Interesting piece of Led Zeppelin trivia

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Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,158
59
91
grrl said:
Agreed. I wonder how many people here have ever heard MC5.



Considering how many albums they made that's a pretty lame assessment. You can fault them for not crediting the original composers - and they certainly weren't the first to do that, especially where blues tunes were concerned - but calling them unoriginal doesn't work. For one thing, many of the songs they 'stole' were heavily reworked. And how does that compare to, say, early Van Halen and all the covers they did? Or, to give another example, all the songs Eric Clapton has covered (with proper crediting, of course)?
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Difference between a band like Van Halen and Zeppelin is, Van Halen actually credited the original artist when they did a cover.

And I don't think too many of the artists VH covered had a problem with it.....Ray Davies probably laughed all the way to the bank, since VH's first album with that song on it sold more than all the Kinks albums combined.

I love some Zeppelin, but they flat-out stole.
 
Fritzo

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
Pacfanweb said:
Difference between a band like Van Halen and Zeppelin is, Van Halen actually credited the original artist when they did a cover.

And I don't think too many of the artists VH covered had a problem with it.....Ray Davies probably laughed all the way to the bank, since VH's first album with that song on it sold more than all the Kinks albums combined.

I love some Zeppelin, but they flat-out stole.
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Yeah, I really don't care too much about it. I have all of the originals of the music they used, and 9/10 times it's god awful. They took these songs and turned them into something cool. Also a lot of it was (and still is) public domain. Howard Stern had a discussion about this some time ago. it's available here:

http://www.dogmaticblog.com/2007/06/28/howard-stern-exposes-led-zeppelin-as-a-farce/

BTW- Here's a quick list of some of thier "lifted" material (incomplete)

Little Richard's Long Tall Sally - improvised drum track in Rock n Roll

Robert Johnson's Travelling Riverside Blues - Same title (also an improvised session)

Bukka White's Shake Em On Down - Hats of to Roy Harper

Bert Jansch's Blackwaterside - Black Mountain Side (actually, this was a traditional folk song that goes back to at least the 30's, so Bert took it as well)

John Renbourn - Nobody's Fault but Mine - Same title. This is an example where the orginal actually sounds pretty good :)

Spirit's Taurus - The intro to Stairway to Heaven. The rest of the song is original.

Muddy Waters' You Need Love - lyrics used to Whole Lotta Love. The music is original.

Howlin Wolf - Killin' Floor - Lyrics and parts of music used in Lemon Song.

Blind Willie Johnson - In My Time of Dying - Same title. This song was public domain and remade by dozens of blues artists.

Davey Graham - She Moved Through the Fair - White Summer (this was often paired with Black Mountain Side during live performances)

Joan Baez - Babe I'm Going to Leave You - Same title. Joan's version sounds like someone killing a cat with a power drill while a flamenco guitarist is playing in the background. The source of this song is listed as "traditional".

Owen Hand - She Likes It - Music used for Poor Tom

Otis Rush - I Can't Quit You Babe - Same title.

15th Century Folk Song - Gallows Pole - A heavy version of a song that was played everywhere on the countryside of England.

There are a few others, but please look up the originals on Youtube and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
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grrl

grrl

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
6,204
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LikeLinus said:
<snip>
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Pacfanweb said:
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Lots of bunched up underwear here. I didn't defend what they did or deny they stole songs, my point was calling them unoriginal doesn't work. They didn't steal a majority of their songs. The only difference between stealing and covering is proper crediting. If you are going to call Zeppelin unoriginal you have to say the same about any band that covers others' songs.
 
FelixDeCat

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,023
2,687
126
They used to play this on the radio back in the 80s. Good times. I like LZ more now as an adult than I did as a sub 20 year old. I can appreciate the lyrics more.

Anyway, this certaintly doesnt compare with Devo, but it doesnt have to. Its good for its category -rock.
 
B

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
grrl said:
Lots of bunched up underwear here. I didn't defend what they did or deny they stole songs, my point was calling them unoriginal doesn't work. They didn't steal a majority of their songs. The only difference between stealing and covering is proper crediting. If you are going to call Zeppelin unoriginal you have to say the same about any band that covers others' songs.
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And there was a LOT of white musicians who did this, hell the Beatles had a monster hit with the Isley brothers "Twist and shout"..
 
grrl

grrl

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
6,204
1
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Squisher said:
I saw them at the Lincoln Park theater in Lincoln Park, MI in 1972. I was 15 and walked from my house.
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Cool. I was too young at the time to go to concerts and didn't know about MC5 until high school.
 
TubeTote

TubeTote

Senior member
May 11, 2006
413
21
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grrl said:
Lots of bunched up underwear here. I didn't defend what they did or deny they stole songs, my point was calling them unoriginal doesn't work. They didn't steal a majority of their songs. The only difference between stealing and covering is proper crediting. If you are going to call Zeppelin unoriginal you have to say the same about any band that covers others' songs.
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100&#37; agreed.

