Interesting article about Xbox 360 defects (RROD) by Dean Takahashi

[aphex]

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09...deo-game-console-woes/

Saw the article linked on Giz,

Dean Takahashi, one of the most respected tech journos around, spent years putting together this mind-blowing expose that reveals the truly epic scale of the problems that lead to millions of dead Xbox 360s. It really is one of the most stunning flustercucks in gaming history. According to his account, Microsoft willfully ignored deep, systemic problems in the console's production that reached from chipmakers?initially, only 16 out of every 100 of its IBM-made processors worked?to production lines, where just before launch, an unbelievable 68 percent of consoles made were clunkers

A long, but good read.

 

[Eeezee]

Holy shit 68% failure rate? I had no idea that it was that high

 

[Trader05]

Good article.

After my Wii started to sit a year after launch, i was almost sold on Xbox360 because all my friends have it and i was a fan of HD-DVD when it came out, then until i started to do some research. I read up on how much accessories that i would want (Premium system) for example a wireless adapter, rechargeable solution for controller, HD-DVD add-on (hd format war era), and $50 year Live subscription. The finale was the RROD errors everyone was getting and this is when MS put the 3 year warranty extension on. I'd really hate dumping a lot of cash into a system then it failing soon time after. Im not a sony fanboy nor an original xbox fanboy, but i went ahead and purchased a ps3 instead. I purchased one used off a good source and its a launch 60gb console with zero problems. Im happy with it, besides the point that i only know 2 people with ps3s and about 20+ with 360's all with RROD's at one point.

I did go through 2 Wii's though. One launch console with graphical artifacts started popping on up 480p mode and the other one disc drive started vibrating badly which lead to disc errors.

 

[Hyperlite]

the crazy thing is, even with odds like that, they managed to make it into a successful platform. i guess you can do anything with enough money.

and truthfully, the RROD is a significant issue anymore, with new consoles that is.

 

[Baked]

If it weren't for Xbox Live, MS would be outta console gaming a long time ago. Paying to diss 12 year olds is just too damn entertaining.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the crazy thing is, even with odds like that, they managed to make it into a successful platform. i guess you can do anything with enough money.

and truthfully, the RROD is a significant issue anymore, with new consoles that is.

Well, I wouldn't solely attribute it to money. All my friends who have 360's love them, despite of the issues, for one reason alone, the game selection.

While the money kept the whole process going, the games are what kept people to the platform.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the crazy thing is, even with odds like that, they managed to make it into a successful platform. i guess you can do anything with enough money.

and truthfully, the RROD is a significant issue anymore, with new consoles that is.

Well, I wouldn't solely attribute it to money. All my friends who have 360's love them, despite of the issues, for one reason alone, the game selection.

While the money kept the whole process going, the games are what kept people to the platform.

But did the money also get the developers to write the games for the 360? If MS could afford to write off all the money from the defective 360's, it could also fork out the money to convince the developers to code for the 360 as well.

 

[BladeVenom]

It's all about throwing money at it. Few companies could afford to lose billions to fool around in a market. $50 million for some exclusive downloadable GTA4 content show how much they are willing to pay for even the small things.

 

[tk149]

?If you take the question of whether it was the right thing to try to be first, the answer to that is definitely yes,? Bach said in July 2008. ?It has given us a leg up in a number of places that are super important. It has given us a leg up with game developers. It has given us a leg up from an economics perspective. It helped us expand Xbox Live quickly. At a strategy level, if you asked if we wanted to be first again, I would say yes. It?s easy for me to go back and say, if I knew what would transpire over the next two years, would I go back and do something different, I think that?s an obvious answer. But the fact is, based on the data we had at the time and all the hard work we put into it, there was no way to see what actually happened.?

This tells me that Microsoft still doesn't care about its customers. They launched a year before the competition, and didn't listen to their own engineers about the expected failure rate. They deliberately screwed their loyal fanbase and rushed an unready machine to market. This mindset is endemic to their whole operation. Thank God that they don't make pacemakers!

