- Nov 18, 2007
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International Criminal Court issues warrant
- Thread starter JTsyo
- Start date
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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Sadly BoomerD, GWB&Cheney now better fit the the lock the barn after the horses got out category. But I will settle for better late than than never.
And in the case of Bashir, the sad side effect of this indictment is that many international aid groups are now being booted out of the Country by the Bashir government. Making the situation far worse, especially if the international community fails to move against Bashir.
Would it not be easier to arrest OmarTheZealot instead? ( Sorry Omar, could not resist the humorous reply. )
And in the case of Bashir, the sad side effect of this indictment is that many international aid groups are now being booted out of the Country by the Bashir government. Making the situation far worse, especially if the international community fails to move against Bashir.
Would it not be easier to arrest OmarTheZealot instead? ( Sorry Omar, could not resist the humorous reply. )
The ICC must also go after Sudan's European allies. You know, the ones that claimed that there is no genocide in Darfur.
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
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I'd say the answers to those are "you gotta be kidding me" and "no" respectively. The international community didn't even have the stomach to step in with peacekeepers to stop the genocide which led to this warrant. Rather everyone thought they were doing something brave by just holding up a sign saying "Save Darfur" while doing nothing about it other than a half-hearted effort to outsource the problem to the African Union.
Milosevic was the first sitting head of state to be charged with war crimes, but the ICC hadn't been created yet so al-Bashir is only first by a technicality.
Situation was different since they were already actively fighting. I doubt anyone's going into Sudan.
Playing Devil's Advocate. Shouldn't the International Criminal Court have known in advance that if they were to issue a warrant then the Bashir government would boot out the international aid groups? If so, could another international criminal court charge this International Criminal Court with the crime of directly causing the deaths of many innocents through their actions?
Nemesis 1
Lifer
- Dec 30, 2006
- 11,366
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Yep . To bad Their wasn't This concern over the genecide of the American indians. TO bad the world powers didn't come the the Indians aid.
If your going to pretend to be enlightened. Present something other than what common man has known in his heart from the beginning. Why do you believe 1 world body should have this kind of power. I understand the light it sheds on a problem . However that light is aways off. There is only 1 path to it, but many paths. NO way . Will I put faith in people who won the game of King of the MOUNTAIN. NO . I would have to be a freaken retard to trust the cream. NOT IN THIS LIFE!
The EU has been dragging their feet, claiming that it's not a genocide for years now.
This situation was allowed to happen because of British colonialism in Sudan. Trolls will conveniently forget, but history can never be erased.
Me.
First of all, this is caused by European politics & history, therefore American lives should not be endangered to clean up another European-caused genocide.
Second, a bizarrely high percentage of international figures imprisoned in the Hague have mysteriously died, most likely to cover up links to various governments.
Third, it would be best to focus US Special Forces on other heads of governments.
I can't claim to be any expert, but the Sudanese who live there tell me that the conflicts in Darfur date for a long time - some for hundreds of years.
Also, only the US calls it a genocide. Even the UN will not take that position.
I object to it.
He isn't loved in the country at all. Very few like him and think Sudan would be better without him (including me...and I was there for a month). The army is a joke as well - most of the soldiers are there to be paid and the many I had to deal with were just on power trips and didn't give a damn about their jobs. You can find a LOT of them sleeping, or just sitting down on top of their gun turrets bored as hell and trying to stay out of the sun for so damned long. I only met one person who loved him - but she somehow believed that he was oblivious to all the problems and corruption because 'everyone undernearth is lying to him' and it is there fault...even in that, she hated the entire government save for him. Many people that I spoke to also agree that what is going on in Darfur is wrong and needs to be stopped. However they currently have a government that is not very responsive to the people's needs. Of course, they also admit that the past few years HAVE gotten better and life is easier, it is just going at a slow pace. I drove around in the back of a beat up Toyota passing the parking area of hundreds of 7 series BMWs - all belonging to the government officials and guarded by the military. If you go by the airport you'll see a bunch of propaganda posters in English Arabic and French 'praising' the leader, but everyone knows its shit. They are (with the help of the Chinese) building a huge bridge to Tooti Island (they plan to turn it into a luxery resort for government officials and diplomats) in Khartoum, but 99% of the roads in Um Durman (they have a saying - Khartoum may be the political capital, but Um Durman is the true capital of the nation) - where the vast majority live - are dirt with massive pot holes in them.
However, once you start talking about interfering in their country...all bets are off. They aren't stupid enough to think that 'help' is given for altruistic reasons. They may hate their leader, but they hate others trying to intrude into their affairs even more. What you advocate will rally the people around a leader they do not like.
I'l say that I agree with the UN workers who I spoke to. These guys worked in the area for several years so far (although not anymore considering alBashir just expelled all of them from Darfur). I'll honestly take their first hand experience as what is most likely true.
Again, this doesn't mean I support any of it, or belittle any of it. The locations affected by death and destruction is 100% absolutely wrong.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7926813.stm
Of course he has the balls to 'celebrate' (jackass in blue in him) but there is an interesting point --> he turns it completely into an issue of colonialism. On this basis, no one will support any type of invasion or entering of Sudan without government approval, even if they don't like the government (which is what I said earlier). At the ery minimum, everyone (or at least a super majority to prevent some kind of insurgency) needs to be convinced that it isn't about that. (Although, honestly, after the Iraq debacle, its hard for me to buy into any bullshit about 'saving others')
What I'm suprised the article did not mention is that for any real civilian (ie: is not a government minister being paid by him) cheering him on...they were almost guaranteed to be paid money to do so. I learned that there are often several protests in front of the US Embassy, but many of these were people simply paid by the government to go yell, scream, burn effigies, etc. etc. Unemployment is super high there so there are plenty of volunteers willing to demonstrate anything for cash lol.
But going back to reality...exactly what would be done? If you grab Bashir, the country will probably enter a mini war as elites and military officers go for a power grab. Or would you lop off the head and keep the power structure? Its a pretty corrupt power structure you know...and then you have the tense issues with the South - at least at this moment they will soon have their referendum on whether or not they want to separate from the rest of Sudan. The macho idea of going in guns blazing to take him out, or going in stealthily and nabbing him, sounds great but it really lacks when it comes to any serious discussion or consideration of "...what next?"
Yeah but I fear its symbolic...realistically you just can't grab him out and pretend everything will become roses.
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