Intels Rival for the Hammer!!!

[Sid03]

<< hmm lets see. the 1 ghz increase is based on the increase from .18 to .13 micron. Seems I wasn't too far off either from all the other info i.e nothwood leaves off at 3.5 ghz >>

so, that means that the p4 will increase a total of 1.5ghz, and you were off by 50%. how you consider 50% not being "too far off", i'm not sure.



<< New motherboards for DDR-II support ofcourse. New motherboard requirements should really come with huge processor design changes, not minor ones. >>

in that case, it may not "require" a new board then. just if you want to use ddr-2. and that's not due to the processor change, but rather due to the memory change. when they make boards for the hammer which supports ddr-2, you'll need a new motherboard then, too. so, i still don't see your point.


my opinions?...

hammer will rock.
hammer will not be low cost like the amd cpu's we are accustomed to.
hammer will not be released this year, unless it is a paper release like their .13 micron mobile announcement was last month.

prescott will rock.
prescott will use s478 and will not "require" a new board unless you want to take advantage of the new features, or your board maker cannot release a new bios to lower the cpu voltage.
prescott will come out after hammer.

people should stop comparing hammer to itanium... but they won't.
people shouldn't "hate" either company. it's a frickin' cpu, for christ's sake... but they still will.
people shouldn't post their biased opinions as fact... but they still will.

 

[SSXeon5]

<< SSXeon5, you need to site your sources and not just spout this kind of stuff.

A 3.06GHz Northwood in Q4 2002 is possible, but not likely given that Intel would have to skip a couple speed grades and wouldn't be able to bank on lower speed grade Pentium 4's.

What does a "more efficient use of hyperthreading" mean? And where did you hear about this. Are you making stuff up?

And like I said before, an 800MHz FSB is just speculation at this point. Other web sites have mentioned a 667MHz FSB. Do you have any sources to back up your claim that Prescott will "defiantly" come with an 800MHz FSB?

And you're quite mistaken about DDR-II's projected production timetable. The vast majority of DRAM manufacturers have said that DDR333 (DDR-I) won't reach mass production/market acceptance until Q1 of 2003. Later on in 2003 DRAM makers will start producing DDR-II modules, but it won't reach the mainstream (mass production) until 2004. Intel wouldn't release a DDR-II supporting CPU/chipset if there was no DDR-II on the market.

Here are a couple articles on DDR-II articles for you to read:

EETimes

SiliconStrategies >>



I covered alot of this on my other post and Its really all speculation right now .... so im not saying thease are hard facts, most are the FSB thing is 667-800Mhz cuz i have heard 667Mhz before too but 800 more often. The 2.4, 2.53Ghz will release in a few weeks and we will see 3.06Ghz around dec .... look up intels new road map. Given that nothwood will most likly hit 3.53Ghz by the time prescott comes. The Hyperthreading thing of a "more advanced version" mostly means at that time it will be more advanced then the usage hyperthreading has now, like you said before alot of apps can get lower performance with HT on, I believe it will be very mainstream if anything. But Anandtech did say 800Mhz fsb so thats where most of my info came from, and it its 800Mhz fsb they will have ram to match the speed. But thanx Agodspeed for clearing up the crap ive been spewing ... lol ....

SSXeon

 

[SSXeon5]

<< What the freak is up with Itanium/Hammer comparisons?

They're aimed at different market places, the only markets they will actually compete in is the 1-8 processor server/workstation. Other than that, Itanium is aimed at hundred+ processor servers due to its high scalability. Even the freaking Merced had a couple of 1000+ processor servers made under it by IBM and HP.

Everything else is hypothetical performance on circumstantial evidence for the most part. >>



Um bud read all of Jerry sanders interviews he says that Sledgehammer is aimed for Xeon/Itanium processors lol



<< SSXeon> With regard to Yamhill this is in response to Hammer, so Intel have a long way to go. AMD have shown final silicon, intel are still jamming in the back rooms with Yamhill.

Prescot can suck AMD's balls, High Ghz and no punch. All revs and no Torque.

