Interesting tidbit about 9/11...

[MotF Bane]

This is perfect. Brilliance!!!

 

[Ns1]

*palmface*

fuck this thread, this shit is too infuriating. others, if you want to keep arguing, I commend you, cuz I'm gonna go fucking apeshit

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: CasioTech
First, THAT'S NOT the same documentary.

second, you think I'm going to read a website, with a guy who keeps saying, 'thats ridiculous!' and then doesn't elaborate or says something which isn't even true.

The two spot lights, conveniently there is no explanation of the big keypoints.

Heiligenschein. Read it. Make an effort to try to understand it.

 

[CasioTech]

what the fuck does that have to do with the two BIG WHITE spotlights found in the picture cropped by nasa? LOL your link doesn't have anything to do with anything.

don't even bother replying or arguing if you don't watch the videos first. It's only 1/2 hour. You can wank later.



lulz
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...px-As11-40-5874-75.gif

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: CasioTech
what the fuck does that have to do with the two BIG WHITE spotlights found in the picture cropped by nasa? LOL your link doesn't have anything to do with anything.

don't even bother replying or arguing if you don't watch the videos first. It's only 1/2 hour. You can wank later.



lulz
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...px-As11-40-5874-75.gif

I blew your butt buddy's last argument about Silverstein being behind 9/11 out of the water. Do you really want to start another losing argument?

 

[irishScott]

Alright CT, I actually watched your videos. Because there's so much shit to sort through, especially in the first one, I'll be doing this one post at a time.

Video 1:
1. Classic mafia family rules. WTF?
Here's why the locations were chosen:

Cape Canaveral:
http://www.spaceline.org/capehistory/2a.html

In September, 1947 the Committee on the Long Range Proving Ground announced its decision to recommend the establishment of a missile proving ground at the California site, with Cape Canaveral offered as the second choice. The Washington site had been quickly rejected due to its isolation and poor weather.

Although it would have been a suitable site very close to existing missile manufacturers, the California site had to be rejected when Mexican President Aleman refused to agree to allow missiles to fly over the Baja region. This was largely a result of bad timing, since a wayward V-2 rocket launched from White Sands, New Mexico had recently crashed near Juarez, Mexico.

The British, however, were quick to express their willingness to allow missiles to fly over the Bahamas. They also were willing to lease island land to the U.S. military for the establishment of tracking stations. That, coupled with inherent strengths of Cape Canaveral, sealed its selection as the first U.S. long range missile proving ground.

http://www.spaceline.org/capehistory/3a.html

By the late 1950's, it was clear that geographic Cape Canaveral was running out of room, with launch sites lining the coastline from tip to tail. In April, 1960 the Department of Defense issued a report stating that, "(Cape Canaveral is) substantially saturated with missile launching facilities and test instrumentation."

Point: the infrastructure was already there long before the space program began in earnest, and the favorable weather conditions (read the links) also made it a relatively ideal for launches.

Although Merritt Island, located to the north of Cape Canaveral, remained the prime site selection for NASA, a conflict with the Air Force developed. The Air Force wanted to reserve that land to allow expansion of Air Force rocket programs. This forced NASA to review the following possible launch sites:

Merritt Island

Man-Made Facilities Offshore Cape Canaveral

Mayaguana Island, Bahamas

Cumberland Island, Georgia

Mainland Site Near Brownsville, Texas

White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico

Christmas Island, South Pacific

South Point, Island Of Hawaii

White Sands was rejected because the site was landlocked. Excessive cost of development ruled out Mayaguana, Christmas Island and Hawaii. Brownsville, Texas was eliminated because rockets would need to fly over populated areas. Cumberland Island was rejected due to unacceptable interference with the Intracoastal Waterway and a lack of infrastructure.

In point of fact, constructing a man-made launch site offshore Cape Canaveral was found to cost only 10% more than constructing a launch site on Merritt Island, but maintenance costs were projected to be astronomical. These prevailing factors left Merritt Island as the only logical choice.

Merritt Island produced just two negative factors, which were the high cost of land acquisition and higher than average cost of utilities. Merritt Island remained a natural choice due to a strong, rocket-based economy, talented work force and existing range infrastructure at Cape Canaveral that would not need to be duplicated.

