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Interesting News on the Ice Caps

ntdz

Diamond Member
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050516/full/050516-10.html

Basically, large portions of the ice caps are actually putting on ice. Eastern Anartica put on 45 billion tons of ice in the last 10 years.

When temperature grows (due to global warming), more water gets evaporated from the oceans and eventually gets put back to the ice caps. It's sort of a neat cycle. Other theories show that global warming won't be as bad as some think because it will lead to more cloud cover and less heat reaching the ground, thus limiting substantually the effects of CO2 emmissions.
 
Did you read the whole article?

The thickening of the eastern ice sheet should not be seen as a long-term protection against a rise in sea level, warns Vaughan. Glaciers in West Antarctica are accelerating, releasing more and more icebergs into the sea. And the Antarctic Peninsula, which stretches towards South America, now regularly hits temperatures above 0 °C in the summer, leading to direct melting of the ice there.

What's more, snowfall over East Antarctica will not continue to increase indefinitely in a warming world, Vaughan adds. Conversely, every extra degree of temperature rise will continue to accelerate glaciers and cause more melting on the western side of Antarctica, swelling the world's oceans further.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Did you read the whole article?

What a waste for both of you.

Republicans don't read and don't believe in Science to begin with so I don't understand why even bother trying to translate.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Did you read the whole article?

The thickening of the eastern ice sheet should not be seen as a long-term protection against a rise in sea level, warns Vaughan. Glaciers in West Antarctica are accelerating, releasing more and more icebergs into the sea. And the Antarctic Peninsula, which stretches towards South America, now regularly hits temperatures above 0 °C in the summer, leading to direct melting of the ice there.

What's more, snowfall over East Antarctica will not continue to increase indefinitely in a warming world, Vaughan adds. Conversely, every extra degree of temperature rise will continue to accelerate glaciers and cause more melting on the western side of Antarctica, swelling the world's oceans further.

OK, the west is melting. I accept that

East Antarctica thickened at an average rate of about 1.8 centimetres per year over the time period studied, the researchers discovered. The region comprises about 75% of Antarctica's total land area - but as its ice is thicker, it carries about 85% of the total ice volume. "It is the only large terrestrial ice body that is gaining mass rather than losing it," says Davis.

East Antartica is 85% of the total ice of anartica and it thickened TWICE as fast as western anartica melted which is 15% of total ice of anartica. That MUST mean that anartica is actually *gasp* growing, NOT melting.

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: conjur
Did you read the whole article?

What a waste for both of you.

Republicans don't read and don't believe in Science to begin with so I don't understand why even bother trying to translate.

Go away please, davey. If you don't have anything to of substance to post, then don't. Most of what you post is hogwash anyway, so I should be used to it by now though.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: conjur
Did you read the whole article?

The thickening of the eastern ice sheet should not be seen as a long-term protection against a rise in sea level, warns Vaughan. Glaciers in West Antarctica are accelerating, releasing more and more icebergs into the sea. And the Antarctic Peninsula, which stretches towards South America, now regularly hits temperatures above 0 °C in the summer, leading to direct melting of the ice there.

What's more, snowfall over East Antarctica will not continue to increase indefinitely in a warming world, Vaughan adds. Conversely, every extra degree of temperature rise will continue to accelerate glaciers and cause more melting on the western side of Antarctica, swelling the world's oceans further.
OK, the west is melting. I accept that

East Antarctica thickened at an average rate of about 1.8 centimetres per year over the time period studied, the researchers discovered. The region comprises about 75% of Antarctica's total land area - but as its ice is thicker, it carries about 85% of the total ice volume. "It is the only large terrestrial ice body that is gaining mass rather than losing it," says Davis.
East Antartica is 85% of the total ice of anartica and it thickened TWICE as fast as western anartica melted which is 15% of total ice of anartica. That MUST mean that anartica is actually *gasp* growing, NOT melting.

Again.
The thickening of the eastern ice sheet should not be seen as a long-term protection against a rise in sea level, warns Vaughan...snowfall over East Antarctica will not continue to increase indefinitely in a warming world
 
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: conjur
Did you read the whole article?

The thickening of the eastern ice sheet should not be seen as a long-term protection against a rise in sea level, warns Vaughan. Glaciers in West Antarctica are accelerating, releasing more and more icebergs into the sea. And the Antarctic Peninsula, which stretches towards South America, now regularly hits temperatures above 0 °C in the summer, leading to direct melting of the ice there.