Yamhill is the worst kind of VapourWare and the Prescott will be yet another P2-P3 style transition with little added and a lot taken away(from your wallet).

Yes, this is Intel fan-boy flamebait... >>



Final silicon ... it is not final it wasnt even running at full speed LMFAO ... they said it was running at the speed of the compeditors and anandtech figured it was around 800-1000Mhz (Itanium/Mckinley) .... and where is AMD's Tbred??? O yeah its comming in may ..... hmm wasnt it suppose to come Q1 2002? The thing is that the higher MHz you go or want to scale to you get less ICP (Instructions per clock), yet I wana see AMD hit 10Ghz with 6 ICP ..... Intel is doing great with there .09um process coming along great and yet AMD is still having problems with there .13um and SOI processes ..... Thats AMD Zelot flamebait

SSXeon

 

[SSXeon5]

<<

<< How much of a clock speed increase do you think a .13 to .09 die shrink will give? A ghz at the most if you ask me. >>

and what do you base your opinion on?



<< I am also assuming these things will need new motherboards too. >>

again, why are you assuming this? besides, if needing a new board is such an issue for you, then i guess you have problems with the hammer, too.



<< Amd will eventually be going for a .09m process. >>

yep, and amd will eventually be going to a .13 micron process too. a full year (or more) after intel. what's your point?



<< To be honest I seriously hope Intel can do a tad better then this else the hammer will crush them. >>

to be honest, you have no basis for your opinions other than to spread fud, as you always do. if you do a search of your posts, you'll find that they are nothing but a bunch of amd zealotry.

with comments like: "As much as I despise intel..." i'm not sure how one could take your comments as unbiased. >>



Sid03 ahahah you punked him good dammit triple post my bad

SSXeon

 

[spanner]

Sid03 you misinterpret everything I say. 3.5ghz to 4ghz is a 0.5ghz increase, After all its initial speeds need to compete with the hammer not the higher speeds that wil come in later.

As for new mobos. I know AMD has the same problem. My point is everytime somebody needs to buy a new mobo and a new CPU they have to ask if there is a better option and if the hammer is even slightly better then oops, Intel will lose a customer to AMD. As for keeping the same mobo without DDR-II support, that kinda takes away the added performane does it not? again giving more points to AMD. Its the same reason AMD didn't die when the 1.6A's came along, because people can just buy a higher powered XP as opposed to buying a new mobo.

Again I stress that this is speculation, I never said anything about facts. I could attack your opinions but I won't, because they are opinions just like mine. Again how about alternate theories, speculation rather then saying mine are crap.

Also I have my reasons for hating Intel and it has very little to do with which CPU performs better. its more along the lines of company ethics.

 

[SSXeon5]

<< Sid03 you misinterpret everything I say. 3.5ghz to 4ghz is a 0.5ghz increase, After all its initial speeds need to compete with the hammer not the higher speeds that wil come in later.

As for new mobos. I know AMD has the same problem. My point is everytime somebody needs to buy a new mobo and a new CPU they have to ask if there is a better option and if the hammer is even slightly better then oops, Intel will lose a customer to AMD. As for keeping the same mobo without DDR-II support, that kinda takes away the added performane does it not? again giving more points to AMD. Its the same reason AMD didn't die when the 1.6A's came along, because people can just buy a higher powered XP as opposed to buying a new mobo.

Again I stress that this is speculation, I never said anything about facts. I could attack your opinions but I won't, because they are opinions just like mine. Again how about alternate theories, speculation rather then saying mine are crap.

Also I have my reasons for hating Intel and it has very little to do with which CPU performs better. its more along the lines of company ethics. >>



Bro prescott is suppose to launch at 4Ghz and end at 6Ghz+ ..... figuring that the northwood started pretty much at 1.6Ghz and will end at around 3.53Ghz .... and the whole new mobo thing is not true, lets say my Asus P4B266-C is lying around and the new mPGA478 prescott 5GHz looks nice ill throw it in, or if you want a new mobo then get one. And with hammer you WILL have to buy a new mobo and cpu, with prescott if it holds true at socket 478 then you will only need to upgrade the cpu if you want. But I do see what you are saying bro, you just have different opinions then me and perfer the chipmaker i dislike .... thats kewl with me