As a result, NASA requested appropriation for initial land purchases on Merritt Island on September 1, 1961. The first request was for a 200 square mile area immediately north and west of existing launch sites on Cape Canaveral.

Houston:
http://history.nasa.gov/centerhistories/johnson.htm

On July 7, 1961, NASA Administrator James E. Webb directed the establishment of preliminary site criteria and a site selection team. Essential criteria for the new site included the availability of water transport and a first-class all-weather airport, proximity to a major telecommunications network, a well established pool of industrial and contractor support, a readily available supply of water, a mild climate permitting year-round outdoor work and a culturally attractive community. Houston was initially included by virtue of the San Jacinto Ordnance Depot, since military rather than commercial facilities were judged best for helping handle NASA's large retinue of jets and specialized equipment, and because of its recognized, prominent universities, including Rice, Texas, and Texas A&M.

As for "San Diego", any amount of research will show you that there are 3 stages to the Saturn V
The first stage was built in New Orleans by Boeing
The second and third stages were built at Huntington Beach and Seal Beach respectively. Neither is even remotely close to San Diego.
Huntington Beach is 82.4 miles
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=...,79.013672&ie=UTF8&z=9

Seal beach is 102 miles
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=...=1.552775,2.469177&z=9
Shows you how thorough the author was.

The locations were chosen because that's where the winners of the contracts had their production facilities. This is not abnormal.

2. "The entire machine was at the disposal of the politicians and financiers"
No shit sherlock. Who do you think sits on the Senate appropriations committee? Could it be... SENATORS??? POLITICIANS??? ZOMG THIS IS NEWS!!!!11

3. I'm pretty sure no one saw the space race as a "violent enterprise". Why wouldn't it be peaceful? It's a competition, a race. Not a war. We weren't shooting down soviet Soyez (sp?) modules.

4. The rest of this clip just seems irrelevant. So 2001 made people think Space was cool and might have been intentionally used to incite public enthusiasm. So what? PR is not a new concept, and wasn't back then either.

I say might, because like all conspiracy theories, it offers no real concrete proof. It offers a series of coincidences that look suspicious in a given context. The concrete proof tthat it actually provides is irrelevant, and merely proves the existence of one of the coincidences.

On to video 2...

 

[CasioTech]

go for it, bojangles.

 

[irishScott]

Video 2:

Alright, some outright stupid lies here:

1. "Michael Collins never got over the fact that he and been the only one of the three astronauts not to walk on the moon. He disappeared from sight for good." :laugh:
Uh..... no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...el_Collins_(astronaut) (Please note that the entire article is citied to the guy's autobiography)

During his day of solo flying around the Moon, Collins never felt lonely. Although it had been said that "not since Adam has any human known such solitude", Collins felt very much a part of the mission. In his autobiography he wrote that "this venture has been structured for three men, and I consider my third to be as necessary as either of the other two". During the 48 minutes of each orbit that he was out of radio contact with Earth, the feeling was not loneliness, but as "awareness, anticipation, satisfaction, confidence, almost exultation".[21]

After being released from a 21-day quarantine, the crew were feted across the United States and around the world as part of a 45-day "Giant Leap" tour. Prior to this trip NASA administrator Thomas O. Paine had approached Collins and said that Secretary of State William P. Rogers was interested in appointing Collins to the position of Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs. It wasn't until they returned to the U.S. in November that he sat down with Rogers and accepted the position on the urgings of Richard Nixon.[23] In this position he was in charge of various areas including exhibitions, speeches and history.

A year later, Collins left this position to become director of the National Air and Space Museum. He had held this position until 1978 when he stepped down to become undersecretary of the Smithsonian Institution. That same year he retired from the United States Air Force with the rank of Major General. In 1974 he attended the Harvard Business School and in 1980 became Vice President of LTV Aerospace in Arlington, Virginia. He resigned in 1985 to start his own business.

Collins wrote an autobiography in 1974 entitled Carrying the Fire: An Astronaut's Journeys. He has also written Liftoff: The Story of America's Adventure in Space (1988), a history of the American space program, Mission to Mars (1990), non-fiction book on human spaceflight to Mars, and Flying to the Moon : An Astronaut's Story (1994), a children's book on his experiences. Along with his writing, he has painted watercolors mostly relating to his Florida Everglades home, or aircraft that he flew, and rarely are space-related. Until recently he did not sign his paintings to avoid them increasing in price just because they had his autograph on them.

