Calling people free loading pieces of shit?
You are a morally bankrupt embarrassment to humanity that should be sent to China to work in a sweatshop making pennies on the dollar, you humongous self-centered ASSHOLE. You don't DESERVE to live in America if you don't care about saving the lives of Americans.
Why dont you just close all the doctor's offices and hospitals while you are at it?
People choose work locations based on available health care coverage. Dont kill the golden goose.
People choose work locations based on available health care coverage. Dont kill the golden goose.
I think C is a joke is this talking about Health insurance or car insurance? Most deductibles for working people are 2500 to 5000 dollars.
- Jan 12, 2005
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What? Yes, there are high-deductible plans out there, but no plan I've ever had through work has ever had a deductible above $500 for an individual and $1000 for a family.
The whole point of the high deductible is to reduce demand, which solves the supply problem, which reduces cost.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
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Do private auto insurance plans work? If so, there must be a way to make private health insurance plans work. Part of the reason auto insurance plans work is because they pay to replace your car when it's totaled. They do not pay to change your oil and wiper blades. Catastrophic private insurance could work very well.
That and nothing on the side of rising cost and poor mangment from health insurance. All HI will do is eat up that voucher and give little to no coverage worth anything.
The biggest issues are more doctors and less middle men.
- Jan 12, 2005
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Even for the current, proposed legislation, the "deal" is that insurers would accept a requirement to insure all comers - even those with pre-existing conditions, at a reasonable price, as long as there were a mandate for EVERYONE to be insured. The reason for this is that without a mandate, health-care consumers reverse cherry-pick (low-risk consumers opt out, and only the sick remain). So you need everyone paying into the system to make the numbers work. The same applies to this new concept.
Specialist care would obviously be covered if it were above the 15% deductible, as would emergency room visits. However, because demand would be reduced (fewer people are going to visit specialists if they pay for thousands of dollars out of pocket before their coverage kicks in), costs would go down.
With everyone covered, the "paradigm" of people using emergency rooms as their "PCP" would vanish. Again, a reduction in demand and therefore cost.
This IS cradle-to-65 "UHC" (it wouldn't be "to grave" only if Medicare continued), so I don't understand your point.
Your original criticism was that costs weren't controlled. Cradle-to-grave UHC that pays for everything does NOTHING to control costs OR imposes severe rationing to control demand. The ONLY way to control costs without rationing is to give consumers an incentive to NOT use services - to reduce demand.
I'm not sure I'm understanding what your problem with this concept is, as it seems to provide virtually everything you say you want.
- Jan 12, 2005
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I don't see your concern. I really don't. What "golden goose" is being killed? Are you saying companies don't have other means of attracting employees?
If people obtained their insurance privately, companies would have the freedom (not the requirement) to use the money they saved to offer other financial incentives (higher pay or more generous perqs) instead of health care.
If THAT is the best you can come up with, this plan is fantastic.
Frankly, I'm bewildered by some of the "objections" I see in this thread. Most are just a product of not understanding the idea in the first place. And the rest amount to "It's bad because it's a change."
Surely, you people can come up with more substantive objections. Or you can be honest enough with yourself to acknowledge that this seems to me a pretty good idea.
- Jan 12, 2005
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Do you really not get it? The fact that insurers will have to compete for consumers means that they'll be competing on the basis of price and coverage? This is EXACTLY what the right says they want: Private competition, not competition with a government "public option".
So, THIS plan is SOLELY private insurers, competing among themselves. And the right's response: Competition doesn't work. Wow.
Is it any wonder that us on the left think the right is brain dead?
I seriously hope you or someone you love gets cancer and gets fucked by the insurance company. Then you'll learn why the health care system in America needs an overhaul. Until then, everyone on this board can safely ignore your ignorant opinion.
It supports a private, for-profit industry that has no direct benefit to society. I further see no reason why this plan would lower costs...costs aren't high because of supply and demand, they're high because those businesses are largely unregulated, taxes are low enough with enough loopholes to encourage maximizing profits, and because the existence of private insurance guarantees a source for this profiteering and creates a closed network of businesses with total market control. I therefore oppose it, and would refuse to participate.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
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I've posted basically the same thing dozens of times on this board over the years. Yet, few people ever even respond. Here was my slightly different version:
1) Get your incompetant manager out of making your most important health care decisions (by ending employer based coverage). He who choses the plans you can use (ie what is included/excluded) often makes a bigger deal to your health than anything else (possibly even more important than your doctor or your own choices). Why should businesses who know nothing about health care be in charge here?
2) Use the savings to give tax CREDITS that equal the cost for high deductible insurance premiums. Tax credits means that we only benefit legal tax paying citizens. All insurance is still private - no government interventions. High deductibles protect you in the worst case situations, but provides an incentive for you to keep costs low. And you are always free to pay more out of pocket for lower deductibles if you wish.
3) Since it is essentially free, any legal citizen who files taxes is covered. This will incorporate a lot more of the young and healthy and help spread the cost of the severely ill. And I say, screw the rest. If non-citizens want health care here, they'd have to pay for it in full out of pocket.
4) Medicare and Medicaid can be ended since they are redundant now that every citizen has insurance.
5) Of course, you still have to address the need for more doctors, the need to move common tasks from doctors to nurses and pharmacists (simple but safe prescription refills for example), the need for tort reform (although that won't make much of a difference in costs), etc.
Sure, this won't completely pay for itself. But since the goverment already pays for 60% of all health care (directly through medicare/medicaid/vet benefits or indirectly through tax deductions), this isn't adding THAT much more to the total cost.
1) Get your incompetant manager out of making your most important health care decisions (by ending employer based coverage). He who choses the plans you can use (ie what is included/excluded) often makes a bigger deal to your health than anything else (possibly even more important than your doctor or your own choices). Why should businesses who know nothing about health care be in charge here?
2) Use the savings to give tax CREDITS that equal the cost for high deductible insurance premiums. Tax credits means that we only benefit legal tax paying citizens. All insurance is still private - no government interventions. High deductibles protect you in the worst case situations, but provides an incentive for you to keep costs low. And you are always free to pay more out of pocket for lower deductibles if you wish.
3) Since it is essentially free, any legal citizen who files taxes is covered. This will incorporate a lot more of the young and healthy and help spread the cost of the severely ill. And I say, screw the rest. If non-citizens want health care here, they'd have to pay for it in full out of pocket.
4) Medicare and Medicaid can be ended since they are redundant now that every citizen has insurance.
5) Of course, you still have to address the need for more doctors, the need to move common tasks from doctors to nurses and pharmacists (simple but safe prescription refills for example), the need for tort reform (although that won't make much of a difference in costs), etc.
Sure, this won't completely pay for itself. But since the goverment already pays for 60% of all health care (directly through medicare/medicaid/vet benefits or indirectly through tax deductions), this isn't adding THAT much more to the total cost.
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