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Internationalization

L

LordMagnusKain

Banned
This music video made me cry

Any one else feel bad about destroying cultures across the world with our American decadence? Is this the new world order that George Bush sr. was speaking of? And is it something we truly want to bring to the rest of the world? Or is it simply that we are superior to them all, and thus they deserve to have their culture whitewashed by American icons?
 
It's not the American's fault that all of these other people eat up American culture. Didn't the US basically get much of the world to start celebrating Halloween? The US brings in other ideas or cultures, patches them together, and then exports it out in such a form that the masses will lick it up.

American culture is a combination of many different cultures. I guess that's why it's so dominating.
 
I don't know but it was a cool video.

They see this countries accomplishments and want to be like us. It doesn't seem to matter much if they hate us or like us. They want what we have. I don't think we could stop that if we wanted to. I'm also not convinced we are destroying their cultures. Look at Japan. They still have their culture and traditions.

Although I'm sure you have seen movies where someone was captured by indians and rasied or converted to the tribal ways and then after being freed by white men again chose to go back to the indian way of life. There are true documented stories about that really happening. Kind of make you wonder, doesn't it.
 
What a dumb video---nothing wrong with Wasabi tribesmen eating pizza or some Buddhist monks enjoying a coke!


By the way, isn't it a bit melodramatic to cry over a stupid video like that one that had absolutely no subtley and was so far removed from the ambiguity of cultural interchange. Cry
 
That video was brilliant.

Just think for a minute of the backlash within our societies regarding commercialization, modernaization, corporatization, etc.

Do we really like having all the stupid, disgusting, low-brow, crap at our disposal? Does it make us happier? No.

Do we stop using it? No. I ordered pizza yesterdy. I'm going out tonight, so I may scarf down some McD's. I've spent the last 8 years working in fine dining, so I understand very well exactly how crappy this food is. I've also picked up a thing or two about cooking over the years. Does it stop me from taking the easy way out? No.

Imagine, then, if this velvet-lined cage was a product of a foreign society. I hate it, but I can't easily just blame it on outsiders. Imagine if you could. Then imagine your language dying, your village being "relocated" to make room for an american corporation's mine. Pretty easy to get a chip on your shoulder. Even if you or your government has ultimate responsability, I can see why you could feel bitterness.
 
This is a good topic.
The United States has many problems and challenges that are structural. We have millions of people living in relative poverty. Millions of people are without healthcare and a growing class are becoming the working poor. Education, healthcare, traffic, pollution, and many more of these types of issues are challenges faced by local, state and the federal gov't. There is a great divide between the rich and poor and the divide is growing. We have a shrinking middle class as we are heading towards the two extremes. And, still, we have as a whole, one of the highest standards of living in the world. People in many other countries want to visit the US, they want the MickeyDs, Disneyland, movie, tv shows, fashion, etc. Many people strive to achieve our standard of living through the consumption of "our culture."

Think about culture in terms of global economics.

The US has lost the battle in manufacturing supremacy to cheap labor countries. We cannot compete against 10 dollars a day, no benefits, and few labor and environmental laws. These manufacturing jobs will most likely not come back. Culture is our currency. Culture is what we are exporting. Movies, books, music, tv shows, starbucks, blue jeans, fashion, Mickey Mouse. Imagine what our exploding trade deficits (our balance of trade) would be if we did not export our ideas - our materialism and our idealism.

Here is a radical concept - can hegemony lead to harmony? People that believe they are more alike than they are different are less likely to want to harm each other. Can we win the battle of ideas? Can we, with our culture, influence, sway and "win over" those that are ambivalent or even hate the United States? We cannot, of course, simply impose our culture or beliefs on others .... but I believe the battle of ideas is the greatest challenge we face globally.
American encroachment and cultural influence into other countries is at once both sought after and reviled. Our disposable society is attacked for our materialism. No doubt that is what the OP is lamenting. But I would argue that when Coca Cola has a near 100% name recognition in almost every part of the world, we have a foothold to do something, to spread our ideas and ideals.

This is not a black and white issue because there are so many facets to this influence. I don't pretend to have the answers. But, I do believe, the issue will continue to grow in importance as technology makes the world more connected and more interdependent.
 
isn't it a bit melodramatic to cry over a stupid video like that one that had absolutely no subtley and was so far removed from the ambiguity of cultural interchange
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maybe, but it was thinking about it in a context I hadn?t, not the video itself that moved me.

good posts all, i suppose that western 'society' wouldn?t be the dominant force on earth if it wasn?t doing something that gave the demos what they demanded.

which in the end is the greatest aspect of both capitalism and personal freedom.
 