2. "Completely disoriented by his sudden fame Neil Armstrong retreated to a monestary," Once again, this is just blatantly wrong. The author is either a liar or a moron. (or both)

http://space.about.com/od/astr.../a/neilarmstrong_2.htm

From 1971 to 1979 Neil Armstrong was a professor of Aerospace Engineering at the University of Cincinnati. Until 1992, he served as chairman of Computing Technologies for Aviation in Charlottesville, Virginia and then became chairman of the board of AIL Systems; an electronics systems company in New York. Armstrong served on the National Commission on space from 1985 to 1986. In 1986, he was appointed as vice chairman of the presidential commission that investigated the Challenger explosion. Neil Armstrong is married and has two children. He currently lives quietly on his farm in Lebanon, Ohio.

3. All David Bowman proved was that Armstrong premediated what he was going to say and joked about it. I'd probably have been thinking about it myself. This is completely irrelevant.

4. So Buzz Aldrin got depressed and Nixon prepared a contingency speech if they died. It was a risky enterprise. It was experimental. The astronauts knew the risks. Also, if you study political history, you learn that Nixon was decidedly paranoid. None of this is out of the ordinary.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: CasioTech
go for it, bojangles.

I wish Buzz Aldrin would punch your teeth out

 

[irishScott]

I like Bojangles.

Video 3:

Most of this was pointless face-cuts.
The only other point was that NASA was unsure about it's ability to transmit live from the moon. Consider that the very idea of landing on the moon was ridiculously ambitious at the time of it's proposal. The idea of transmitting live video was equally ambitious. They accomplished both anyway. The video also gives a one-liner from one person without any context. For all we know, he was expressing concern about weather or other conditions disrupting the transmission.

Once again: lots of coincidences, no relevant facts.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Video 2:

Alright, some outright stupid lies here:

SNIP

Wow, are you really going to go through all of them? I'm impressed at your perseverance, I don't have that kind of patience.

Not that it will change the mind of any of the k00kbois, but it's a good effort.

 

[irishScott]

Video 4:

ROFL. Aside from the first quote by the intern, every quote was out of context. None of the close to 5 minutes of quotes following the intern mentioned anything specific. Few if any names, no events, nothing. Then the narrator comes in and tells us that they were talking about the filming of the moon landings. Riiiiiiiiiight. They could have been talking about anything. If the author wanted to ensure integrity, he would have allowed the audience to hear the question asked, or would have shown quotes about specific items/events. Once again, the author is simply a liar and/or a moron.

The narrator also mentions completely unsupported facts (ie: that the actors were CIA agents who signed a non-disclosure agreement and such). He literally provides NO evidence. Just states random crap as facts and moves on.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: irishScott
Video 2:

Alright, some outright stupid lies here:

SNIP

Wow, are you really going to go through all of them? I'm impressed at your perseverance, I don't have that kind of patience.

Not that it will change the mind of any of the k00kbois, but it's a good effort.

I'm bored and in a cynical mood tonight. Besides, learning a lot of cool stuff as I go.

 

[irishScott]

Video 5:

1. See previous.

2. I wonder how an Ex-KGB agent without a given background is suddenly an expert on the equipment used on the moon, the nature of the lunar surface, physics, and other areas relatively outside the purview of an intelligence operative?

2a. IE: The video clearly shows that the flag wasn't "waving in the wind". Atmosphere or no atmosphere, the flag is attached to a pole that is shifting position. By any laws of physics It's going to move. Given the way it's mounted, it's probably going to move around a vertical axis (the pole maybe? :shocked

3. The narrator contradicts himself. If all photos were destroyed, how did he come across an undeveloped roll of film?

4. Ambrose Chapel. Who the hell... As far as I'm concerned he's just another guy with no proof. He says a lot with nothing to back it up.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Jessica69

Originally posted by: jemcam

Why aren't military secrets just sold to all the newspapers daily?

Because it's TREASON?

