Intermediate strength training program suggestions?

[dealmaster00]

Hey guys...I've been doing Stronglifts for about 4 months and soon it will be time to switch to an intermediate program. My goals are to get stronger and secondly to gain muscle mass. Stats: 5'5" M, 140 lbs (up from 120 in April ). Last workout I did over 1.5x bodyweight squat (225x5x5) and I think this is an indicator that I should be switching workouts soon (My bench press/overhead press are almost at intermediate level - I haven't tested 1RMs for them but they should be pretty close.). I was looking at the Stronglifts Advanced workouts but didn't like them too much, they seemed to be more focused on specific lifts and I'd rather progress through all my lifts. So far the best looking workout I found was this: Bill Starr 5x5. I'd love to hear other people's workout suggestions and thoughts!

 

[SociallyChallenged]

It's usually a fine idea to stay on the same program unless your gains have stopped. I can understand your potential boredom though so you can throw new practices into play with GPP, some olympics lifts, power cleans, etc. Honestly though, unless you aren't getting gains anymore, just stay on this program. Other programs are usually geared toward slower gains for more advanced lifters.

 

[KoolDrew]

You switch to an intermediate program when you can no longer make progress on a beginner program, not when your strength reaches some random number.

 

[presidentender]

Starting strength says to stop when you aren't making linear progress anymore. If that's your program, you should stick with it, and follow it. "Intermediate" is a bunch of crap. More like "plateau" versus "no plateau."

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
You switch to an intermediate program when you can no longer make progress on a beginner program, not when your strength reaches some random number.

Agreed. I would recommend checking out Rippetoe's book Practical Programming. It is a follow-up to Starting Strength and explains the distinction between a novice, intermediate, advanced, and elite lifter. It has nothing to do with how much weight you are lifting; it relates to whether or not you can progress using the routines suggested for each level.

Another way of viewing it is to think in terms of work loads and recovery ability. A novice requires fairly easy workloads relative to their true genetic potential to disrupt their body's homeostasis enough to cause a growth response. Because these workouts are rather light relative to the novice's genetic potential, they can recover from them quite quickly. This is why linear progression is used on a daily basis in the novice routine.

Eventually, the novice will reach a point where they are no longer able to progress from one workout to the next. In a sense, the amount of weight they must now use to disrupt their body's homeostasis and produce a response exceeds their ability to recover from it when they are using this load 3 times per week. They must therefore insert less stressful workouts in between the high intensity ones in order to give their bodies adequate time to recover.

Advanced and elite lifters require even longer periods of lighter work to recover from high intensity work because they are lifting weights that are so close to their genetic potential.

This is a very brief summary of the ideas presented in the book. I found it to be a very good read and I would recommend it to anyone.

 

[brikis98]

As others have mentioned, you move onto intermediate programs ONLY when you cannot make progress with the beginner program. This typically means that most of your lifts are stalling (especially the squat), you've tried several (hard and soft) resets, and still just cannot make progress any more.

As for Bill Starr 5x5, it's a pretty damn solid program and I made some nice gains on it. My favorite part of it is the ramping sets (rather than sets across) and the layout of reps/sets (5x5 on day 1, 4x5 on day 2, 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 on day 3). However, I would recommend replacing rows with power cleans and adding pull-ups as an assistance exercise.

 

[dealmaster00]

Thanks for the replies guys. SociallyChallenged - I am not bored at all, but was interested in some suggestions for intermediate programs because I know I won't be able to make daily gains for much longer (read onward for explanation). Just trying to be prepared. As far as my progress has been going: on bench and OHP I have been stalling (may take a few weeks to a month to make gains on those). Squat and deadlift, not so much - at the very least I can add 5 pounds every week, usually more. So I guess my question is - should I stick with Stronglifts since I can still add weight to squat/deadlift, or switch to another program so I don't have to wait a month to progress on bench/OHP? And regardless - what are some decent intermediate programs out there?

brikis98 - glad to hear that you like Bill Starr 5x5. I am in the process of learning power cleans and was going to replace rows with them in my next workout.

Special K - thanks but I have the book.

 

[presidentender]

Change up what you're doing with the exercises you've stalled on. If squats and deads are still making progress, you might as well not fix what isn't broken.

 

[KoolDrew]

on bench and OHP I have been stalling (may take a few weeks to a month to make gains on those).

Drop the weight 10% and work your way back up.

However, if after resetting you don't think you can make progress from workout to workout and can only do so weekly, then switching to Bill Starrs would be a good idea and you should be able to make very good progress on it.

 

[KoolDrew]

double post

 

[dealmaster00]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

on bench and OHP I have been stalling (may take a few weeks to a month to make gains on those).

Drop the weight 10% and work your way back up.

However, if after resetting you don't think you can make progress from workout to workout and can only do so weekly, then switching to Bill Starrs would be a good idea and you should be able to make very good progress on it.

Sorry, should have mentioned it, but I was including the time it took to complete 1-2 soft deloads in there. Never have had to do a hard deload though. I am starting to get pretty close to making at least weekly progress on all lifts - that's why I was thinking of switching to an intermediate program soon. One other thing is that I just started doing power clean...just with the bar weight to begin with. Should I wait until I'm more proficient at that exercise before moving to an intermediate program (assuming it has the power clean in there)?

 

[KoolDrew]

I'd suggest getting comfortable with power cleans first if you plan on adding them to the Bill Starr routine. Then once you have your 5RM for your lifts, you can set up the Bill Starr routine.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

on bench and OHP I have been stalling (may take a few weeks to a month to make gains on those).

Drop the weight 10% and work your way back up.

However, if after resetting you don't think you can make progress from workout to workout and can only do so weekly, then switching to Bill Starrs would be a good idea and you should be able to make very good progress on it.

What routine does one use when they are only making progress every few/several weeks? I was using a "weekly programming" routine for a few years but that hasn't really gotten me any meaningful progress in the past couple years or so. I have just been spinning my wheels.

I can "artificially" boost my lifts by gaining weight, but the weight ends up being mostly fat, even on a very slow bulk of clean calories, so adding more weight really isn't a viable option anymore. I say "artifically" boost because when I cut, my lifts go right back down to what they were the last time I was at that particular weight.

I like Practical Programming but it doesn't actually lay out any routines, it's just a collection of principles. I visited Rippetoe's forum but it's pretty much the same way - Rippetoe will answer questions, but he won't actually post a routine.

 

[KoolDrew]

What routine does one use when they are only making progress every few/several weeks?

http://www.geocities.com/elite...ram/Periodized_5x5.htm

That should give you a general idea.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

What routine does one use when they are only making progress every few/several weeks?

http://www.geocities.com/elite...ram/Periodized_5x5.htm

That should give you a general idea.

Do you think you could effectively cut on a program like that? I mean the periodization routines build up to a max weight and then back off again. Obviously if I am cutting, it's going to be hard to make strength gains and set PRs.

Part of me believes that if this is the best routine for me to use to gain strength/size when I am eating enough, then it should also be the best routine to use to keep strength/size when I am cutting. I just might have to adjust my expectations down a bit if I am deep into a cut.

What do you think?

EDIT: n/m, I just read the entire program and it says it's fine for cutting. It just says you might have to adjust the weights downward a bit since it's hard to maintain max strength during a cut.