SSXeon

 

[spanner]

"Final silicon ... it is not final it wasnt even running at full speed LMFAO ... they said it was running at the speed of the compeditors and anandtech figured it was around 800-1000Mhz"

Amd now has final silicon, that 800-1000mhz demo was a while back. Word is that compaq has a final silicon full speed test version that it is using to test the new nforce mobos. Yup the AMD hammer is ready to rock the second they can get the darn things into full production, I agree that is where AMD need a little help

Oh yeah Sid03 ain't got nothin on me. I am jsut getting warmed up, don't make me bring out the flamethrower in your thread

 

[SSXeon5]

<< "Final silicon ... it is not final it wasnt even running at full speed LMFAO ... they said it was running at the speed of the compeditors and anandtech figured it was around 800-1000Mhz"

Amd now has final silicon, that 800-1000mhz demo was a while back. Word is that compaq has a final silicon full speed test version that it is using to test the new nforce mobos. Yup the AMD hammer is ready to rock the second they can get the darn things into full production, I agree that is where AMD need a little help

Oh yeah Sid03 ain't got nothin on me. I am jsut getting warmed up, don't make me bring out the flamethrower in your thread >>



how do they have a .13um core ready when the Tbred wont be released now untill mid june .... show me a link that they do have the FINAL .13um core of the hammer ready ....

SSXeon

 

[spanner]

Umm I thought you knew, They already have .13micron test samples even of thouroughbread, heck I heard they are already being shipped some countries. Like I said its mass production that hasn't happened yet. I'll get you the link when I find it again

 

[BD231]

People, we haven't even got our hands on a Hammer, and your already talking about something that's going to r*pe it?, wtf is up with this back and forth Intel AMD shiz-nit? Will it ever end?

 

[Fingers]

as far as a final core for hammer being available before t-bred is out, I have heard that in order to keep up with expected demand all hammers will be manufactured in dresden while all versions of the athlon/athlon XP are being moved to another facility which needed drastic retooling, which is why AMD is having delays getting t-bred out. I read it on a respectable website, but I can't remember where for the life of me.

to keep out of the flame war thats erupting I will keep my CPU preference to myself.

 

[imgod2u]

<< Sandra is a synthetic benchmark. If the program isn't rewritten then it will not be aware of how to use HT to improve the scores. >>



HT is suppose to be transparent to the software. It appears to the OS just like 2 processors (except for XP, which recognizes the difference between logical and physical processors, but still treats it the same nonetheless). Hence, you do NOT need updated software to "take advantage" of hyperthreading. You merely need multithreaded software (software that would've taken advantage of dual CPU's or more). I pointed to the Sandra scores because we can see how much of raw data the CPU can do without other restraints (memory, graphics, etc.). And as I said, the ALU benchmarks seem to skyrocket while the FPU benchmarks stays relatively the same. Anand pointed this out that with more (or rather, effectively more) ALU units, Hyperthreading can help. The only time Hyperthreading would hurt is if there were less units available than the threads needed and hence you'd have resource conflicts. That would explain why the FPU scores didn't increase with HT enabled, as the P4 has 2 FPU. I would expect with HT in full use in Prescott, Intel would release something similar to a "double-pumped" FPU, or just add more FPU units to help the processor use HT.

 

[ronnaZ]

i am a big fan of AMD but none of the two processors (Hammer/Prescott)have been released then why fight??

 

[Degenerate]

na.... people just like "r@ping" CPU's....

 

[Texmaster]

Lay off my boy SSXeon5 AMD lovers

 

[lsman]

about Thoroughbred

 

[dexvx]

Hammer will bury the Pentium 4 and all the Celerons. Intel simply got no chance. One thing I worry about... when I get the Hammer, which chipset to use? SiS or VIA? Both don't seem good at all . Issues, issues... *Sigh* I hope AMD will release a Hammer chipset, otherwise they might lose lots of potential customers who are VIA-aware!

