JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2007
- 11,925
- 2
- 0
I supported Bush after the invasion of Afghanistan. It was a just war to go after the Taliban for harboring AQ, it was well-executed and done with the approval of the rest of the free world. It even gained us respect with the rest of the Arab world.
Since then, under his command, his staff, his appointees we've had:
- cherry-picking of the evidence of WMD in Iraq to lie to the US public about the certainty of any thread
- lying to the American public about a connection between Iraq and 9/11
- lying to the UN about the certainty of WMD in Iraq
- lying to congress about how likely he would be to use the authority they gave him to decide whether to go to war with Iraq
- going to war in Iraq with no plans for managing the aftermath of "mission accomplished"
- 4,000+ American dead after "mission accomplished" because of that bungling
- tens of thousands of American soldiers crippled, poor care of veterans until shamed into better care by press exposes
- stripping troops and resources from Afghanistan instead of finishing the job there
- torture in "rendition" offshoring, Iraq and gitmo, including beating prisoners to death
- lying about whether torture occurred
- warrantless wiretapping of American citizens in the US and lying about same
- suppressing science that doesn't agree with his faith-based and political beliefs
- incompetent political appointees bungling the response to Katrina
- illegal partisan hiring tests for nonpartisan jobs, and illegal partisan firing
- illegally shredding emails and illegally using non-government accounts to hide government work
- almost restarting the cold war with Russia through arrogant bumbling in Georgia and Poland
... and I'm probably leaving out many other reasons why people don't approve of his job performance.
Since then, under his command, his staff, his appointees we've had:
- cherry-picking of the evidence of WMD in Iraq to lie to the US public about the certainty of any thread
- lying to the American public about a connection between Iraq and 9/11
- lying to the UN about the certainty of WMD in Iraq
- lying to congress about how likely he would be to use the authority they gave him to decide whether to go to war with Iraq
- going to war in Iraq with no plans for managing the aftermath of "mission accomplished"
- 4,000+ American dead after "mission accomplished" because of that bungling
- tens of thousands of American soldiers crippled, poor care of veterans until shamed into better care by press exposes
- stripping troops and resources from Afghanistan instead of finishing the job there
- torture in "rendition" offshoring, Iraq and gitmo, including beating prisoners to death
- lying about whether torture occurred
- warrantless wiretapping of American citizens in the US and lying about same
- suppressing science that doesn't agree with his faith-based and political beliefs
- incompetent political appointees bungling the response to Katrina
- illegal partisan hiring tests for nonpartisan jobs, and illegal partisan firing
- illegally shredding emails and illegally using non-government accounts to hide government work
- almost restarting the cold war with Russia through arrogant bumbling in Georgia and Poland
... and I'm probably leaving out many other reasons why people don't approve of his job performance.
147 Democrats voted against the war, including my House representative John Lewis, and i personally never supported the war. not surprisingly i did not approve of GWB in 2002. i highly respect all those who voted NAY, especially the seven Republicans.
"In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent who courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq"
"Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Re[resentatives in voting NAY, on October 11, 2002, to the unprovoked use of force against Iraq"
http://usliberals.about.com/od...ship/a/IraqNayVote.htm
While it's true that the president can't declare war, it is also true that he can send troops anywhere in the world on a whim. Once the troops are there, it's easy to to convince Congress to vote for war within the grace period. After all, if they try to pull out then that might endanger the troops, which will cost them votes.
Here are a few reasons to hate Bush
1) He has created the largest government deficit in history. Even if you remove the costs of the Iraq War and Afghanistan War, his deficit spending is outrageous and unnecessary. The president has a lot more influence on the budget than some are willing to admit. A history lesson is enough of a reminder to this fact. In other words, the blame lies with Bush more than anyone else.
2) He is a foreign relations nightmare. Not only is he generally a poor diplomat, not only did he choose to ignore every dissenting voice in the diplomatic community, including many of our close allies, but his general demeanor exudes stupidity. America has lost face by keeping Bush for 8 years. Our reputation is worse off because of him.
3) He has pushed for cuts in science and education funding across the board. No Child Left Behind left many educational institutions worse off than before. He has cut funding for hundreds of thousands of low income college students. He refuses to invest in the future of America, choosing instead to give out free corporate handouts in the form of enormous tax cuts.
4) He's the first US president in history to refuse UN election inspectors
5) Torture
OP: Bush had the highest approval rating in 2002 of any president ever, yet has been blamed solely for a war which has been questionable (mind you unfairly as all democrats had the same info as bush and voted for the war - anyone who wants to say otherwise,.. get real).
M: Not true so it's you who isn't real.
OP: Has now been blamed for the current economic downturn (which he is not at fault for - anyone who wants to say otherwise is ignorant of how the economy works)
M: You are ignorant of how the economy works. It's all Bush's fault. See how intelligently I argue compared to you?
OP: Now the same American public thinks he is the worst, when they thought he was the best (at least based on opinion polls).
M: It's not just an opinion. It's a fact though it has never been true of me. I have known from day one he would be a total disaster.
