Discussion Intel's past, present and future

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511

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2024
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Crashtor Lake ring a bell?
He mishandled the PR that was on him but he didn't destroy the company
The world agrees Intel was at its best without a CEO. Many people are saying it. LBT? Destroying Intel. Pat? Destroying Intel. BS? Destroying Intel. BK? Destroying Intel. Otellini? Destroying Intel.
ehh you forgot Intel Trinity?
The problem is it is years of strategic mistake piling up starting otellini he missed mobile phone Brian Came messed up manufacturing made a bunch of acquisition also iirc it was under him that intel started the ACT Layoff laying off crucial talent than came swan he was at the wrong place tbh he was just made CEO cause they couldn't find anyone else didn't put enough funding in fabs Pat came missed AI over invested in fabs.
 

Joe NYC

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2021
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Well, Apple can do that. They've returned $1T to shareholders, they can invest $600B in the US.

But I'll tell you a secret - all of the investments into the US that Trump is getting in his deals - from Apple, from TSMC, from the EU, from Japan? They're all meaningless. Trump knows they're meaningless, but he knows he has no leverage so he puts that forward as a way to save face for losing on a negotiation.

The investments are not meaningless. The US was in an irrecoverable decline, as an industrial power.

There is no public money (the US is broke). The only source of investment money are private investments of rich (foreign and domestic) companies.

Access to the US market, where all these companies make most of their money is being used as a bargaining chip. The companies can have access to this market, but only under the condition that they also manufacture their products on US soil.

Quite simple and clever strategy, from the starting point of the US being broke. Probably the only viable strategy there is.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
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Otellini started the trend of not properly reinvesting money in the company, in particular near the end of his tenure. He could be blamed for not getting into smartphones/tablets, but it's difficult to say even with hindsight whether that would have worked well or not. I think the only 'smart' move in that respect would have been to shift toward a foundry model to service that market.

BK is at fault for Intel's current state. He sold the board on a promise of capturing tablets and smartphones and basically gave away the chips for free to try and make it happen. It might have happened if they were willing to continue for long enough, but instead it was abandoned too soon to see any return on the investment. At that point he had no idea what else to do and hence started pumping the stock with buybacks. Couple that with his background in manufacturing management leading him to believe that he knew better than the engineers and you had the recipe for 10nm and beyond. He also setup Sapphire Rapids for failure with the decision to skimp on proper pre-silicon validation.

Bob Swan was fine with letting BK's mismanagement continue to strangle Intel to death. After all, times were good and profits could be used to pump the stock price via buybacks. On the order of $13B a year of stock buybacks. Just think if even half that money had been reinvested in, ya know, manufacturing and R&D.

Pat Gelsinger attempted to put Intel back on course. And it's 100% incorrect to claim that he missed AI - he invested properly in it, he just made the mistake of trusting the middle management to do what they said they were going to. Recall that Gelsinger was the one who identified the future threat of NVIDIA and pushed through Larrabee as a competitor.... for which he was ousted because it didn't produce results in a timely fashion. Had that side project received proper funding and support today's landscape may well look very different. When he finally got his chance at CEO Intel was in far, far worse shape than when he'd left. But he actually set about correcting much of the damage which BK and Swan had done. Only problem being that he was spending on the fab side at a rate to make up for over a decade of neglect and the current financials couldn't support that. And again, he wasn't as aggressive at clearing out the middle management as he should have been... which was a problem because the culture of said middle management had become one of overpromise and underdeliver.

LBT is currently in the process of destroying what remains of Intel. His initial claims were right on, giving cause for optimism. But unfortunately his actions don't match up. The layoffs have been almost entirely on the individual contributor level, middle management is practically untouched. And you'll recall the press release from a few months ago of hiring certain experts that were supposed to fix everything... aka hire more middle management. As has already been pointed out, the general sentiment regarding his RTO mandate is that it's moronic and will simply drive away individual contributors who valued that flexibility and have zero reason to go into an office. (I've heard plenty of stories of top performers who are being told to go into an office despite the fact that no one they work with is in that office.) Another example of his stupidity is mandating a return of SMT to the design because data center customers want it before the 'performance' core data center variants without SMT have even been provided to said customers. Basically, if he stays I don't expect Intel to survive as I see no reason not to expect the bad decisions to continue. One definitely could make the argument that he wants Intel to fail in order for his Walden International investments to pay off.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Yes way, remember the popular belief that Intel should be seen as a national priority/risc for US Gov? There's two sides to this claim, one that involves a potential bail out (free money), and one that involves securing it from external influence (direct government control). People are willing to suspend capitalism for the sake of bail outs, but invoke the free market supremacy when governments decide that special protection comes with special oversight.

