Interesting article: inside look at weapons search team

[Bowfinger]

I thought many of you would find this article interesting. A Washington Post reporter spent a week with Site Survey Team 3, one of four teams assembled in Iraq to examine potential WMD sites. The result is an extensive inside look into what these guys face.

Odyssey of Frustration

BAGHDAD -- For once the team found a building intact.

The low stucco structure, one of several walled off from the street, was the 17th target of the war for Army Lt. Col. Charles Allison and the special weapons hunters under his command. Heavy crossbars sealed the doors. That, at least, was encouraging. There would not have been much left to lock if looters got here first.

U.S. intelligence called this place "Possible SSO Facility Al Hayat," after the Special Security Organization of President Saddam Hussein. It ranked No. 26 on a U.S. Central Command priority search list. Allison's team pulled up in six Humvees, not long before noon on May 1, to scout for biological and chemical arms.

"Go get the breach kit," ordered Army Maj. Kenneth Deal, second in command. A soldier returned with bolt cutters, a crowbar and a sledgehammer. Deal carried a digital camera. Army Sgt. 1st Class Will T. Smith Jr. and Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Shawn Anderson wielded chemical sensors that looked like oversized power drills.

Smashing padlocks and deadbolts, the men checked for booby traps as they felt their way by flashlight from room to room. They reached a murky stone passage, smelling of mold. Cement covered its windows. Steel doors, a dull orange, lined the hall.

Interrogation cells? Munitions vaults?

[ ... ]

It was buried in another thread. Thanks to CaptnKirk for posting it.

 

[bolinger]

More like "Odyssey of Futility".

I think the Bush administration should quit giving these search teams the runaround and plant the WMD already.

 

[sandorski]

uh huh

 

[Alistar7]

pretty sad they have still only checked just over 100 out of 2000+ sites, they need to throw way more people at this and speed things up.

 

[43st]

Give the inspectors more time! You can't claim to start a war... err I mean find weapons of mass destruction without giving the inspectors more time.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Thera
Give the inspectors more time! You can't claim to start a war... err I mean find weapons of mass destruction without giving the inspectors more time.

While I can accept the fact those mobile labs could quickly produce mass quantities of anthrax and botulism, Iraq's favorite concoctions, I want more than that. I understand they did have time as the force was amassed and the UN cluttered around to destroy much of everything, but that evidence should be fresh as well.

I don't doubt they maintained stockpiles that were well hidden and were ready for immdeiate use, as well as the materials and equipment to ramp up mass production quickly and secretly as was explicitly stated by the US govt. But the stuff did not just disappear either, even their destruction should be traceable and conclusive for the most part.

just over 100 sites searched so far out of 2,000+, that's not cutting it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Always have to keep your guard up. Things were tougher for others though. I do not envy those who had to ferret out the Japanese on island strongholds. There were some "interesting" tunnels and complexes in Vietnam too. Part of the job, but I am sure everyone in these situations wants a cold one afterwards, if he can get it.

 

[Alistar7]

There is no organized, well armed fighting force defending anything now, there is not the elaborate series of tunnels, hospitals, bunkers, etc. that were in Vietnam.

They have personnel, documents, and freedom to inspect anything now. The fact they have inspected so few is baffling, did the administration not think they were under scrutiny already and were pressed to produce quickly? I doubt that, yet the effort so far has been lacking. I understand they diverted 3 of the 4 teams and are trying to put more in place, but thousands of those people should have been right behind the troops from day 1.

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Thera
Give the inspectors more time! You can't claim to start a war... err I mean find weapons of mass destruction without giving the inspectors more time.

While I can accept the fact those mobile labs could quickly produce mass quantities of anthrax and botulism, Iraq's favorite concoctions, I want more than that. I understand they did have time as the force was amassed and the UN cluttered around to destroy much of everything, but that evidence should be fresh as well.

