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Interesting theory about hookers and porn
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homercles337
Diamond Member
ProfJohn
Lifer
Will take the mod about 3 seconds to prove you are an idiot.
He is from Arkansas, I am from Florida. ISP should prove that, but have you little fun.
And for the record, on Feb 22 at 3:30pm I was on an airplane landing in Va, or had just got off the airplane actually. If you could seach for me on that day you would find that there should only be a few, if any, posts made that day.
RallyMaster
Diamond Member
Hmm...paying money to a hooker...
is that so different from buying gifts for a girl you like so you end up sleeping on the same bed some night?
is that so different from buying gifts for a girl you like so you end up sleeping on the same bed some night?
shortylickens
No Lifer
Not even close.
I take it you never read anything here on ATOT.
We have this discussion all the time, and I always post the same thing.
Perkel.com
Dig down and you will find a link for his views on sex in america. He goes over all this and more.
DO NOT DO IT FROM A WORK COMPUTER!
The act of prostitution, is not illegal in Canada.
What is illegal are the activities which relate to prostitution:
1. Communicating in a public place for the purposes of prostitution
2. Providing directions, taking or showing someone to a common bawdy house
3. Procuring
4. The biggie, living on the avails of prostitution
What is illegal are the activities which relate to prostitution:
1. Communicating in a public place for the purposes of prostitution
2. Providing directions, taking or showing someone to a common bawdy house
3. Procuring
4. The biggie, living on the avails of prostitution
shortylickens
No Lifer
Since some of you may not feel like visiting the site, here is the basis of his argument, taken directly from his site with no edits or deletions.
Note that he says a lot more throughout the site , but this is probably the most important stuff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Sex for Money always Prostitution?
Although the law defines prostitution as basically sex for money, this rule doesn't always apply. There are many cases where people are paid money or "something of value" in exchange for sexual contact and it is not prostitution. It seems logical at this point to list examples of sex for money that is not prostitution in order to more accurately develop a set of rules to determine what prostitution is by examining what it is not.
For example, the making of a porn movie is not prostitution. But in a porn movie you have sexual contact and the actors are paid to have sex in front of a camera. This is clearly sex for money, but it's not prostitution.
We have all seen movies involving love making on the screen. Many sex scenes have even made it to prime time television. They involve simulated sex. Simulated sex is where the actors don't have genital penetration. The visuals are often faked, although in many cases, real sexual stimulation occurs. Although much of the sex is simulated sex, often the scene involves the licking of nipples, grinding of groins, kissing of the thighs and navels, penises get hard, faces get red, nipples become erect. These acts are real and these people are doing it for money. Is this prostitution? No! Is this sex for money? Yes it is. But, they're making a movie. Thus it is legal to have sex for money in the context of making a movie.
A man goes into a topless bar and sits down next to the stage. He pulls out a dollar bill, folds it lengthwise and lays it on the stage. The female dancer sees the money and moves right in front of him. She shakes her breasts in his face, spreads her legs, shows him her ass and moves her hips in a humping motion. She then turns and hisses him on the forehead and pulls her garter indicating for him to put the money there. He does, and she repeats the performance for the next man with a dollar. Is this prostitution? No. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. But it's dancing.
A woman is working for a large company. Her supervisor is a handsome single man. An opportunity for a promotion opens up. She indicates to her supervisor that she's willing to have sex with him if she gets the job. The new job pays more than her present job. They have known each other for years and have dated in the past but never had sex. She has sex with him and she gets the job. Is it unethical? Yes it is. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. Is it prostitution? No.
A man and a woman are dating. They are out shopping and she sees something she wants. He asks if he buys the item for her if she'll have sex with him. She agrees. Is that prostitution? No. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. But it's in the context of a relationship. It may be a screwed up relationship, but it's not a crime. We are Americans and we have the right to have a screwed up relationship.
