Discussion Intel's past, present and future

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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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igor_kavinski said:
Pat Gelsinger and gang spent most of it like there was no tomorrow.

I sure would love to know the cost of the defective Raptor Lake re-imbursements/replacements. Has to be a cool billion at least.

@511 don't you dare deflect by speaking ill of previous CEOs. This was ALL Pat. He had the key to Intel's kingdom and he ran it as he saw fit.
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Actually the reputational damage has been far worse than the monetary cost of RMAs. I guess there's no institutional knowledge remaining of the olden days, when Intel spent a ton of money to make good for the Pentium FDIV bug. (They spent $475M in 1994 dollars.)

It's stunning to see the rapid erosion of their CPU businesses. Lip-Bu Tan is right about one thing; IF he saves the company, it will be studied in business schools as one of the greatest rescues ever.

Since I normally don't believe in miracles, most likely a much richer tech firm will buy the rotting corpse of Intel in a few short years.
 
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whoshere

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Feb 28, 2020
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itvision.altervista.org
yottabit said:
I think in general the thread will die here
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Maybe that's what the moderation team actually wants.

People in this subforum are so far removed from semiconductor technology, integrated circuits, and computer architectures that they have no understanding of the challenges Intel faces or how the company can survive.
Perknose said:
we received multiple complaints in Reported Posts
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I'm sorry, but can't people who don't find this topic useful simply you know ignore it?

And what if I start reporting everything I don't like here? Or better yet create a dozen of accounts to report posts, will you effectively bury other topics as well?

I find this decision confusing.
 
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DAPUNISHER

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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whoshere said:
Maybe that's what the moderation team actually wants.
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That's a mod callout. You should know better by now.
whoshere said:
People in this subforum are so far removed from semiconductor technology, integrated circuits, and computer architectures that they have no understanding of the challenges Intel faces or how the company can survive.
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What is this condescending horseshit?

whoshere said:
And what if I start reporting everything I don't like here?
Click to expand...
FAFO
whoshere said:
Or better yet create a dozen of accounts to report posts, will you effectively bury other topics as well?
Click to expand...
Again, FAFO.
 
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Perknose

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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whoshere said:
Maybe that's what the moderation team actually wants.
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It is not.
whoshere said:
I find this decision confusing.
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Yes, it was. It was a tricky decision, deciding between conflicting "goods."

Now, allow me to put my mod hat on and say:

You are not allowed to criticize mod decisions in open forum. The sole legitimate venue is Moderator Discussions, for reasons that should be obvious to you, good sir. You SHOULD be infracted for this, but because of the "confusing" situation, I will give you a pass. Go forth and sin no more.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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Hulk

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I am still wrapping my head around the troubles Intel are experiencing and the long, steady decline over the last 10 years or so. I have seen it written around here that much of Intel's lead over AMD was due to fabs and when they lost that they fell behind. I don't understand fully but it seemed until Zen 2 or 3 Intel always had an IPC advantage over AMD, and other x86 competitors when they were around, outside of the "blip" during the P4 years, from which they bounced back with Core2.

I had to use the overused fail word, but Intel has been failing when it comes to process over and over again to the point where they are now building parts using other fabs. 20A was going to be great, DOA, 18A even better, DOA.

What the heck is being produced in Intels fabs these days?
 
marees

marees

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2024
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Hulk said:
I am still wrapping my head around the troubles Intel are experiencing and the long, steady decline over the last 10 years or so. I have seen it written around here that much of Intel's lead over AMD was due to fabs and when they lost that they fell behind. I don't understand fully but it seemed until Zen 2 or 3 Intel always had an IPC advantage over AMD, and other x86 competitors when they were around, outside of the "blip" during the P4 years, from which they bounced back with Core2.

I had to use the overused fail word, but Intel has been failing when it comes to process over and over again to the point where they are now building parts using other fabs. 20A was going to be great, DOA, 18A even better, DOA.