What's more, snowfall over East Antarctica will not continue to increase indefinitely in a warming world, Vaughan adds. Conversely, every extra degree of temperature rise will continue to accelerate glaciers and cause more melting on the western side of Antarctica, swelling the world's oceans further.
OK, the west is melting. I accept that

East Antarctica thickened at an average rate of about 1.8 centimetres per year over the time period studied, the researchers discovered. The region comprises about 75% of Antarctica's total land area - but as its ice is thicker, it carries about 85% of the total ice volume. "It is the only large terrestrial ice body that is gaining mass rather than losing it," says Davis.
East Antartica is 85% of the total ice of anartica and it thickened TWICE as fast as western anartica melted which is 15% of total ice of anartica. That MUST mean that anartica is actually *gasp* growing, NOT melting.

Again.
The thickening of the eastern ice sheet should not be seen as a long-term protection against a rise in sea level, warns Vaughan...snowfall over East Antarctica will not continue to increase indefinitely in a warming world

Other factors (such as more cloud cover, amoung other things) will keep temperature rises in check.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
Other factors (such as more cloud cover, amoung other things) will keep temperature rises in check.

So this is your theory... where is your body of research? He doesn't seem to be saying that, anyway.
 
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: ntdz
Other factors (such as more cloud cover, amoung other things) will keep temperature rises in check.

So this is your theory... where is your body of research? He doesn't seem to be saying that, anyway.

It's not my theory, its another group of scientists' theory that I happen to believe.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: ntdz
Other factors (such as more cloud cover, amoung other things) will keep temperature rises in check.

So this is your theory... where is your body of research? He doesn't seem to be saying that, anyway.

It's not my theory, its another group of scientists' theory that I happen to believe.


So those scientists trump this one? Why did you bother to post this?
 
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: ntdz
Other factors (such as more cloud cover, amoung other things) will keep temperature rises in check.

So this is your theory... where is your body of research? He doesn't seem to be saying that, anyway.

It's not my theory, its another group of scientists' theory that I happen to believe.


So those scientists trump this one? Why did you bother to post this?

The part I was emphasizing was that the ice caps in anartica are growing, not shrinking, as many uninformed people believe in here.
 
Every glacier in Switzerland loses ice but hey, I guess that's ok, because some friggin' penguins have a lot more now? Sorry, but the regional-clima card can be played both ways.
 
Originally posted by: chcarnage
Every glacier in Switzerland loses ice but hey, I guess that's ok, because some friggin' penguins have a lot more now? Sorry, but the regional-clima card can be played both ways.
same story in iceland, and greenland
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: conjur
Did you read the whole article?

What a waste for both of you.

Republicans don't read and don't believe in Science to begin with so I don't understand why even bother trying to translate.

You continue to amaze me with your inanity and gross misrepresentations. Let me give you some personal stats:

Conservative Christian Republican who supports Bush but disagrees on many points

I read 12-16 technical newsletters/magazines every month - Network/DR/Business

I read 1-2 novels each month. SCi-Fi and historical fiction being of particular favorite

I have a post graduate degree - MBA.

I know of no one who fits your description.

A favorite book - Rick Atkinson "In the COmpany of Soldiers". Read it and get a first hand account of an embedded reporter during Gulf War II. He pulls no punches and tells it like it is.

When your done, post and we will debate. Otherwise, take your marbles and go home.
 
Amazon Deforestation Up 6% In 2004
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u...9/ap_on_sc/brazil_amazon_destruction_3
BRASILIA, Brazil - Deforestation in the
Amazon rain forest in 2004 was the second worst ever, figures released by the Brazilian government showed Wednesday. Satellite photos and data showed that ranchers, soybean farmers and loggers burned and cut down a near-record area of 10,088 square miles of rain forest in the 12 months ending in August 2004, the Brazilian Environmental Ministry said.

The destruction was nearly 6 percent higher than in the same period the year before, when 9,500 square miles were destroyed.

The deforestation hit record numbers in 1995, when the Amazon shrank a record 11,200 square miles, an area roughly the size of Belgium or the American state of Massachusetts.
Remember that rare hurrican off the coast of Brazil a year or so ago?

http://www.hurricaneville.com/brazilian_hurricane.html
Hurricanes occur in many places around the world. They usually go under the names of typhoons or cyclone, but they are all the same. Powerful tropical systems, hurricanes can be found in the North Atlantic, Eastern Pacific, South Pacific, Western Pacific, Bay of Bengal, and Indian Ocean.

