Interesting article on gamers harassing developers

[CuriousMike]

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/46...rassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

 

[surfsatwerk]

QQ

 

[darkewaffle]

"It's important to listen to fans about what's important to them, but it's equally important to listen to people who are not currently gamers about why they aren't playing. Hardcore gamers want a product that is made specifically for them and is actively unfriendly to anyone new. They will beg and bully to get this product and then praise and wax nostalgic over any game that lives up to their standards even if the company that made it went bankrupt. They don't care about keeping companies in business or artists employed. Their only job as fans is to say what pleases them, and it would be foolish to expect them to think beyond that. But to cater to those desires without thinking about how to bring new audiences in and make them comfortable will ultimately result in a stagnant and money-losing industry.

"I could go on and on about this, but I'm just going to consider one example: the word 'noob.' If you decide to take up almost any other hobby in the world, you can find beginning classes teaching you how to do it. If you want to knit, you can go to a yarn store and meet fellow knitters who will help you get the basics. If you want to play basketball, you can join a rec center or community league at a beginner level. And generally, the people already involved in those hobbies are thrilled to have someone with whom they can share their passion. But if you want to get started as a gamer, you get told, 'go home noob,' because people in this hobby hate newcomers so much they turned the word itself into an insult. How are we supposed to thrive as an industry if we are actively hostile to growing our audience?"

I really liked this bit. Good read.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Too a point, yes, it makes sense. But here is the problem as a gamer that I have with the argument put in there, and that is that games have become a competitive "sport", and especially with the majority of current games out there being "team" games. In real life, you won't see a person who doesn't even know the rules of the game being the quarterback in an NFL game, or the starting pitcher in a MLB game. Yet, in these video games, that happens all the time, and if the person doesn't know what to do, of course their team will be yelling and screaming at them, just like the coaches and fans would be doing at a NFL game or MLB game.

The solution to this problem is to have online gameplay split up such that there is a place for beginners to play which doesn't put them in with the "pros" excepting where there "pro" decides he wants to play with the new people and teach them how to play (hopefully with a way such that there is a mechanic which keeps the "pros" from just picking on the new players). Unfortunately, that costs extra money to do...

I know some games have had solutions to this problem. In fact I remember way back in 1998 when Bungie released "Myth: The Fallen Lords", they had a ranking and matching system built into the online play that separated players based on their skill and wouldn't match new players/poor players against good players automatically (they had to be pulled in by another player in the pre-match screen or have the person who created the pre-match screen open it up to all ranks of players).

 

[smackababy]

Too a point, yes, it makes sense. But here is the problem as a gamer that I have with the argument put in there, and that is that games have become a competitive "sport", and especially with the majority of current games out there being "team" games. In real life, you won't see a person who doesn't even know the rules of the game being the quarterback in an NFL game, or the starting pitcher in a MLB game. Yet, in these video games, that happens all the time, and if the person doesn't know what to do, of course their team will be yelling and screaming at them, just like the coaches and fans would be doing at a NFL game or MLB game.

Except, those yelling in games aren't doing so at a high level, such as the NFL or the MLB. Compare it to something realistic, such as rec leagues. Sure, there are a few who are punks and try to relive their wanna be glory days, but the vast majority of recreational sports leagues will offer help, coaching, suggestions, and training for people to get better; because it is more fun when everyone is better. Gamers are the biggest bunch of whiners on the planet.

The solution to this problem is to have online gameplay split up such that there is a place for beginners to play which doesn't put them in with the "pros" excepting where there "pro" decides he wants to play with the new people and teach them how to play (hopefully with a way such that there is a mechanic which keeps the "pros" from just picking on the new players). Unfortunately, that costs extra money to do...

No, gamers need to understand they are not "pros". In fact, the majority of the people who chastise others for being bad, are themselves bad. Or, such as in Dota and HoN, the new players are abrasive to criticism because they already have that "I'm a pro" attitude, despite not knowing the basic mechanics of the game.

Developers shouldn't listen to gamers, because most of them are idiots.

 

[shortylickens]

Vote with your dollars, otherwise leave it alone.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Except, those yelling in games aren't doing so at a high level, such as the NFL or the MLB. Compare it to something realistic, such as rec leagues. Sure, there are a few who are punks and try to relive their wanna be glory days, but the vast majority of recreational sports leagues will offer help, coaching, suggestions, and training for people to get better; because it is more fun when everyone is better. Gamers are the biggest bunch of whiners on the planet.

My point is, there IS NO REC LEAGUE! That is exactly what IS NEEDED. There is only one league in most online games, and effectively it is the "pro" league, except that you have people who have never played the game before being tossed right in with the pros on day one. There NEEDS to be a REC LEAGUE as well as the pro league.

 

[KaOTiK]

It has been out of hand for awhile. It really is sad, especially since in a lot of cases, the reasons people are so pissed probably weren't even the developers decision to start with, but their publisher instead.

 

[Falafil]

My point is, there IS NO REC LEAGUE! That is exactly what IS NEEDED. There is only one league in most online games, and effectively it is the "pro" league, except that you have people who have never played the game before being tossed right in with the pros on day one. There NEEDS to be a REC LEAGUE as well as the pro league.

Right on!
Now leave our game and go learn how to play you fucking noob!

 

[sweenish]

I hate "gamers."

Some of the most entitled, least informed people I have come across. Not to mention hateful, vile, disgusting, etc.

I only go online if I'm playing with friends, everyone outside my party is muted, etc. The industry can't grow up until the "gamers" do.