A couple is having sexual problems. Their marriage is in a rut and they are talking about divorce. The problem is that the "spark" is gone. Sex just isn't good any more. That may be a bad reason to divorce, but it happens. In an attempt to save the relationship, the go to a sexual counselor. The counselor examines the couple and determines that they need training in sexual technique. This training is to be accomplished by sexual surrogates. The couple is taken to a room where a staff male and a staff female engage in sexual intercourse with the couple and train them in sexual techniques. The staff members are total strangers and are having sex with the couple for money. Is this prostitution? No! Is it sex for money? Yes it is. But it is in the context of therapy. Even if the sexual surrogates are not licensed or trained it's not prostitution. It is at best a license violation.
A smart young man has an affair with a rich old woman. She is lonely and she desperately wants sexual contact. He lives with her and takes care of her needs. She takes care of his expenses. Both know what's going on. He knows if he doesn't give her sex that he's gone. She knows that if she doesn't give him money he's gone. However, they have lived together for a long time and are both getting what they want. Is this prostitution? No. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. A prosecutor might in theory be able to press criminal charges, but what jury would actually convict either party of prostitution, especially if there were other things that they did together besides sex and money.
A man pulls his truck into a truck stop to spend the night. Just as he parks a woman knocks on his door and asks him if he wants a date. He says, "how much for a blow job?" She responds, I'll suck you for $40. He gives her a pair of twenties and she goes for it. Is this prostitution? Yes it is.
What makes Sex for Money not Prostitution?
We have now listed several examples of sex for money that is not prostitution. What is the common element that makes sex for money not prostitution? If you are making a movie then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it is part of dancing on stage then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of a relationship then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of therapy then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of getting a job then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of friendship then sex for money isn't prostitution. If they are living together then sex for money isn't prostitution.
It seems that the common element that makes sex for money not prostitution is that if it's not only sex for money. In all these cases there is a third element involved. It's always sex for money and something else. The one example of prostitution was when there was only sex for money and nothing else. Thus, although the statute defines prostitution as sexual contact in exchange for something of value, it seems like in practice that the real rule is an exchange of something of value for only sex and nothing else. Because if you are buying sex and friendship or sex in the context of a relationship or therapy, or making a movie, then the third element makes the event not an act of prostitution, even with the element of sex for money.
Thus the language of the statute is incomplete because it doesn't say what it really means. Prostitution is more accurately defined as:
"Prostitution", a person commits prostitution if he, in return for something of value to be received by the person or by a third person, engages or offers or agrees to engage in only sexual conduct with another person.
Sex for Money vs. Sex for Free
The State has outlawed sex for money, or rather paying money for only sexual contact. But the sex itself is legal for free. There is no sex act that can be done by a sex worker that can?t be done for free legally by a friend who doesn?t charge any money, or for that matter, a total stranger that doesn?t charge any money. So what is the difference between free sex and paid for sex? This is the all-important question to answer so that we can determine the will of the legislature and what they were trying to prevent when they made prostitution illegal.
Making money isn?t a crime. Sex isn?t a crime either. It?s the combination of money and sex that is criminal; especially when there are no other redeeming elements involved. One must therefore assume that the legislature believes that act of paying money for sex alters the sex into some form of immoral sex which members of society should not do.
Presumably, the intent of the legislature is to discourage sex that is totally impersonal. A situation where a woman is reduced to a warm wet hole for a penis to ejaculate into. My example of the woman and the trucker is an example of this. The proposition is that for $40 the woman will provide a female hole for the man to use. The legislature perhaps presumes that this sort of sex is immoral. One could debate the virtues of this but that would be a waste of time. The law is that this is illegal and the courts are bound to uphold the law unless they rule the law unconstitutional. We have however demonstrated by example that not all sex for money is prostitution and that other elements seem to change the nature of the act.
For example, a woman has sexual intercourse with her boss to get a promotion. This is not prostitution even though her co-workers might call her a whore. The reason this isn?t prostitution is that she knows her boss. They are friends and they have a business relationship. They are not total strangers. The woman is more than a wet hole; she is a person with a name.