Originally posted by: chowderhead
The US has lost the battle in manufacturing supremacy to cheap labor countries. We cannot compete against 10 dollars a day, no benefits, and few labor and environmental laws. These manufacturing jobs will most likely not come back. Culture is our currency. Culture is what we are exporting. Movies, books, music, tv shows, starbucks, blue jeans, fashion, Mickey Mouse. Imagine what our exploding trade deficits (our balance of trade) would be if we did not export our ideas - our materialism and our idealism.

Here is a radical concept - can hegemony lead to harmony? People that believe they are more alike than they are different are less likely to want to harm each other. Can we win the battle of ideas? Can we, with our culture, influence, sway and "win over" those that are ambivalent or even hate the United States? We cannot, of course, simply impose our culture or beliefs on others .... but I believe the battle of ideas is the greatest challenge we face globally.
American encroachment and cultural influence into other countries is at once both sought after and reviled. Our disposable society is attacked for our materialism. No doubt that is what the OP is lamenting. But I would argue that when Coca Cola has a near 100% name recognition in almost every part of the world, we have a foothold to do something, to spread our ideas and ideals.
Click to expand...

This is indeed an interesting topic, and I think ultimately the prime topic at the center of many of the problems facing us. As we've expanded our economy, we've done it outwards and often at the expense of the sovereignty of other countries' economies and cultures. In expanding our economy, all of our ideas, including those social and political, go along. A lot of people say that other countries are taking in our culture because they aspire to be like us. In my travels, I've found that this is almost unequivocally false. The people of other nations do tend to enjoy the flashiness not only of our entertainment but also to a degree of our business. But their social and political systems are their own, and they rarely will accept attempts at outsiders to suggest a change there, especially in historic, well-developed societies in Europe and Asia.

I tend to hear a lot of talk about how the terrorists hate us because we have freedom and democracy. Frankly, I've disagreed with this simplistic belief for some time now. The vast majority of terrorists, as with most non-Americans, couldn't care less what we do in our country as long as it doesn't affect them. However, as our exploits have taken our influences outside our borders, there has been increasing resistance to the fact that first, we are changing other cultures adversely (however inadvertent it may be) and we are taking advantage of poorer societies to raise our standard of living. These people see Coca-Cola, McDonald's, Starbucks, etc as symbols of our influence, both positive and negative. The extent to which we respect the cultures of other societies is, in my opinion, going to be the deciding factor in our attempt to win the "war on terror". More important than the might of our military or intelligence is going to be our perception as a society abroad.
 
YOu know, I'm fairly progressive but I dont go for this bash America crap solely because some middle class american feels guilty because other cultures like pizza, McDonalds or whatever. I have a problem with using slave labor to make NIke sneakers but I have absolutely no problem with African runners wearing them. THis sounds like Margaret Meadism---this kind of selective understanding of other cultures based on one's own needs. Its okay to hate BUsh but eat McDonalds!
 
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
good posts all, i suppose that western 'society' wouldn?t be the dominant force on earth if it wasn?t doing something that gave the demos what they demanded.
Click to expand...

Well, it depends on your point of view. I don't necessarily agree fully with this but here are the views of Samuel P Huntington: "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do."

There are plenty of arguments either way on whether Western society became dominant through either benevolence or malevolence. I've always found the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond to go over many of these topics in depth quite well. It's a long and sometimes dry read, but a fascinating one.
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Originally posted by: rextilleon I have a problem with using slave labor to make NIke sneakers but I have absolutely no problem with African runners wearing them.
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See, now that's a good point. Ideally it would be great if we could provide our innovation (Nike shoes) without causing suffering to others (sweatshop labor). It all comes down to whether other peoples will focus more on our positives or our negatives. Honestly, though, if one good thing happens to you and one bad thing, all else being equal, what are you going to think about more?
 
All I care about they stop warezing our artists stuff. All over asia, you can buy CD's for $1.00 and Microsoft XP for $2.50...And I was probably getting griffted being a mark as a tourist.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
All I care about they stop warezing our artists stuff. All over asia, you can buy CD's for $1.00 and Microsoft XP for $2.50...And I was probably getting griffted being a mark as a tourist.
Click to expand...

I love your ironic approach, you actually made me laugh. TY
 
Originally posted by: rextilleon
What a dumb video---nothing wrong with Wasabi tribesmen eating pizza or some Buddhist monks enjoying a coke!


By the way, isn't it a bit melodramatic to cry over a stupid video like that one that had absolutely no subtley and was so far removed from the ambiguity of cultural interchange. Cry
Click to expand...

Nothing like Britney Spears being her obnoxious self? Not good for enough for you mein herr? Watch the video for Ich will with rammstein.
 
Originally posted by: rextilleon
YOu know, I'm fairly progressive but I dont go for this bash America crap solely because some middle class american feels guilty because other cultures like pizza, McDonalds or whatever. I have a problem with using slave labor to make NIke sneakers but I have absolutely no problem with African runners wearing them. THis sounds like Margaret Meadism---this kind of selective understanding of other cultures based on one's own needs. Its okay to hate BUsh but eat McDonalds!
Click to expand...