I don't doubt they maintained stockpiles that were well hidden and were ready for immdeiate use, as well as the materials and equipment to ramp up mass production quickly and secretly as was explicitly stated by the US govt. But the stuff did not just disappear either, even their destruction should be traceable and conclusive for the most part.

just over 100 sites searched so far out of 2,000+, that's not cutting it.

My only problem with the US "Intelligence" is that they had it several months ago when they were making the hard sell. They had proof and now they can't even find the proof?!?!

I'm also not surprised by the 100/2000+ reference. That's why it odd that they won't allow the UN inspectors join the US inspectors in Iraq. If I were Bush I'd invite every country to come help in the search. They'd be doing our job and footing the bill. A win/win situation.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
There is no organized, well armed fighting force defending anything now, there is not the elaborate series of tunnels, hospitals, bunkers, etc. that were in Vietnam.

They have personnel, documents, and freedom to inspect anything now. The fact they have inspected so few is baffling, did the administration not think they were under scrutiny already and were pressed to produce quickly? I doubt that, yet the effort so far has been lacking. I understand they diverted 3 of the 4 teams and are trying to put more in place, but thousands of those people should have been right behind the troops from day 1.

You understand that some of the most dangerous tunnels in Vietnam had no one in them? It wasnt about tunnels or troops, but the nasty suprises that others leave behind I was thinking of. The cemetery is full of pieces of bodies that belonged to the cocky or careless.

Yes, thousands should have been inspecting, but I think the administration is afraid of what they may not find. WMD's were a usefull concept to bring people aboard, but not the need is not there. Invasion is over, Saddam out. All that passed before is irrelevent, and will be forgotten by the American public with few exceptions. In conversations about the world, it is already as if this never happened.

 

[Alistar7]

nah, we have the liberals who will not let this go, at least until the next election is over.

I did not vote for Bush last time, and he doesn't produce something by next time, he's not getting it then either....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
nah, we have the liberals who will not let this go, at least until the next election is over.

I did not vote for Bush last time, and he doesn't produce something by next time, he's not getting it then either....

Oh, it will be brought up, but remember Geo I. He fought a successful campaign in the first Gulf War, and it did little to benefit. Americans (and everyone else for that matter) simply have too short a memory in this context.

 

[Alistar7]

He accomplished the objective of that war though, we expect any Commander in Chief to do the same. Had he done nothing to Iraq in 1991 and the economy tanked the effect would have been the same on his political outcome here.

I doubt that lesson was forgotten by the Bush family. Bush Sr.'s adminstration was hampered by huge deficits and all the other fun leftovers from Ronnie and his willing democratic congress, the massive deficit spending, the S&L's, etc. Bush Sr. had to raise taxes, a democratic congress wouldn't have cut spending to save his ass.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Bush II also has an advantage. The American public has learned fear. Fearful people are easily manipulated. The War on Terrorism is eternal, and therefore so is the fear potential. There will be enough Orange alerts and unrest to guarantee that large numbers will look for salvation in the form of their current leader.


BTW, I respected Bush I quite a bit. I had no qualms about removing the Iraqi forces from Kuwait, and he had an agreement with the allies as to how far to proceed. He kept up his end, and has been trashed for it. He kept his word in that regard, and in so doing, earned my respect. Bush I did not have a good handle on how the public would respond to the economy, and found it hard to define why he should be President a second term. Clinton who was far more savvy in this regard. For an interesting read, I suggest "War in a Time of Peace" by David Halberstam (author of the Best and Brightest)

 

[Moonbeam]

Weapons in the quantities suggested to stampeed the nation into the war would have easily been found. We were talking tons and tons and a mushroom cloud. Bush lied as did his whole admin including Powell. The made the US an agressor nation in an unjust war.