The sexual therapist recommends a sexual surrogate to help a woman who is frigid. He is an expert in his field even though he may have no formal training. He is still a total stranger. He talks to the woman to get to know her. He touches her gently to get her to relax and open up sexually. He then has intercourse with her and helps her with her sexual problem. He receives a fee for his services. This is not prostitution because the sexual surrogate is acting as a professional and is providing a personal service of helping a woman deal with a specific problem. They have a relationship. He is the healer and she is the patient and they are solving a problem. He is not a moving penis provider who is acting as a vibrator replacement. He is a person, and although they are strangers, the sex is personal. Because the sex is a personal act between two people who have a relationship, the act is not prostitution, even though it is sex with a stranger for money.
Two people are making a movie together. They are filming the love scene. They are engaged in simulated sex. They are naked and their genitals are touching although he is not in her, his penis touches her clitoris and they are sexually excited. They generally use very attractive people to play these roles. If the sex looks hot on the screen is most be very sexual to be there when it is being shot. In the scene he licks her body and the camera captures her response. Although it?s not sexual intercourse, it is sexual contact that falls within the meaning of the statute. The two actors have never met before this movie was made. But yet it isn?t prostitution because these people are professional actors. They do this for a living. It?s their job and they are relating as one professional to another to make a movie, and they are being paid money to do it. But it?s not just a warm wet hole. The act has meaning beyond the sexual act.
It seems that the intent of the legislature is to prevent sexual contact that involves only genital stimulation between total strangers with no other redeeming factors involved. If the act involves other factors then it is not merely a hard penis ejaculating into a wet hole. If the people involved have a relationship as co-workers, friends, or a client patient relationship, then the sex for money is not prostitution. Therefore the question is, is the services that are provided by escort services more like a whore at a truck stop? Or do escort services provide a personal service in the context of a professional/client relationship where there is a personal relationship in which a sexual act may or may not occur. Escort services are not in the sex for money business. It is a sexually charged profession and human nature and human instinct sometimes causes two consenting adults to choose to have sex, which is their right under the law. But when they do, if that occurs, it?s in the con text of getting to know each other and deciding that is what they want to do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After that he goes into detail about all the escort services he's used.
EDIT: THIS POST IS HUGE! Please DONT quote it.
Note that he says a lot more throughout the site , but this is probably the most important stuff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is Sex for Money always Prostitution?
Although the law defines prostitution as basically sex for money, this rule doesn't always apply. There are many cases where people are paid money or "something of value" in exchange for sexual contact and it is not prostitution. It seems logical at this point to list examples of sex for money that is not prostitution in order to more accurately develop a set of rules to determine what prostitution is by examining what it is not.
For example, the making of a porn movie is not prostitution. But in a porn movie you have sexual contact and the actors are paid to have sex in front of a camera. This is clearly sex for money, but it's not prostitution.
We have all seen movies involving love making on the screen. Many sex scenes have even made it to prime time television. They involve simulated sex. Simulated sex is where the actors don't have genital penetration. The visuals are often faked, although in many cases, real sexual stimulation occurs. Although much of the sex is simulated sex, often the scene involves the licking of nipples, grinding of groins, kissing of the thighs and navels, penises get hard, faces get red, nipples become erect. These acts are real and these people are doing it for money. Is this prostitution? No! Is this sex for money? Yes it is. But, they're making a movie. Thus it is legal to have sex for money in the context of making a movie.
A man goes into a topless bar and sits down next to the stage. He pulls out a dollar bill, folds it lengthwise and lays it on the stage. The female dancer sees the money and moves right in front of him. She shakes her breasts in his face, spreads her legs, shows him her ass and moves her hips in a humping motion. She then turns and hisses him on the forehead and pulls her garter indicating for him to put the money there. He does, and she repeats the performance for the next man with a dollar. Is this prostitution? No. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. But it's dancing.
A woman is working for a large company. Her supervisor is a handsome single man. An opportunity for a promotion opens up. She indicates to her supervisor that she's willing to have sex with him if she gets the job. The new job pays more than her present job. They have known each other for years and have dated in the past but never had sex. She has sex with him and she gets the job. Is it unethical? Yes it is. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. Is it prostitution? No.