What the heck is being produced in Intels fabs these days?
Click to expand...
It would help if you can abstract it as chip design & foundry

Then we have 5 players

Intel design & Intel fab
AMD & global foundry
TSMC

AMD was always competitive with Intel design
However global foundry was dragging them down

Once AMD switched to TSMC their problems disappeared

Intel design is now being dragged down by their fabs

Existential question is should Intel design abandon their fabs & switch to TSMC ?
 
marees

marees

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2024
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marees said:
It would help if you can abstract it as chip design & foundry

Then we have 5 players

Intel design & Intel fab
AMD & global foundry
TSMC

AMD was always competitive with Intel design
However global foundry was dragging them down

Once AMD switched to TSMC their problems disappeared

Intel design is now being dragged down by their fabs

Existential question is should Intel design abandon their fabs & switch to TSMC ?
Click to expand...
The complication here is TSMC is Taiwan & thus can be taken over by China any time they want to

Intel is a strategic US Asset

The obvious answer is for US to nationalize Intel foundry

How that is going to happen now is the question
 
marees

marees

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2024
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marees said:
The complication here is TSMC is Taiwan & thus can be taken over by China any time they want to

Intel is a strategic US Asset

The obvious answer is for US to nationalize Intel foundry

How that is going to happen now is the question
Click to expand...
Slightly off topic — Mubadala got suckered into buying global Foundries

Need someone like that to invest in Intel foundries
 
marees

marees

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2024
1,377
1,974
96
marees said:
It would help if you can abstract it as chip design & foundry

Then we have 5 players

Intel design & Intel fab
AMD & global foundry
TSMC

AMD was always competitive with Intel design
However global foundry was dragging them down

Once AMD switched to TSMC their problems disappeared

Intel design is now being dragged down by their fabs

Existential question is should Intel design abandon their fabs & switch to TSMC ?
Click to expand...
Below is an example of how Intel design can match AMD when they use TSMC

www.techpowerup.com

Intel "Lunar Lake" Updated PL2 Setting Can Yield Up to 30% Higher Gaming Performance

We recently published our MSI Claw 8 AI+ A2VM review, which is the only handheld gaming device to utilize the Intel Core Ultra 7 258V "Lunar Lake" CPU, featuring four E-cores and four P-cores, paired with the Intel Arc 140V Xe2 GPU. During our testing, we ran the handheld device at its stock...
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
 
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cytg111

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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whoshere said:
Maybe that's what the moderation team actually wants.

People in this subforum are so far removed from semiconductor technology, integrated circuits, and computer architectures that they have no understanding of the challenges Intel faces or how the company can survive.


I'm sorry, but can't people who don't find this topic useful simply you know ignore it?

And what if I start reporting everything I don't like here? Or better yet create a dozen of accounts to report posts, will you effectively bury other topics as well?

I find this decision confusing.
Click to expand...
Thats right, so far removed from reality we might as well be on the eternal planes of magic mushrooooooooms.

I am a stock holder. I keep hoping for this turnaround to happen and I really thought the Chips Act was it.
Are we going to see a Chips Act 2.0? Probably not with the Orange right? And see .. .now it's right back on track with PN :).

Edit: With all the Taiwan and China bs going on I still dont see how Intel can be allowed to fail it's fabs.
 
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hal2kilo

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,746
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What ever happened to the company that used to amaze me, back when I had my first tech job working with digital electronics. Intel's 8080 processor and the whole family of products like 2708 EV proms. Had my Fairchild data bible next to me, and taught myself so much, realizing that there was this whole building block of chips that could do all kinds of things. Even built my own logic probe with a one shot chip, lighting one segment of a numeric led, because the outfit I was working for was too cheap to by a scope that could see a JK flipflop, flip. It's like Intel has lost their fire and have no imagination anymore. Tick Toc stopped working 10 years ago.
 
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allisolm

allisolm

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Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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BonzaiDuck

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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Let's not be silly about this. Let's not be serious about it.

Trump will nationalize Intel as a matter of whim. He may not think he's a COMMUNIST, because he's a FASCIST. Remember -- fascists nationalized IG Farben.

Don't worry. The sumbitch will attempt to destroy anything and anybody who gets in his way. Columbia U? Harvard? UCLA? You ain't seen NUTHIN' yet!
 
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H

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,805
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BonzaiDuck said:
Let's not be silly about this. Let's not be serious about it.

Trump will nationalize Intel as a matter of whim. He may not think he's a COMMUNIST, because he's a FASCIST. Remember -- fascists nationalized IG Farben.

Don't worry. The sumbitch will attempt to destroy anything and anybody who gets in his way. Columbia U? Harvard? UCLA? You ain't seen NUTHIN' yet!
Click to expand...
There's a politics forum, please use it.
 
Hulk

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,122
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allisolm said:
Ask and you shall receive.


"Intel stock rose 7% in trading on Thursday after Bloomberg reported that the Trump administration is in talks with the chipmaker to have the U.S. government take a stake in the embattled company."

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The government would do better to physically burn money and thus deflate the current money supply (increase its value) rather than metaphorically burn it by giving it to Intel. When a ship is sinking as fast as Intel, no amount of pumping can fix it.
 
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