OP: Is it short term memory? American society that likes to blame someone and looks for a scapegoat? Media Hype? An instant gratification society?
M: It is because a huge portion of the American people, mostly old and dying, are total backward ignorant and uneducated insular ingrown clowns who think they are great because they wave a flag around like apes hooting in a tree.
OP: Get beyond the emotion and let me know something substantial,....
M: You couldn't get much more stupid or emotional yourself. All you've done here is spout your ignorant ideas and rant.
M: Not true so it's you who isn't real.
OP: Has now been blamed for the current economic downturn (which he is not at fault for - anyone who wants to say otherwise is ignorant of how the economy works)
M: You are ignorant of how the economy works. It's all Bush's fault. See how intelligently I argue compared to you?
OP: Now the same American public thinks he is the worst, when they thought he was the best (at least based on opinion polls).
M: It's not just an opinion. It's a fact though it has never been true of me. I have known from day one he would be a total disaster.
OP: Is it short term memory? American society that likes to blame someone and looks for a scapegoat? Media Hype? An instant gratification society?
M: It is because a huge portion of the American people, mostly old and dying, are total backward ignorant and uneducated insular ingrown clowns who think they are great because they wave a flag around like apes hooting in a tree.
OP: Get beyond the emotion and let me know something substantial,....
M: You couldn't get much more stupid or emotional yourself. All you've done here is spout your ignorant ideas and rant.
Are you stating a political truth or implying that Obama voters were against the war. The information I've heard is that his position was unpopular and politically risky. Do you have other information?
Dr. Zaus
Lifer
- Oct 16, 2008
- 11,770
- 347
- 126
It depends. If he was looking to run for president in 2008, then it was not the 'smart' political move as even Kerry and Hillary where to weak to stand up against the president. But if he was looking to run for senate in 2004 it wasn't to hard to stand with his base at an anti-war rally and hold a moderate/reasonable position "let the inspectors do their job".
so, yes, risky to his presidential ambitions but a good base rallying move in his bid for us senator. That said I don't think he was being dishonest about his position, he even took the anti-war crowd to task by talking about the wars he had supported.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 66
- 91
His pre-9/11 approval ratings were nothing to write home about. 9/11 just catalyzed people's patriotism, and most of us (myself included) appreciated his decisiveness after the attack. In retrospect I think his over-decisiveness is one of his worst qualities - he seems to lack the capacity for self-doubt or introspection, and it sometimes makes him sure he's doing the right thing when in fact he couldn't be further from the truth.
No, it's not in this case. Back then if you were against the war you were considered un-American and/or a coward. Maybe you don't remember it but I sure as hell do. I'll admit it. I drank GWB's kool-aid on Iraq having WMD's and ties to 9/11. Maybe that's why I despise him so much now? Anyway, those who were against the war from the start are right and those who weren't are wrong. The OP is as well but he's more a fool because he excuses GWB&Co's actions.
techs
Lifer
- Sep 26, 2000
- 28,561
- 4
- 0
Bush was only in office for 9 months before 9-11. Not enough time for his screwups to become known and the effects of the Bush legislative agenda to take effect.
And after 9-11 the country rallied around Bush, who clearly said the right things.
With the country "at war" no one questioned Bush much on anything.
And Bushie passed his huge tax cut.
Hence, the huge tax cut plus the rally round the President were responsible for the huge Bush approval rating. If you add in very effective Bush propaganda machine, you have record breaking numbers.
Yet, none of these numbers actually reflected a single Bush 'success' in terms of what he did as President. Even the tax cut looked great, at least until it failed to generate revenue to cover its cost.
So consider like this. Bush was America's boyfriend she met in a bar, went home with, and had some pretty good sex. Next morning she woke up thinking she was in love.
But then she found out Bush was abusive boy friend. And it has taken many years of therapy for America to realize what Bush really is.
And after 9-11 the country rallied around Bush, who clearly said the right things.
With the country "at war" no one questioned Bush much on anything.
And Bushie passed his huge tax cut.
Hence, the huge tax cut plus the rally round the President were responsible for the huge Bush approval rating. If you add in very effective Bush propaganda machine, you have record breaking numbers.
Yet, none of these numbers actually reflected a single Bush 'success' in terms of what he did as President. Even the tax cut looked great, at least until it failed to generate revenue to cover its cost.
So consider like this. Bush was America's boyfriend she met in a bar, went home with, and had some pretty good sex. Next morning she woke up thinking she was in love.
But then she found out Bush was abusive boy friend. And it has taken many years of therapy for America to realize what Bush really is.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
As popular as GWB was in the past tense, his rating are really really bad now. Only one person in four approves and that is down from the only one in three GWB has spent most of the last three years at.
But that is perhaps in a nutshell what is wrong with GWB, he does not care if he has positive results or not. While GWB surrounds himself with advisers who tell him how great he is.
But that is perhaps in a nutshell what is wrong with GWB, he does not care if he has positive results or not. While GWB surrounds himself with advisers who tell him how great he is.
the same Obama who said he wasn't sure how he would have voted, who wasn't privy to the cooked intel given to congress, and who said his position on the war wasn't that far from George Bush's?
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