It's really too bad because there are a bunch of 360 games that I would like to play. I ended up buying a Wii and PS3 instead.

I really hope that disgruntled 360 owners vote with their wallet next generation, or at least hold off on buying until the next Xbox 720 is proven reliable. Poor sales for the first year of release would send a more effective message to Microsoft management than anything else.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the crazy thing is, even with odds like that, they managed to make it into a successful platform. i guess you can do anything with enough money.

and truthfully, the RROD is a significant issue anymore, with new consoles that is.

Well, I wouldn't solely attribute it to money. All my friends who have 360's love them, despite of the issues, for one reason alone, the game selection.

While the money kept the whole process going, the games are what kept people to the platform.

But did the money also get the developers to write the games for the 360? If MS could afford to write off all the money from the defective 360's, it could also fork out the money to convince the developers to code for the 360 as well.

I don't think Microsoft has to pay developers to code for the Xbox 360. The PS3 is supposed to be as big a pain in the ass to code for as the PS2 was when it came out... conversely, the Xbox 360 platform is supposed to be relatively easy for developers to exploit it's capabilities.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the crazy thing is, even with odds like that, they managed to make it into a successful platform. i guess you can do anything with enough money.

and truthfully, the RROD is a significant issue anymore, with new consoles that is.

Project management 101:

You have time, money, scope. You only get two.

Scope was clearly defined - become #1 next gen console and get it into the home
Time = limited
Money = not a problem

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the crazy thing is, even with odds like that, they managed to make it into a successful platform. i guess you can do anything with enough money.

and truthfully, the RROD is a significant issue anymore, with new consoles that is.

Well, I wouldn't solely attribute it to money. All my friends who have 360's love them, despite of the issues, for one reason alone, the game selection.

While the money kept the whole process going, the games are what kept people to the platform.

But did the money also get the developers to write the games for the 360? If MS could afford to write off all the money from the defective 360's, it could also fork out the money to convince the developers to code for the 360 as well.

I don't think Microsoft has to pay developers to code for the Xbox 360. The PS3 is supposed to be as big a pain in the ass to code for as the PS2 was when it came out... conversely, the Xbox 360 platform is supposed to be relatively easy for developers to exploit it's capabilities.

Pretty much. MS worked hard to build relationships with developers since the original Xbox. Sure money was involved to get a couple of exclusives but so was a lot of support and tools creation to make the devs job easier.

I don't think we're going to see both MS and Sony completely sell out in the next-gen to the casual gaming crowd. That's not where their bread is buttered. Their biggest sellers are the "hardcore" franchises so we'll likely see a more balanced approach in the next-gen that fixes the problems from the current-gen. MS's problem was obviously quality control with the RROD and Sony's problem was that the PS3 initially came out looking more like a tech wishlist than an actual console that they had to keep scaling back even after production.

 

[BladeVenom]

The worst thing is MS doesn't think what they did was a mistake. They've already basically said they will be first to market again no matter what. So expect the next generation of Xbox to have the same abysmal failure rate that the current generation has. Who's going to be willing to buy a product that you know is going to be poorly made.

 

[RedRooster]

If the games and online are still amazing? Me.

 

[ric1287]

Uhh, you guys say that MS just "payed off" dev's, but isn't the 360 exponentially easier to develop for than the PS3? There have been numerous cases of devs complaining about the PS3's ridiculousness (Left 4 Dead example) that they just say screw it.

It also helps that the 360 is light years ahead of everyone else in terms of online play. Everything else is like playing dreamcast online.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: ric1287
Uhh, you guys say that MS just "payed off" dev's, but isn't the 360 exponentially easier to develop for than the PS3? There have been numerous cases of devs complaining about the PS3's ridiculousness (Left 4 Dead example) that they just say screw it.

