were getting a constant 100ms vs a constant 50ms you likely wouldn't notice a difference. More than likely though your 100ms is spiking higher than that more frequently than his 50ms is, which could cause issues.
 
Speed of light, routers storing and forwarding the packet along with serialization delay at each hop.

And data isn't sent at the speed of light, more like 70-75%.
 
ShadowOfMyself said:
Well, Im hoping someone could clarify exactly why it is that, even though internet connections are constantly improving, the "base" distance latency is always the same

...

And it baffles me... With so many technological improvements since then, why is it still exactly the same?
Click to expand...

And what technological improvements would those be?

There haven't been any significant improvements in propagation delay as of late. Lower latency as a result of increased bandwidth is neutralized by increased bandwidth utilization.

ShadowOfMyself said:
What is the actual physical limitation going on here?
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The speed at which a signal can propagate through a particular medium (in your case, fiber and copper)

+

The speed at which the switching and routing equipment can process that signal

+

The available bandwidth of the links between you and the host you're communicating with

ShadowOfMyself said:
Are we always going to have this "wall"?
Click to expand...

Barring any revolutionary advances in physics and/or communication technology, yes.
 
mizzou said:
Here's the real question, under what xxMS ping is any delay even noticeable?
Click to expand...

At 60 frames per second, you have a time budget of about 17ms per frame. Any latency below that will not be visually apparent, unless your display can paint images faster than that.

In practice, it depends on the game. Fast-paced games like Street Fighter are much less tolerant of latency than slower-paced games like Words With Friends. Also, developers can usually compensate for latency (up to a point) if jitter is low.
 
What do you mean by "speed of light"? Do you mean, "the speed of light in a vacuum"? Because, while that may apply to outer space, it does not apply on Earth, though the speed of light in air is reasonably close. If you're sending data through fiber-optics, the "speed of light" in fiber optics is significantly slower than it is in air. By significantly slower, I mean that instead of 3.0 x 10^8 m/s, it's more like 2.0*10^8 m/s (Instead of 186,000 miles per second, it's closer to 130,000 miles per second)
 
Yes, but the propagation delay is constant, relative to speed of light. So until you can change the speed of light you will always have this delay.

Ever had an international phone call? You can actually hear the delay and those are traveling over the same links as your internet.
 
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