Until recently, no such storms have been recorded in the South Atlantic because satellite technology has only been around since 1966, and hasn't detected it, and most importantly, sea surface temperatures are too cold to support development. However, on March 25th, 2004, a rare event occurred off the shores of Catarina province in Southeastern Brazil, and that was the development of a rather strong hurricane with 75 knot, or 85 mph winds, which is Category One of the Saffir-Simpson Scale in the Atlantic.

Brazil, which is a country that has prided itself on having nice weather, and no hurricanes for the most part, had a tough time accepting the fact that such a storm could exist in their part of the world. There was quite a bit of controversy between physicists and meteorologists in the country on whether or not the storm was a hurricane. Forecasters in the United States, including those at the National Hurricane Center strongly believe that indeed it was a hurricane.

It's thought the deforestation is leading to increased surface winds which can help bring about a storm like this And the increasing temps of the sea can help bring them about, too.
 
I love how we humans think in 100 years we can ruin this planet.

Mother earth will knock us back into the stone age at some point.

 
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: conjur
Did you read the whole article?

What a waste for both of you.

Republicans don't read and don't believe in Science to begin with so I don't understand why even bother trying to translate.

You continue to amaze me with your inanity and gross misrepresentations. Let me give you some personal stats:

Conservative Christian Republican who supports Bush but disagrees on many points

You are the exception rather than the rule.

I know a lot more church going Republicans that

a) don't understand Science to begin with so

b) they go along with Church and Political (Republican) doctrine instead

Whatever each says that is what they believe.

I've been in the South now since 1988 and have seen this style of "learning" grow from Florida, Georgia, North & South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi and now Louisiana.

It is the strongest here in Lousiana so far especially among those older than 55 and the young under 20. In other words the two biggest groups that attend Church usually at least twice a week Wednesdays, Saturdays and sometimes Sundays too.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
I love how we humans think in 100 years we can ruin this planet.

Mother earth will knock us back into the stone age at some point.

i think that's what we are trying to avoid 😛
 
No doubt there are many as you describe. No disagreement there. My issue was the general blanket statement of people such as myself. I disagree your characterization is a general truth; more a description of a small subset of a Conservative class.

Perhaps much like the Move.on leftists are a small subset of the liberal tradition yet becasue of their profile seem to distort the Democartaci party to an unwarranted degree.

To a point, far right fundamentalists and the most extrme conservatives also distort my party, but I disavow their actions. I would hope you;d do the same for those on the extrme far left like Moveon.org.

BTW, if you do like good military history that is easy to read, Rick Atkinson is superb. He also wrote "Crusade" - the first Gulf War and he is in the process of writing a trilogy on the Amercian army development during WWII. The first "Army at Dawn" came out a couple years ago. His second covering the Mediteranean campaigns comes out this year or next I think.

Highly recoemmended.
 
Originally posted by: dphantom
No doubt there are many as you describe. No disagreement there. My issue was the general blanket statement of people such as myself. I disagree your characterization is a general truth; more a description of a small subset of a Conservative class.

Perhaps much like the Move.on leftists are a small subset of the liberal tradition yet becasue of their profile seem to distort the Democartaci party to an unwarranted degree.

To a point, far right fundamentalists and the most extrme conservatives also distort my party, but I disavow their actions. I would hope you;d do the same for those on the extrme far left like Moveon.org.

BTW, if you do like good military history that is easy to read, Rick Atkinson is superb. He also wrote "Crusade" - the first Gulf War and he is in the process of writing a trilogy on the Amercian army development during WWII. The first "Army at Dawn" came out a couple years ago. His second covering the Mediteranean campaigns comes out this year or next I think.

Highly recoemmended.

Unfortunately it is the extremists from the South of the Republican Party running that Party, even you have to admit that.

You are from the North, I wouldn't expect you too feel or realize the depth of the extremism unless you have seen it first hand. It's classic out of sight out of mind.

I'm not famaliar with Moveon.org other than whatever Commericials they made and tried to sway last year was a complete failure compared to the successful brainwashing efforts of the Republican Smear Campaign of the Swift Boat operation.

They made it look like Kerry would be inept and being able to protect the Church going Republicans from Terrorist's while making Bush look to be a mighty Warrior of both Church and State. Worked flawlessly and still working I have to admit.

At this point put two different Candidates up there (as if it were now Nov 2008) and the same result would occur unless enough Church going Republicans up North have woken up to the deceit. I don't think so as I have seen signs that even Michigan is in danger of turning Red. Many West Coast States are being penetrated as well with either Washington or Oregon (I forget which one) talking about splitting the State into two States along Political and Religious lines. The Eastern part of the State still is Democrat but the interior rural areas are entrenched Republican and pissed off that the Cities on the Coast out vote them.