A man and a woman are dating. They are out shopping and she sees something she wants. He asks if he buys the item for her if she'll have sex with him. She agrees. Is that prostitution? No. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. But it's in the context of a relationship. It may be a screwed up relationship, but it's not a crime. We are Americans and we have the right to have a screwed up relationship.
A couple is having sexual problems. Their marriage is in a rut and they are talking about divorce. The problem is that the "spark" is gone. Sex just isn't good any more. That may be a bad reason to divorce, but it happens. In an attempt to save the relationship, the go to a sexual counselor. The counselor examines the couple and determines that they need training in sexual technique. This training is to be accomplished by sexual surrogates. The couple is taken to a room where a staff male and a staff female engage in sexual intercourse with the couple and train them in sexual techniques. The staff members are total strangers and are having sex with the couple for money. Is this prostitution? No! Is it sex for money? Yes it is. But it is in the context of therapy. Even if the sexual surrogates are not licensed or trained it's not prostitution. It is at best a license violation.
A smart young man has an affair with a rich old woman. She is lonely and she desperately wants sexual contact. He lives with her and takes care of her needs. She takes care of his expenses. Both know what's going on. He knows if he doesn't give her sex that he's gone. She knows that if she doesn't give him money he's gone. However, they have lived together for a long time and are both getting what they want. Is this prostitution? No. Is it sex for money? Yes it is. A prosecutor might in theory be able to press criminal charges, but what jury would actually convict either party of prostitution, especially if there were other things that they did together besides sex and money.
A man pulls his truck into a truck stop to spend the night. Just as he parks a woman knocks on his door and asks him if he wants a date. He says, "how much for a blow job?" She responds, I'll suck you for $40. He gives her a pair of twenties and she goes for it. Is this prostitution? Yes it is.
What makes Sex for Money not Prostitution?
We have now listed several examples of sex for money that is not prostitution. What is the common element that makes sex for money not prostitution? If you are making a movie then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it is part of dancing on stage then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of a relationship then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of therapy then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of getting a job then sex for money isn't prostitution. If it's in the context of friendship then sex for money isn't prostitution. If they are living together then sex for money isn't prostitution.
It seems that the common element that makes sex for money not prostitution is that if it's not only sex for money. In all these cases there is a third element involved. It's always sex for money and something else. The one example of prostitution was when there was only sex for money and nothing else. Thus, although the statute defines prostitution as sexual contact in exchange for something of value, it seems like in practice that the real rule is an exchange of something of value for only sex and nothing else. Because if you are buying sex and friendship or sex in the context of a relationship or therapy, or making a movie, then the third element makes the event not an act of prostitution, even with the element of sex for money.
Thus the language of the statute is incomplete because it doesn't say what it really means. Prostitution is more accurately defined as:
"Prostitution", a person commits prostitution if he, in return for something of value to be received by the person or by a third person, engages or offers or agrees to engage in only sexual conduct with another person.
Sex for Money vs. Sex for Free
The State has outlawed sex for money, or rather paying money for only sexual contact. But the sex itself is legal for free. There is no sex act that can be done by a sex worker that can?t be done for free legally by a friend who doesn?t charge any money, or for that matter, a total stranger that doesn?t charge any money. So what is the difference between free sex and paid for sex? This is the all-important question to answer so that we can determine the will of the legislature and what they were trying to prevent when they made prostitution illegal.
Making money isn?t a crime. Sex isn?t a crime either. It?s the combination of money and sex that is criminal; especially when there are no other redeeming elements involved. One must therefore assume that the legislature believes that act of paying money for sex alters the sex into some form of immoral sex which members of society should not do.
Presumably, the intent of the legislature is to discourage sex that is totally impersonal. A situation where a woman is reduced to a warm wet hole for a penis to ejaculate into. My example of the woman and the trucker is an example of this. The proposition is that for $40 the woman will provide a female hole for the man to use. The legislature perhaps presumes that this sort of sex is immoral. One could debate the virtues of this but that would be a waste of time. The law is that this is illegal and the courts are bound to uphold the law unless they rule the law unconstitutional. We have however demonstrated by example that not all sex for money is prostitution and that other elements seem to change the nature of the act.
