interesting info on Android GUI GPU acceleration

[runawayprisoner]

maybe it just DOES take that much manpower to make a good mobile OS....

And I believe that it does. At least for current mobile OSes. Take it from HP, and RIM.

 

[poofyhairguy]

maybe it just DOES take that much manpower to make a good mobile OS....

It takes real knowledge of OSes.

iOS's lack of problems is because of OSX. PowerPC users like myself suffered through early versions of OSX to allow Apple to gain experience with OSes that was directly used in iOS.

Meanwhile MS has that entire Windows empire to lean on for experience with OS's GUIs.

Meanwhile, Android only levergages the core parts of Linux like its kernel. That means it is stable, but that does nothing for the interface. Because they didn't use X (for good reasons) they basically started from scratch on the GUI and it shows.

Actually I think they are doing ok. Hardware is increasing at a rate that improving the quality of their code is basically not worth it. Cost/benefit analysis.

 

[Medu]

It takes real knowledge of OSes.

iOS's lack of problems is because of OSX. PowerPC users like myself suffered through early versions of OSX to allow Apple to gain experience with OSes that was directly used in iOS.

Meanwhile MS has that entire Windows empire to lean on for experience with OS's GUIs.

Meanwhile, Android only levergages the core parts of Linux like its kernel. That means it is stable, but that does nothing for the interface. Because they didn't use X (for good reasons) they basically started from scratch on the GUI and it shows.

Actually I think they are doing ok. Hardware is increasing at a rate that improving the quality of their code is basically not worth it. Cost/benefit analysis.

A lot has been down to priorities. Apple/MS got their GUI working well first and constantly added features(Mango added A LOT, and iOS5 added features that have been in Android for years) while Google had a feature rich OS that lacked some polish. WP7 still lacks support for 4G and NFC...

 

[zsdersw]

I have to say... after switching to a Samsung Infuse from my Evo and putting the Illuminance 2.1 ROM on it... I have absolutely NO lag anywhere in the OS.

Stock Froyo (and even the recently released Gingerbread update) was quite laggy on the Infuse.

 

[MrX8503]

Wowing the other platforms users goes both ways, see my previous post. I know I could easily impress plenty of iPhone users with my Galaxy S2's media playback ability, the stock player will easily handle any HD video you throw at it.

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that as I think its leading the thread astray. The point is smooth UI or no smooth UI, the majority of Android users either don't know the difference or don't notice it. However, it doesn't dismiss that the lag is indeed there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones#2011
People vote with their dollars, and according to the list of top 10 best selling phones of 2011, about 127million high end Android devices were sold, vs 87 million iphone 4's + iphone 3GS's. So the "other 99 free in a cereal box" android phones may or may not exist but they don't change the picture at all.

It looks like you were trying to make it out like android device activations are only high because of massive quantities on the low end, but the wikipedia figures disprove that.

There are promotions, discounts, buy 1 get 1, etc for even high end Android devices. There isn't such a thing for an iPhone4S. To get a deal with an iPhone, you'd have to buy a non iPhone4S.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

They dont need to rewrite the UI. Andrew Munns statements have been proven wrong by both Android AND iOS developers. ICS has solved some of the lag issues and future updates will solve more. However the reason Dianne cant flat out say the lag WILL be fixed is found in her last paragraph. There are some things the Android dev team cant control

Android allows you to replace the legacy apps. If you download a third party SMS app with a badly written code, it will still lag no matter what.

My Iphone 4 lagged sometimes, Apple were just clever enough to hide it with some nice animations. When i jailbroke it and put in Winterboard and Quick Reply SMS and other add ons, i noticed a clear difference in speed and for the first time saw force reboots on an iOS device. My point is that it will be much harder to erase the lag on an Android device because of the freedom it gives the user. The only point in rewriting the UI would be to install the same level of control Apple has

Also Android is leading in marketshare in Europe/Asia and there are no discount deals there. You buy the phone unlocked or you put a small downpayement and and pay for the phone each month alongside your subscription. I got both my Iphone 4 and my S2 the same way. Its clear that the majority of users dont care about lag, fragmentation or getting latest updates, most dont even know there is an update, they just use the phone for sms and calling and maybe surf sometimes

What Google does need to do though is throw out better SDKs, Apples tools are so much better that its not even funny. Not only does a developer earn less money on Googles appstore but they also have to do more work to make the same app work on Android devices. Its vital that Google allows other forms of payment on the market and help out the developers with better SDKs if they want to see more growth and sales on apps

 

[MrX8503]

My Iphone 4 lagged sometimes, Apple were just clever enough to hide it with some nice animations.

I don't believe that is true because if you think about it animations require even more processing power. Android would lag horribly if it included as many animations/transitions as iOS. Anandtech stated in a review of the Droid Incredible I believe where you could turn off animations in Sense so that it would perform better.

In other words, Google couldn't hide their speed deficit with animations even if they wanted to. Animations would make it worse for them.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

I don't believe that is true because if you think about it animations require even more processing power. Android would lag horribly if it included as many animations/transitions as iOS. Anandtech stated in a review of the Droid Incredible I believe where you could turn off animations in Sense so that it would perform better.

In other words, Google couldn't hide their speed deficit with animations even if they wanted to. Animations would make it worse for them.

Thats because Sense is not made by Google. Its HTCs skin running on top of Android wich is why it requires more juice = slower

Also you misunderstood me. I never said thats what Google should do. I said thats how Apple solved their lag issues

 

[zsdersw]

Android would lag horribly if it included as many animations/transitions as iOS.

Not necessarily. Android can have every bit as many animations/transitions as iOS and not lag at all. I know this because I have animations for everything on my Infuse (with a custom ROM), including some that I've never seen on iOS.