America is sort of at a Civil War already, just no blood shed yet but it is escalating.

Many factors coming together with any one of them could be the straw on the Camel's back to tip it from a behind the scenes bloodless War to an all out bloodshedding Civil War. The money factor will most likely be the catalyst as more people fall into desperation. The Murder and Killing rate is up over 200% here in New Orleans alone.

It has gone from an average of two killings a day to 5 killings a day here now. Everybody is pointing fingers at each other as to the cause. The Mayor is blaming the Judges for letting criminals out (Revolving Door Policy) and organizing a March to the Courthouse steps. What this is looking to accomplish I have no idea.

So is the answer to put all folks in Poverty in Jail? Turn America into a Penal Colony???

Perhaps, it worked for Australia. We'll soon find out it appears.
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dphantom
No doubt there are many as you describe. No disagreement there. My issue was the general blanket statement of people such as myself. I disagree your characterization is a general truth; more a description of a small subset of a Conservative class.

Perhaps much like the Move.on leftists are a small subset of the liberal tradition yet becasue of their profile seem to distort the Democartaci party to an unwarranted degree.

To a point, far right fundamentalists and the most extrme conservatives also distort my party, but I disavow their actions. I would hope you;d do the same for those on the extrme far left like Moveon.org.

BTW, if you do like good military history that is easy to read, Rick Atkinson is superb. He also wrote "Crusade" - the first Gulf War and he is in the process of writing a trilogy on the Amercian army development during WWII. The first "Army at Dawn" came out a couple years ago. His second covering the Mediteranean campaigns comes out this year or next I think.

Highly recoemmended.

Unfortunately it is the extremists from the South of the Republican Party running that Party, even you have to admit that.

You are from the North, I wouldn't expect you too feel or realize the depth of the extremism unless you have seen it first hand. It's classic out of sight out of mind.

I'm not famaliar with Moveon.org other than whatever Commericials they made and tried to sway last year was a complete failure compared to the successful brainwashing efforts of the Republican Smear Campaign of the Swift Boat operation.

They made it look like Kerry would be inept and being able to protect the Church going Republicans from Terrorist's while making Bush look to be a mighty Warrior of both Church and State. Worked flawlessly and still working I have to admit.

At this point put two different Candidates up there (as if it were now Nov 2008) and the same result would occur unless enough Church going Republicans up North have woken up to the deceit. I don't think so as I have seen signs that even Michigan is in danger of turning Red. Many West Coast States are being penetrated as well with either Washington or Oregon (I forget which one) talking about splitting the State into two States along Political and Religious lines. The Eastern part of the State still is Democrat but the interior rural areas are entrenched Republican and pissed off that the Cities on the Coast out vote them.

America is sort of at a Civil War already, just no blood shed yet but it is escalating.

Many factors coming together with any one of them could be the straw on the Camel's back to tip it from a behind the scenes bloodless War to an all out bloodshedding Civil War. The money factor will most likely be the catalyst as more people fall into desperation. The Murder and Killing rate is up over 200% here in New Orleans alone.

It has gone from an average of two killings a day to 5 killings a day here now. Everybody is pointing fingers at each other as to the cause. The Mayor is blaming the Judges for letting criminals out (Revolving Door Policy) and organizing a March to the Courthouse steps. What this is looking to accomplish I have no idea.

So is the answer to put all folks in Poverty in Jail? Turn America into a Penal Colony???

Perhaps, it worked for Australia. We'll soon find out it appears.

I did spend 7 years in the South (AR/AL) so am familiar with the culture. I left AL in late 1994.

I'm not so worried as you appear to be. The right said the same types of things about Clinton and we survived him. I think we'll survive Bush. I have faith this country has a powrful reservoir of common sense and the extremists on both sides will be discounted.

Not sure I categorize Bush or his administration as extremists if that is what you mean. From a fiscal standpoint for traditional Conservatives, he has been a disaster. The South and portions of the Midwest are conservative, the infamous blue/red county map highlights that.


Hadn;t heard about teh WA/OR split discussion. I doubt it would happen. Back in the late 60's whenI was growing up, the Northern part of Michigan felt teh same way and wanted to split off from the rest of the State. Nothing really serious about it, just grumblibgs.