For example, a woman has sexual intercourse with her boss to get a promotion. This is not prostitution even though her co-workers might call her a whore. The reason this isn?t prostitution is that she knows her boss. They are friends and they have a business relationship. They are not total strangers. The woman is more than a wet hole; she is a person with a name.
The sexual therapist recommends a sexual surrogate to help a woman who is frigid. He is an expert in his field even though he may have no formal training. He is still a total stranger. He talks to the woman to get to know her. He touches her gently to get her to relax and open up sexually. He then has intercourse with her and helps her with her sexual problem. He receives a fee for his services. This is not prostitution because the sexual surrogate is acting as a professional and is providing a personal service of helping a woman deal with a specific problem. They have a relationship. He is the healer and she is the patient and they are solving a problem. He is not a moving penis provider who is acting as a vibrator replacement. He is a person, and although they are strangers, the sex is personal. Because the sex is a personal act between two people who have a relationship, the act is not prostitution, even though it is sex with a stranger for money.
Two people are making a movie together. They are filming the love scene. They are engaged in simulated sex. They are naked and their genitals are touching although he is not in her, his penis touches her clitoris and they are sexually excited. They generally use very attractive people to play these roles. If the sex looks hot on the screen is most be very sexual to be there when it is being shot. In the scene he licks her body and the camera captures her response. Although it?s not sexual intercourse, it is sexual contact that falls within the meaning of the statute. The two actors have never met before this movie was made. But yet it isn?t prostitution because these people are professional actors. They do this for a living. It?s their job and they are relating as one professional to another to make a movie, and they are being paid money to do it. But it?s not just a warm wet hole. The act has meaning beyond the sexual act.
It seems that the intent of the legislature is to prevent sexual contact that involves only genital stimulation between total strangers with no other redeeming factors involved. If the act involves other factors then it is not merely a hard penis ejaculating into a wet hole. If the people involved have a relationship as co-workers, friends, or a client patient relationship, then the sex for money is not prostitution. Therefore the question is, is the services that are provided by escort services more like a whore at a truck stop? Or do escort services provide a personal service in the context of a professional/client relationship where there is a personal relationship in which a sexual act may or may not occur. Escort services are not in the sex for money business. It is a sexually charged profession and human nature and human instinct sometimes causes two consenting adults to choose to have sex, which is their right under the law. But when they do, if that occurs, it?s in the con text of getting to know each other and deciding that is what they want to do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After that he goes into detail about all the escort services he's used.
EDIT: THIS POST IS HUGE! Please DONT quote it.
AlienCraft
Lifer
It's done this way every day.
hellokeith
Golden Member
I talked to a girl (model) who was saved from porn. She said that it is like rape, in that the girl cannot stop the sex even if the act is very painful. She didn't give me a monetary figure, only said that she "was paid an obscene amount of money to be raped on film" [her exact words]. She lived in California during that time for about 18 months, and then moved back to her home state.
Ridiculous. First, she enters the act voluntarily. Secondly, you don't think if she started screaming "Stop. Help, he's raping me, help," the camerman/director etc. wouldn't step in? The vast majority of the "rape" comparisons I see on this board are complete BS; people here use the term way too broadly. Just because you were embarrassed or uncomfortable during a sex act doesn't mean you were raped.
It sounds like this girl you spoke to simply decided some time ago that it was better to be thought of as a victim than as a slut. (Which is the probably the mentality responsible for the majority of rape allegations in the US.)
totalcommand
Platinum Member
ahh, the worst of the conservatives have the worst of morals in private.
you're a lot like Newt Gingrich calling for Clinton's impeachment while he himself was having an affair.
shortylickens
No Lifer
I know this is late, but I forgot to keep checking up to see if anyone posted anything intelligent in this thread.
Why is it every time I make a really darn fine post the thread either dies, or everybody turns into assholes?
Why is it every time I make a really darn fine post the thread either dies, or everybody turns into assholes?
manowar821
Diamond Member
LOL, disgusting.
IMO porn stars are no better than whores. Get a real job, sluts.
IMO porn stars are no better than whores. Get a real job, sluts.
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