So give me something better mein herr, you obviously have seen it, point me to it.
 
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Zebo
All I care about they stop warezing our artists stuff. All over asia, you can buy CD's for $1.00 and Microsoft XP for $2.50...And I was probably getting griffted being a mark as a tourist.
Click to expand...

I love your ironic approach, you actually made me laugh. TY
Click to expand...

LOL...came out wrong..I did ask they told, they looked retail for goodness sakes, until you checked them out up close, then I knew it was bogus. Every other street corner had these "media" stands...law, if there is one, is'nt enforced.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Zebo
All I care about they stop warezing our artists stuff. All over asia, you can buy CD's for $1.00 and Microsoft XP for $2.50...And I was probably getting griffted being a mark as a tourist.
Click to expand...

I love your ironic approach, you actually made me laugh. TY
Click to expand...

LOL...came out wrong..I did ask they told, they looked retail for goodness sakes, until you checked them out up close, then I knew it was bogus. Every other street corner had these "media" stands...law, if there is one, is'nt enforced.
Click to expand...

Whoa, you were serious, well, sorry but there is a brand new world out there, catch up before you become what is RIAA's future, non-existant.

Or is that what you were saying? i am probably older than you so it this is some teenybopper code, i don't get it.
 
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Zebo
All I care about they stop warezing our artists stuff. All over asia, you can buy CD's for $1.00 and Microsoft XP for $2.50...And I was probably getting griffted being a mark as a tourist.
Click to expand...

I love your ironic approach, you actually made me laugh. TY
Click to expand...

LOL...came out wrong..I did ask they told, they looked retail for goodness sakes, until you checked them out up close, then I knew it was bogus. Every other street corner had these "media" stands...law, if there is one, is'nt enforced.
Click to expand...

Whoa, you were serious, well, sorry but there is a brand new world out there, catch up before you become what is RIAA's future, non-existant.

Or is that what you were saying? i am probably older than you so it this is some teenybopper code, i don't get it.
Click to expand...

No I'm not a tennybopper, but play one in real life.🙂

Brand new world? Like a bunch of spoiled brats running around seeing what they can get away with?

What entitels you to take someone elses intellectual property? You know it's illegal.
At least in most western countries. You why it's illegal? To protect creation of the arts as well as profits. I do think IP rights are too long, and granted indefinity if you have the $ to fight for it (micky mouse for example) but I still comply with the law since a couple hundred bucks is'nt worth breaking it for. And it's dishonest to reap rewards by not paying for it. IMO
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Klixxer
Originally posted by: Zebo
All I care about they stop warezing our artists stuff. All over asia, you can buy CD's for $1.00 and Microsoft XP for $2.50...And I was probably getting griffted being a mark as a tourist.
Click to expand...

I love your ironic approach, you actually made me laugh. TY
Click to expand...

LOL...came out wrong..I did ask they told, they looked retail for goodness sakes, until you checked them out up close, then I knew it was bogus. Every other street corner had these "media" stands...law, if there is one, is'nt enforced.
Click to expand...

Whoa, you were serious, well, sorry but there is a brand new world out there, catch up before you become what is RIAA's future, non-existant.

Or is that what you were saying? i am probably older than you so it this is some teenybopper code, i don't get it.
Click to expand...

No I'm not a tennybopper, but play one in real life.🙂

Brand new world? Like a bunch of spoiled brats running around seeing what they can get away with?

What entitels you to take someone elses intellectual property? You know it's illegal.
At least in most western countries. You why it's illegal? To protect creation of the arts as well as profits. I do think IP rights are too long, and granted indefinity if you have the $ to fight for it (micky mouse for example) but I still comply with the law since a couple hundred bucks is'nt worth breaking it for. And it's dishonest to reap rewards by not paying for it. IMO
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as intellectual property and you can't take a copyrighted item away from someone by buying a copy. Copyright's a monopoly, not property. However, I agree that such monopolies are worth protecting if and only if they promote the advancement of the sciences and useful arts as the US Constitution gives Congress the power to do. If such monopolies don't provide those functions, and there's a strong argument today that copyright and patent monopolies are preventing the progress of the useful arts and sciences, then Congress has no power to create or sustain them under the Constitution.

As for Asian nations ignoring US copyrights, the US build its fledgling publishing industry on ignoring British copyrights and publishing British books without permission. All new economies, either based on geography or based on a new technology (like movies--Hollywood was notorious for ignoring copyrights when it was founded), ignores copyrights as they build themselves up and then supports them later once the economy is established and mature, so I don't think there's much to worry about in the long term.

However, I do wish people would obey copyrights, as free copying of MS software has played a large part in establishing and sustaining Microsoft's software monopoly. We'd see a lot more people using and creating their own software alternatives if there was no copyright infringement.
 
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