Too bad about New Orleans. Maybe you should enlist Rudy G to clean up the mess. He did great in NYC. 😉
 
Originally posted by: dphantom
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: dphantom
No doubt there are many as you describe. No disagreement there. My issue was the general blanket statement of people such as myself. I disagree your characterization is a general truth; more a description of a small subset of a Conservative class.

Perhaps much like the Move.on leftists are a small subset of the liberal tradition yet becasue of their profile seem to distort the Democartaci party to an unwarranted degree.

To a point, far right fundamentalists and the most extrme conservatives also distort my party, but I disavow their actions. I would hope you;d do the same for those on the extrme far left like Moveon.org.

BTW, if you do like good military history that is easy to read, Rick Atkinson is superb. He also wrote "Crusade" - the first Gulf War and he is in the process of writing a trilogy on the Amercian army development during WWII. The first "Army at Dawn" came out a couple years ago. His second covering the Mediteranean campaigns comes out this year or next I think.

Highly recoemmended.

Unfortunately it is the extremists from the South of the Republican Party running that Party, even you have to admit that.

You are from the North, I wouldn't expect you too feel or realize the depth of the extremism unless you have seen it first hand. It's classic out of sight out of mind.

I'm not famaliar with Moveon.org other than whatever Commericials they made and tried to sway last year was a complete failure compared to the successful brainwashing efforts of the Republican Smear Campaign of the Swift Boat operation.

They made it look like Kerry would be inept and being able to protect the Church going Republicans from Terrorist's while making Bush look to be a mighty Warrior of both Church and State. Worked flawlessly and still working I have to admit.

At this point put two different Candidates up there (as if it were now Nov 2008) and the same result would occur unless enough Church going Republicans up North have woken up to the deceit. I don't think so as I have seen signs that even Michigan is in danger of turning Red. Many West Coast States are being penetrated as well with either Washington or Oregon (I forget which one) talking about splitting the State into two States along Political and Religious lines. The Eastern part of the State still is Democrat but the interior rural areas are entrenched Republican and pissed off that the Cities on the Coast out vote them.

America is sort of at a Civil War already, just no blood shed yet but it is escalating.

Many factors coming together with any one of them could be the straw on the Camel's back to tip it from a behind the scenes bloodless War to an all out bloodshedding Civil War. The money factor will most likely be the catalyst as more people fall into desperation. The Murder and Killing rate is up over 200% here in New Orleans alone.

It has gone from an average of two killings a day to 5 killings a day here now. Everybody is pointing fingers at each other as to the cause. The Mayor is blaming the Judges for letting criminals out (Revolving Door Policy) and organizing a March to the Courthouse steps. What this is looking to accomplish I have no idea.

So is the answer to put all folks in Poverty in Jail? Turn America into a Penal Colony???

Perhaps, it worked for Australia. We'll soon find out it appears.

I did spend 7 years in the South (AR/AL) so am familiar with the culture. I left AL in late 1994.

I'm not so worried as you appear to be. The right said the same types of things about Clinton and we survived him. I think we'll survive Bush. I have faith this country has a powrful reservoir of common sense and the extremists on both sides will be discounted.

Not sure I categorize Bush or his administration as extremists if that is what you mean. From a fiscal standpoint for traditional Conservatives, he has been a disaster. The South and portions of the Midwest are conservative, the infamous blue/red county map highlights that.


Hadn;t heard about teh WA/OR split discussion. I doubt it would happen. Back in the late 60's whenI was growing up, the Northern part of Michigan felt teh same way and wanted to split off from the rest of the State. Nothing really serious about it, just grumblibgs.

Too bad about New Orleans. Maybe you should enlist Rudy G to clean up the mess. He did great in NYC. 😉

Good point, I don't know if Mayor Nagin is Democrat or Republican.

Rudy cleaned up blighted Times Square. There is no particular area to clean up in New Orleans. The NYC equalvalent of what is happening is that there is mass killings going on in the burroughs while the City itself (Business district) is pretty quiet. They already bulldozed delapitated Housing projects, perhaps that is the problem, that is no one centralized zone or area to keep the killers penned in.

 
Housing projects of the 60's or so were the worst disaster to befall inner city poor and keep them confined inpoverty anyone could come up with. They were and are breeding grounds for crime, drugs, illeteracy etc.. And I'm not talking "black", "hispanic" or any other race/ethnic group, just teh concept of these projects had severe unintended consequences.

I stay out of Detroit if at all possible for the same reasons. The West/North part of Michigan is great country with relatively low crime except for meth labs popping up all over.
 
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