It also helps that the 360 is light years ahead of everyone else in terms of online play. Everything else is like playing dreamcast online.

I have a friend that works in the gaming industry, and let's just say when he talked to me about having to work on the PS3 versus the 360... he seemed to dislike the experience working on the prior. They probably wouldn't mind it so much, but whenever you code in something harder, you always have that, "but I can do it this way which is so much easier on this setup."

 

[ric1287]

there's too much in there about "Nintendo taking those dollars". Nintendo is not a competitor of xbox, they are 2 completely different markets.

 

[Rage187]

I don't get it. They won in the US vs. the PS3. Sounds like they did alright considering. Next generation will be that much better.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: Rage187
I don't get it. They won in the US vs. the PS3. Sounds like they did alright considering. Next generation will be that much better.

Lets hope so. The original Xbox had many issues too.

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: Oyeve

Originally posted by: Rage187
I don't get it. They won in the US vs. the PS3. Sounds like they did alright considering. Next generation will be that much better.

Lets hope so. The original Xbox had many issues too.

My original Xbox didn't RRoD the third day I had it.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: Oyeve

Originally posted by: Rage187
I don't get it. They won in the US vs. the PS3. Sounds like they did alright considering. Next generation will be that much better.

Lets hope so. The original Xbox had many issues too.

My original Xbox didn't RRoD the third day I had it.

But it was "too big". Apparently it didn't sell well in Japan since it didn't fit inside the recycled pickle jars that the Japanese use as apartments. Or at least, thats what the article seems to indicate.

So, in conclusion:
Big console = unacceptable design flaw
Console with working life span equivilent to average windows 98 install = NP, just buy a new one

😛

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: Oyeve

Originally posted by: Rage187
I don't get it. They won in the US vs. the PS3. Sounds like they did alright considering. Next generation will be that much better.

Lets hope so. The original Xbox had many issues too.

My original Xbox didn't RRoD the third day I had it.

I remember whwn I worked at BMG and we owned the building that Virgin Music was located in (NYC) we got a 20% discount and me and 12 others all bought the original Xbox. 8 of the 12 died in the first week due to overheating and HD failure. So they had a similar problem the first time. The 360 seems to have suffered the same fate but on a larger scale because there 360s sold much faster than original Xboxes. But I bet the failure rate is about equal. Hopefully third time is the charm with MS. I also recall a large number of launch PS2s dying at a fast rate.

 

[bullbert]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
The worst thing is MS doesn't think what they did was a mistake. They've already basically said they will be first to market again no matter what. So expect the next generation of Xbox to have the same abysmal failure rate that the current generation has. Who's going to be willing to buy a product that you know is going to be poorly made.

Sadly, several million.

 

[VIAN]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the crazy thing is, even with odds like that, they managed to make it into a successful platform. i guess you can do anything with enough money.

and truthfully, the RROD is a significant issue anymore, with new consoles that is.

Well, I wouldn't solely attribute it to money. All my friends who have 360's love them, despite of the issues, for one reason alone, the game selection.

While the money kept the whole process going, the games are what kept people to the platform.

If MS didn't put up the 1.15 billion for defects, they would've been totally F'd.

 

[VIAN]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Originally posted by: Oyeve

Originally posted by: Rage187
I don't get it. They won in the US vs. the PS3. Sounds like they did alright considering. Next generation will be that much better.

Lets hope so. The original Xbox had many issues too.

My original Xbox didn't RRoD the third day I had it.

My original Xbox died after about the length of time it took my 360 to get RROD. It was due to DVD Drive issue that would've cost me at least $100 bucks to fix. As if I'd pay a third of the price because their supplier was an A-hole. And the worst thing is that even the 360 has some DVD drive issues, not even counting the fact that its as loud as a jet. They didn't even learn in that respect.

I've read the paper and it seems to me that they have poor total quality management. If they're going to rely on releasing first to sell the most consoles, then they don't deserve the top spot.