I love LZ passionately, and I'm well aware of the music that influenced it. I heard a song not long ago from the 50s, a black artist who I am not familiar with (wish I could name him). It was the EXACT same riff as Whole Lotta Love, but done on an acoustic guitar. I was amazed, but not really disappointed. I'm certain you could do this with many of the British bands from that era, such as the Yardbirds or Bluesbreakers. This is simply the progression of music. I think a great (and more modern) example of this is Beck's Odelay. I hear Velvet Underground all over that album, especially in the vocal stylings. Notice the drum beat in 'New Pollution' is practically identical to the Beatles 'Tomorrow Never Knows'. I don't remember anybody saying that he was a copycat over it. Zep made some great f***ing music that has stood the test of time, and forever brought the music of their influences into the forefront. People who are really concerned or interested should dig deeper into the blues if they want to know who to credit for what Zep and so many others did. I do believe that many famous guitarists, including Page, give credit to the music that influenced them in interviews and also on stage. I write music, and even though no attempt is made to copy any of my heroes, somebody always seems to hear my influences. I don't feel that this makes me unoriginal, and if somebody ever asks I proudly admit who inspired me to learn to play.

EDIT: Something can't come from nothing. Even these old timey blues artists had their influences, and used each other's material. Just think of all the amazing music that has never even been recorded!
 
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Red Dawn

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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LikeLinus said:
Because they are thieves and liars. They flat out stole the music. Changing a riff here and there or in some cases almost nothing at all, then saying they totally wrote the whole thing?? You have no problem with that? They took credit for someone so the other person couldn't collect royalties from it. So not only were they stealing music, but they were also stealing money out of the hand of some poorer musicians that could have used the money.

No, there is a huge difference with Van Halen, Eric Clapton and Jimi Hendrix. Yes, they played and rewrote other musicians music, but they didn't STEAL it. They asked permission and gave credit where credit was due. LZ was trying to make themselves seem like great writers, when they really apparently were not. It's deception and flat out lame. There is a reason why the lost several court cases and had to settle out of court a bunch of times. They are thieves.

That said, I like LZ and always have, but it kind of sucks they were so unoriginal and stole so much. I'm cool with using other peoples music if you admit to it, but they denied it and lied. Even when Page was caught in some instances, he claims to have never heard the music.
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:rolleyes: Who gives a fuck.
 
C

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I'm a big fan of Zeppelin, but the OP's song is one of my least favorite of theirs. I appreciate his posting it, though.
 
B

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
Craig234 said:
And the Beatles credited the song to its authors.
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So did Zep wind up paying royalties over this?. Did they copy songs note for note or just some riffs and or lyrics?. I remember the joke when George Harrison got sued by the Chiffons, the later claiming "My sweet lord" was based off "He's so fine" and they actually won the case, sad..
 
P

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,158
59
91
grrl said:
Lots of bunched up underwear here. I didn't defend what they did or deny they stole songs, my point was calling them unoriginal doesn't work. They didn't steal a majority of their songs. The only difference between stealing and covering is proper crediting. If you are going to call Zeppelin unoriginal you have to say the same about any band that covers others' songs.
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Name another really big, influential band that had as many covers or ripoffs of songs, like the list just above the post I quoted.

Again, I love some Zep. But yes, I'd say they were not all THAT original....the rocked up the blues. That's about it. And we all liked it. Sure, they wrote a lot of material, too, but that's a LOT of covers/lifts/outright ripoffs to be considered "original".
 
Fritzo

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
sandorski said:
If LZ didn't credit that song, that's just not right. Wouldn't make me stop listening and enjoying them, but that's a pretty blatant Cover.
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The song is public domain-it's from 1927. Anyone can use it and record it without paying royalties. Count Basie used a version of it during the 40's big band era with no credit given either.
 
sandorski

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,788
6,347
126
Fritzo said:
The song is public domain-it's from 1927. Anyone can use it and record it without paying royalties. Count Basie used a version of it during the 40's big band era with no credit given either.
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Ahh, ok. Still would have been cool(er) to give Credit anyway.
 
grrl

grrl

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
6,204
1
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Pacfanweb said:
Name another really big, influential band that had as many covers or ripoffs of songs, like the list just above the post I quoted.

Again, I love some Zep. But yes, I'd say they were not all THAT original....the rocked up the blues. That's about it. And we all liked it. Sure, they wrote a lot of material, too, but that's a LOT of covers/lifts/outright ripoffs to be considered "original".
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Including Coda, there are 81 Tracks on 9 albums. 82 if you count Hey, Hey, What Can I Do. 83 with Traveling Riverside Blues, which is also a cover. So that's 12 covers (approximately) making 14.45% of their songs. By comparison the Stones have 24 albums containing 437 songs. One site says they have made 21 covers, equaling 4.8%.

So by comparison LZ's 15% sounds like an awful lot, but it's still far from a majority. As for whether they only "rocked up the blues," that's debatable, but you're welcome to your opinion. However, that claim contradicts you calling them "a really big, influential band." I don't see how they can be both unoriginal and really influential.

Also, since you seem so hung up on 'originality' and statistics, how do you rate one of the most influential singers in history, Elvis Presley, a man who wrote none of his own songs (but was credited with 9 co-writes so the Colonel could squeeze some extra money out of the songwriters)?

If you want to see the Stones list:

http://www.songfacts.com/category:songs_covered_by_the_rolling_stones.php
 
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