Obviously not everyone who games is like this, but these disgustingly ignorant people are so loud that they can't be ignored.

 

[smackababy]

My point is, there IS NO REC LEAGUE! That is exactly what IS NEEDED. There is only one league in most online games, and effectively it is the "pro" league, except that you have people who have never played the game before being tossed right in with the pros on day one. There NEEDS to be a REC LEAGUE as well as the pro league.

Except, that is the rec league. Gamers just don't want to accept they are not pros. The "pro" leagues exist already; 99.9% of just aren't good enough to make them. The MLGs, EVOs, Dreamhacks, TI4s, etc are there the professional gamers go. The rest of us are effectively amateurs playing the in rec leagues. Public games, even matchmaking, are for the every man.

Sadly, gamers are far to self absorbed in their own imaginary eliteness to accept this.

 

[Texashiker]

Children, especially teenagers, are hateful creatures. The internet makes it easy for the little demons to spread their filth.

Adults have something to lose - job, criminal record, marriage,,,,,.

Kids know their record will be wiped clean when they turn 18.

 

[Midwayman]

The problem with noobs isn't really instruction. There are normally plenty of how to videos out on any popular game should they really want to learn. There are single player modes and online practice arenas where one can try out new things until they get the hang of it. The trouble is a lot of these players just want to jump right in without any prep, fail spectacularly, and take their team down with them.

Unfortunately we can't rely on new players to acquire their skills in an appropriate venue, so we really do need some sort of skill based matching mechanism to sort this stuff out.

Even if the average gamer is only a high school quarterback vs the NFL they are still way way way better than someone who has never even played. Its actually really hard to start team sports as an adult too. There was never hockey where I grew up, and after college I moved and wanted to give it a try. All the rec leagues were people who were ex-highschool players. All the beginner classes were listed for kids. No where to fit in as an adult with zero experience.

 

[smackababy]

The problem with noobs isn't really instruction. There are normally plenty of how to videos out on any popular game should they really want to learn. There are single player modes and online practice arenas where one can try out new things until they get the hang of it. The trouble is a lot of these players just want to jump right in without any prep, fail spectacularly, and take their team down with them.

Unfortunately we can't rely on new players to acquire their skills in an appropriate venue, so we really do need some sort of skill based matching mechanism to sort this stuff out.

We hope developers force them to do lengthy tutorials to learn the basics. But, that will never happen.

Even if the average gamer is only a high school quarterback vs the NFL they are still way way way better than someone who has never even played. Its actually really hard to start team sports as an adult too. There was never hockey where I grew up, and after college I moved and wanted to give it a try. All the rec leagues were people who were ex-highschool players. All the beginner classes were listed for kids. No where to fit in as an adult with zero experience.

Every rec sport league I've played in has had those guys who just weren't very good or new. The only people anyone had a problem with were those that didn't try or were former high school "stars" and thought they were professionals. The funny thing is, they usually weren't even above average, but since the pool of players and their skills were so low, they "shined" and could showboat. Quite often someone who was helpful and quiet ended up putting them in their place. After that "embarrassment" they generally don't show up anymore.

 

[PowerYoga]

Kids know their record will be wiped clean when they turn 18.

No they don't. They're just little shits.

 

[Childs]

Its more of an general Internet/anonymity issue than gamer issue. You can probably find the same kinds of people on sports or soap opera forums.

 

[antisober]

People need to get a grip on reality. They're just **removed** video games for crying out loud. And parents need to teach their kids how to be a good sport instead of being a **removed**. The challenge is what makes you better. You can't just spew vulgarities and racial slurs just because you're 1-12 in COD smh.



Please refrain from spewing vulgarities outside of the social forums.

Anandtech Moderator
KeithTalent

 

[PowerYoga]

good players are the ones that talk a lot of smack. It's not the bad players that are raging, although they probably do it every so often.

 

[antisober]

good players are the ones that talk a lot of smack. It's not the bad players that are raging, although they probably do it every so often.

While this is true, in my experience the "good" players tend to have their mics off.

 

[cmdrdredd]

There was a similar article I saw on another site regarding the Fighting Game Community and how they are unwelcoming elitists toward new players yet on the other hand complain about how the community never grows and there's no new players. I think Gamers in general need to learn that they can't have everything they want and need to be more understanding of the other side.

 

[BladeVenom]

Developers shouldn't listen to gamers, because most of them are idiots.

That's a stupid attitude. Developers who ignore gamers, end up releasing broken games.

 

[cmdrdredd]

That's a stupid attitude. Developers who ignore gamers, end up releasing broken games.

Actually the ones who just focus on a game with their vision, a game they would enjoy playing, potentially release the best games. The game doesn't get muddied. See a developer needs to approach it from the perspective of themselves being a gamer. When they enjoy the game there is a good chance someone else will too.

 

[BladeVenom]

Yet every bad game I've paid attention to, the developers ignored the advice of the gamers (beta testers).

 

[CuriousMike]

Realistically, when a game is at beta, there is very little that the developers can do other than balancing.

"Hay, add this completely random new feature" isn't going to happen.

However, reporting bugs for free is always appreciated!

 

[cmdrdredd]

Realistically, when a game is at beta, there is very little that the developers can do other than balancing.

"Hay, add this completely random new feature" isn't going to happen.

However, reporting bugs for free is always appreciated!

This is true. By the time it's in beta most of the major parts of the code are set. You can optimize performance or balance issues for online, but not a whole lot of major rewrites.