 

[MrX8503]

Thats because Sense is not made by Google. Its HTCs skin running on top of Android wich is why it requires more juice = slower

Also you misunderstood me. I never said thats what Google should do. I said thats how Apple solved their lag issues

Thats true, but then again Google doesn't add animations AFAIK. I may have misunderstood you, but I think you misunderstood me.

Animations would make things slower, meaning I don't think Apple added them to hide lag as it would create more lag. They added animations to make it "pretty". Overall we don't know for sure why Apple added animations, but I'm leaning more towards the "pretty" theory. If you look at Mac OSX, especially Lion, the animations are everywhere. Then if you look at Apple's insistent requirement of powerful GPUs in their MBP, it makes sense.

Not necessarily. Android can have every bit as many animations/transitions as iOS and not lag at all. I know this because I have animations for everything on my Infuse (with a custom ROM), including some that I've never seen on iOS.

As in you're not stock

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

But im pretty sure those animations DON'T require a heavy GPU. The MBPs work fine on the integrated graphics remember?

You don't *need* an insane GPU to run these UI animations. The NExus One should do it fine (look at WP7 phones). All this talk about the Nexus sucking against the SGS2 in graphics is really just a gaming issue. It's just like talking about BF3 framerates. People can talk NV and ATI all they want but any of those cards including worse ones will run Windows Aero just fine.

I think Apple did include them to have some sort of "prettiness" and to hide the lag. But even with lag hiding, there's not much lag to hide to begin with. You can hide the lag all you want in Android, but even when lists are stuttery to scroll through, no animation will save you then.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Eh, I was pointing that out (the GPU power needed isn't high) already but got jumped by the folks in this thread. They're not prepared to listen and be rational about it.

I have at least three apps that can run at the same time on my phone that are GPU accelerated and they certainly work fine.


Besides, if you read the article, one of the points is how a listview object is populated. This isn't something GPU acceleration in itself can help. The problem is that while the system is filling the list, it's hard to scroll it smoothly. Even in iOS, if the way a list is used isn't efficient, there could be choppiness too. Android's method seems to be less efficient in the first place so the problem is magnified.

 

[MrX8503]

But im pretty sure those animations DON'T require a heavy GPU. The MBPs work fine on the integrated graphics remember?

Remember that Apple only adopted integrated graphics after Sandy Bridge, which has the Intel HD 3000. This integrated GPU was no slouch. Before Sandy Bridge, all MBPs had discrete cards and Apple went as far as to hold the MBP 13 back with a Core 2 Duo in order to keep the NVIDIA GPU while the 15"/17" enjoyed the new Core i Series.

The GPU is important and has always been important to Apple because of their OS requiring some level of GPU horsepower. It may not require "insane" GPU power, but it's enough power for Apple to stress about it. This is also evident in the A4 and A5 GPU, which has been best in class among smartphones upon release.

Because of those reasons, I find it hard to believe that Apple created animations to hide lag. If anything animations causes more lag because of the extra processes.

 

[shortylickens]

And I believe that it does. At least for current mobile OSes. Take it from HP, and RIM.

They got the manpower. They didnt know how to focus, moved too late and couldnt catch up.
Actually it wasnt really HP, it was Palm that really screwed up. HP just tried to save a sinking ship and couldnt.

 

[runawayprisoner]

I think Apple did include them to have some sort of "prettiness" and to hide the lag. But even with lag hiding, there's not much lag to hide to begin with. You can hide the lag all you want in Android, but even when lists are stuttery to scroll through, no animation will save you then.

Actually, Apple did include most of the animations to make it look more "seamless".

You can jailbreak iOS and disable all transition animations, and on A4 devices and up, it'll make things pop out immediately. On the iPad 2, it's instant for everything.

 

[zsdersw]

As in you're not stock

You didn't say "stock" was a criteria for your statement.. you just made generalizations about Android.

 

[MrX8503]

You didn't say "stock" was a criteria for your statement.. you just made generalizations about Android.

If you're trying to make an unbias comparison, I shouldn't have to state it. Who compares stock vs custom? I don't know of any reviewer that does such a thing, unless they were reviewing the custom rom itself. If Car and Driver were comparing the Viper vs Vette, they wouldn't use a souped up Vette from Lingenfelter.

 

[zsdersw]

If you're trying to make an unbias comparison, I shouldn't have to state it. Who compares stock vs custom? I don't know of any reviewer that does such a thing, unless they were reviewing the custom rom itself. If Car and Driver were comparing the Viper vs Vette, they wouldn't use a souped up Vette from Lingenfelter.

Who makes generalizations about Android while claiming to be unbiased? You do.

If Car and Driver were making an unbiased comparison between the Viper to the Vette they would mention the fact that both can be souped up.

You said: "Android would lag horribly if it included as many animations/transitions as iOS.". That is a generalization. To which I replied, correctly, with "not necessarily"... i.e, not in all circumstances.

 

[MrX8503]

Yeah, they would "mention" it, but they wouldn't actually "drive" stock vs modified in a comparison test. Who would do that?

What you're saying is custom vs stock when the blogpost is about GPU acceleration on stock Android. My opinion is that Android would lag horribly because it can't even be lag free without animations. Again this is talking about stock Android.

When you commented that its not laggy with animations running a custom rom, I was making a disclaimer that you're not running stock.

 

[zsdersw]

Yeah, they would "mention" it, but they wouldn't actually "drive" stock vs modified in a comparison test. Who would do that?

What you're saying is custom vs stock when the blogpost is about GPU acceleration on stock Android. My opinion is that Android would lag horribly because it can't even be lag free without animations. Again this is talking about stock Android.

When you commented that its not laggy with animations running a custom rom, I was making a disclaimer that you're not running stock.

Then you should've mentioned "stock" when you stated that opinion.