 

[Alistar7]

Yes Powell sure looked stupid going to the UN with bogus drawings of mobile bio labs the UN had never even seen, of course they didn't exist anymore than terrorist tarining camps linked to al-qaida being used to teach WMD use, of course to believe that you must forget they just invited international weapons inspectors to check out the two mobile labs, and the dead al-qaida all around one of the terrorist camps where we also found WMD recipes and dispersion manuals.

This war was just based only on the oppression the people of Iraq have lived through, how many mass graves will it take to make you realize that? How many bodies do they have to dig up, I will let you know when it hits that total.

 

[43st]

Well if that was the reason then we better saddle up and invade the Congo soon. We have many many countries to topple before we rid the world of all the people equal to or worse than Saddam.

No one should vote for that man again if he backs down now. The moral wars have just begun.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Thera
Well if that was the reason then we better saddle up and invade the Congo soon. We have many many countries to topple before we rid the world of all the people equal to or worse than Saddam.

No one should vote for that man again if he backs down now. The moral wars have just begun.

The UN is in place there though, can't you tell?

 

[43st]

Nope. I think it's up to the US to stamp out evil in the world, the UN is worthless. Why have we stopped at Saddam? Anyone?

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: Thera
Nope. I think it's up to the US to stamp out evil in the world, the UN is worthless. Why have we stopped at Saddam? Anyone?

We're reloading.

Literally.

 

[Moonbeam]

Iraq was an easy mark for Bush to have a temper tantrum, vent our frustration and fear of terrorism even though unrelated, and insure reelection as a man of balls. Iraq had to be built up into a huge threat though, first as nobody gets credit for swatting a fly. The notion that we went into Iraq to free the Iraqis is the biggest joke I've heard of late. Oil makes more sense that that.

 

[Moonbeam]

We're reloading.

Literally.
-----------------

Of course, the dream of every arms merchant is perpetual war.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Originally posted by: Thera
Well if that was the reason then we better saddle up and invade the Congo soon. We have many many countries to topple before we rid the world of all the people equal to or worse than Saddam.

No one should vote for that man again if he backs down now. The moral wars have just begun.

If you can't take out all bad people (at the same time), you shouldn't take out any? Great expectations. We can't go into Congo because someone would say its all about the diamonds.

 

[LunarRay]

Conclamoludus

If you can't take out all bad people (at the same time), you shouldn't take out any? Great expectations. We can't go into Congo because someone would say its all about the diamonds. [/quote]

I suspect that if we needed diamonds for our warp drives we'd be there in a jiffy. There are a myriad of reasons to intervien there.
Maybe it I'm all cynical or maybe since the recent mention about the chimp being closer to humans than previously thought I'd find that the Chimp HAS evolved from man... he just don't have much to say about it and won't claim us for fear the orang will look cross ways at him.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Yes Powell sure looked stupid going to the UN with bogus drawings of mobile bio labs the UN had never even seen, of course they didn't exist anymore than terrorist tarining camps linked to al-qaida being used to teach WMD use, of course to believe that you must forget they just invited international weapons inspectors to check out the two mobile labs, and the dead al-qaida all around one of the terrorist camps where we also found WMD recipes and dispersion manuals.

This war was just based only on the oppression the people of Iraq have lived through, how many mass graves will it take to make you realize that? How many bodies do they have to dig up, I will let you know when it hits that total.

According to an article I read yesterday, the Army has "backed off" the claim that the two vans they found are the mobile bio labs. This article only had one sentence about this, and it wasn't the main topic of the piece, so I don't know where they came up with this comment.

As has been explained several times before, the terrorist camp you refer to was solidly in the middle of Kurdish-controlled territory. There is no evidence that the Iraqi government was even aware of the camp, let alone supporting it.

Also as has been well-documented in other threads, Bush and Blair didn't start talking about liberating Iraqis until after their WMD pitch started disintegrating. Even in the Bush & Blair address to the Iraqi people, both focused their comments on Saddam's alleged refusal to disarm WMD's. The "oppression of the Iraqi people" ruse is revisionist history, plain and simple.