There is that........and newspapers don't pay worth squat. If anyone is going to sell military secrets, it won't be to the newspapers, it'll be to a foreign government......they pay a LOT better, and our history is littered with people who've done just that, even quite recently.

If you're going to commit treason, why not go for all the money you can......forget a newspaper....Russia, China, Israel.....and a lot more countries are more than willing to pay a fortune for secrets, and there are always Americans willing to accept that risk and sell secrets.

Here you go, alkemyst:

For sale: West?s deadly nuclear secrets


The FBI has been accused of covering up a file detailing government dealings with a network stealing nuclear secrets


Spies Caught Selling Shuttle Secrets to the Chinese


Gregg William Bergersen Charged with Selling U.S. Secrets


FBI arrests NRI engineer for selling B-52 secrets


Iran-Contra Affair anyone?


U.S. Official Charged With Selling Secrets


U.S. charges top CIA official with selling secrets to Russians - Harold Nicholson




Is that enough for now, alkemyst? Seems that in less than 10 seconds of searching on Google, I found quite a few recent (like 2008 and a little earlier) examples of secrets of the U.S. Govt being sold to the highest bidder.........need more?

my reply was more of sarcasm...put let me know where the blueprints to the latest fighters are online, I'd love to download a set.

So, alkemyst is saying that Jessie Venture is committing treason?

 

[irishScott]

Video 6:

Quotes ridiculously out of context. Any of those quotes could be about anything. Then the narrator starts claiming that the CIA sent 150,000 troops to Vietnam with the express purpose of hunting down 4 apparently rogue agents who participated in the filming. WTF.

 

[irishScott]

Video 7:

Once again, more ridiculous out-of-context quotes and statements without support.

 

[irishScott]

Video 8:

Finally, completely out of context.

More specifically: "Both the producer and the director noted that Walters was in perfect shape". So they're doctors now are they? Did they give him a physical? The guy was 85 years old (according to the French newspaper clipping shown in the video). He died from a stroke. Strokes are not that uncommon among people his age.


CasioTech, you are seriously messed up if you believe this shit. I've heard some moon landing conspiracies that actually makes some twisted false sort of sense. This was a bunch of pure unsubstantiated, blatantly wrong historically inaccurate by any definition bullshit.

In any case, I'm pretty sure the only reason you posted those videos was to provide irrefutable support for your argument. Irrefutable because you probably thought that no one on these forums would be bored enough to go through it. You were wrong, I win. Have a nice life.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
The thing about 9/11 is that everyone seems to have taken a position of either the whole thing is exactly as it seems, or the whole thing was a giant government conspiracy. If you watch the footage of the towers collapsing, something seems off. They seem to fall too quickly and perfectly. Yet if you start to think that maybe things aren't exactly as has been presented, the hardcore tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists try to suck you in and make you believe a million other improbable things. This, of course, leads to the characterization of anyone who doesn't 100% agree with the official story as a nut-job.

I, for one, do not think everything happened exactly as it appeared. I'm not speculating as to what did happen, but I do think the official story is wrong. But there's almost no way of further investigating it, and no way of convincing anyone with access to the right information to do a serious inquiry.

It looks odd because of the way it was collapsing, which was from the inside out. The fact is that the buildings didn't fall from the impact, they fell from the heat of the fire. The fire was hottest in the interior of the building, which caused the center pillars to fail, causing the building to implode rather than topple over.

 

[SSSnail]

The government only keeps secrets it doesn't want you to know.

 

[Mill]

This is the best fucking thread I have ever read. It is like a douchebag convention with all the morons and trolls getting owned.

Anandtech needs at least one of these a month.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim


What brought down the 3rd tower? magic?

uncontrolled fire.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: Mill
This is the best fucking thread I have ever read. It is like a douchebag convention with all the morons and trolls getting owned.

Anandtech needs at least one of these a month.

If it keeps the trolls tied up in one place, I'm all for that.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Mill
This is the best fucking thread I have ever read. It is like a douchebag convention with all the morons and trolls getting owned.

Anandtech needs at least one of these a month.

Just so we have a monthly reminder of who has any sense of logic and who is a complete fucking moron?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: IcebergSlim


What brought down the 3rd tower? magic?

uncontrolled fire.

Nope MAGIC MISILES!!! PEW PEW!!!!!