Why would AMD care about a chipset? It has a built in DDR memory controller on the cpu, thats basically the Northbridge right there. A comparison of Hammer to P4 and especially Celeron is grossly off. You better read the Anand 64bit FAQ before you start daydreaming about 64bit computing. And btw, dont expect a Hammer to be priced the level of an Athlon MP, since it is a relatively niche market its going after, you should more or less expect Sun type pricing.

64 bit Anand Faq

 

[Platinum321]

another thing you need to realize about AMD is that they need to raise the ASP of their chips if they want to get out of the red and grow the company. their strategy of selling low and trying to gain marketshare will not work too well. intel can do it, simply because they can have big margins in other areas. anywho, i mention this because of the amd lovers who love amd because of their pricing.... it's not working too well for amd..

 

[Kell]

>>*Sigh* I hope AMD will release a Hammer chipset, otherwise they might lose lots of potential customers who are VIA-aware!

Didn't you hear? The Hammer's chipset is a hella chipset. PCI southbridge for standard desktop devices. Optional PCI-X controller chip for servers that need it. HyperTransport linkage all over the thing. Oh, and the AGP problem that people noticed at Hammer's IDF demo has been resolved.

I doubt AMD would go to all that trouble if they didn't plan to release this chipset in some form.

 

[AGodspeed]

as far as a final core for hammer being available before t-bred is out, I have heard that in order to keep up with expected demand all hammers will be manufactured in dresden while all versions of the athlon/athlon XP are being moved to another facility which needed drastic retooling, which is why AMD is having delays getting t-bred out. I read it on a respectable website, but I can't remember where for the life of me.

to keep out of the flame war thats erupting I will keep my CPU preference to myself.

You bring up a very good point Fingers. That other facility is actually a 300mm fab in Taiwan, operated and owned by UMC (one of the bigger semiconductor foundries in the world). Under this agreement, AMD is going to have UMC produce the vast majority of .13-micron Tbred and Barton by Q3/Q4 of this year, which will give AMD's Fab 30 plant in Germany time to ramp up .13-micron SOI ClawHammers during Q4 of this year so they will ship on time (planned shipping date = Q4 2002). However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if AMD only ships ClawHammer in Q4 2002 (instead of actual availability). If that's the case, actual availability would come only in approx February/March 2003.

However, every report I've read about the ClawHammer in the last 4 months has said that ClawHammer debugging is going extremely well, and that final shipping ClawHammers will be panned out by Q2 2002, which gives AMD 6 months to get to work on getting good yields and eventually shipping those ClawHammers.

 

[Degenerate]

<< Hammer will bury the Pentium 4 and all the Celerons. Intel simply got no chance. >>


And on what basis is that?

 

[S13SilviaK]

I tried to read this whole thing but it seems to go in circles. The bottom line is no one cpu company at this point AMD/Intel is going to jump all over the other one, as long as there are people out there buying chips then these two companies will be selling them. Yes it's possible one chip may pull ahead (ie athlon K7) for a short period of time but after awhile things will even, that's the way it is. Niether of these companies are stupid they know better than to release some "super" chip and shoot themselves in the foot and lose the money that they could have been making on the inbetween steppings. Come on goes let's use our heads, get off the AMD/Intel war block and get down to discussing the facts of a new chip.

 

[Degenerate]

<< Niether of these companies are stupid they know better than to release some "super" chip and shoot themselves in the foot and lose the money that they could have been making on the inbetween steppings >>


That could be true. Buit inmagine how much more money, costomers would go buy that chip? they can simply DOMINATE THE MARKET if they released a "super chip". My way of thinking is that Neither companies are stupid enough NOT to have something up their sleves to compete with the other company.

 

[LP29]

Blah!Blah!Blah!Blah!Blah! Another AMD vs INTEL!

These Hammer and Prescott won't be around soon. A comet might crash into the earth in the coming months(knock on wood) and wipeout mankind. There, no more Hammer and no more Prescott. Happy!!!

 

[Boonesmi]

i started reading this thread hoping to get some good info!!

but its basically a bunch of intel fanboys and amd fanboys, hehe to bad i have to side with the amd guys