LBT has two problems from the POV of US officials - AFAIK he's invested in multiple Chinese tech companies and the company he led before coming to Intel, Cadence Design Systems, pleaded guilty for unlawful exporting semiconductor design tools to China. The unlawful exports happened during his tenure as CEO of Cadence.

He might be able to salvage this if he attends enough dinners with enough important people. The irony is that Pat G. might have been able to reduce this friction had they not jettisoned him like a rotten tomato.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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LBT has two problems from the POV of US officials - AFAIK he's invested in multiple Chinese tech companies and the company he led before coming to Intel, Cadence Design Systems, pleaded guilty for unlawful exporting semiconductor design tools to China. The unlawful exports happened during his tenure as CEO of Cadence.
Came to post this. I don't see any way he survives as CEO with the pressure that is going to be put on the company.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
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Not wrong but if the Board won't let the CEO spin off/kill the fabs, there might not be much of an alternative.
At the moment, probably not. Though if the board were intelligent enough to admit their mistake and bring back Pat with appropriate financial supervision...

In the current environment, Intel needs a CEO that can play politics. That's the only way to compete against TSMC and Samsung on the foundry side. Get that 100% tariff to apply to any silicon not manufactured in the US and suddenly Intel foundry makes sense. It's the only way to ever get leading edge silicon manufacturing to occur in the US.
 

Thunder 57

Diamond Member
Aug 19, 2007
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Past = Pat
Present = LBT
Future = ???

Barring some significant changes Future could be "sold for parts" or "banruptcy". Either of which would be bad for all of us. Can the US really not manage a leading end fab? It's bizarre. I really wish GloFo had stayed in the race at this point. Even at 7nm I'm sure they could get customers.
 
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johnsonwax

Senior member
Jun 27, 2024
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The investments are not meaningless.
Yes they are because they're never going to happen. Everyone knows they're never going to happen. Japan and the EU said as much. Tim Cook can clear that $500B without any changes to how they do business. TSMC isn't going to do anything different either.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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I know no one probably said this to avoid politics getting into this thread BUT


Simply so he can put a conservative white goon back in the top dog position. Heck, he might even give Gelsinger his job back. Everyone knows how much influence IDC had on Gelsinger and now due to IDC and israel fab being scaled down, netanbastard is telling trump what to do.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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He mishandled the PR that was on him but he didn't destroy the company
Yeah, you are right. He didn't destroy the company. He just destroyed a large portion of what was remaining of the company. You forgot how Intel share price got wiped out overnight under Pat?

The problem is it is years of strategic mistake piling up starting otellini he missed mobile phone Brian Came messed up manufacturing made a bunch of acquisition also iirc it was under him that intel started the ACT Layoff laying off crucial talent than came swan he was at the wrong place tbh he was just made CEO cause they couldn't find anyone else didn't put enough funding in fabs Pat came missed AI over invested in fabs.
Now this is much better and more aligned with reality.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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The problem is that Intels problems are real, and time is running out. The US seems to not care if we lose Intel.
Part of that is Apple's success which is directly a result of Intel refusing to play ball with them. So in a sense, Intel shot themselves in the foot because they underestimated Apple and now Apple (or rather Tim Cook) will play politics to ensure that x86 dies out. Once this happens, the backward compatibility dream will be dead. It will become a stupid game of maintaining multiple generations of emulators to keep old software running at abysmal speeds if you are the type who refuses to buy every new version of your favorite software.
 
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poke01

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Mar 8, 2022
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Once this happens, the backward compatibility dream will be dead. It will become a stupid game of maintaining multiple generations of emulators to keep old software running at abysmal speeds if you are the type who refuses to buy every new version of your favorite software.
nah, this won't happen. I and many others want a platfrom that offers backward compatibility, this is what will make x86 survive. MANY businesses depend on x86 only software.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Apple had nothing do with Intels mistakes
In a way, it was Apple's fault. They went wayyyyy out of their way to be the best.

As an x86 enthusiast, that almost makes me an Apple enemy. I don't like when something I like is threatened because of a successful company. I feel the same way about M$ destroying Win10 and forcing the abomination that is Win11 on us.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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nah, this won't happen. I and many others want a platfrom that offers backward compatibility, this is what will make x86 survive. MANY businesses depend on x86 only software.
If trump gets involved and advised by toxic people, a simple executive order could phase out x86 overnight.

M$ has Windows on ARM so they have nothing to worry about.
 

Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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If trump gets involved and advised by toxic people, a simple executive order could phase out x86 overnight.

M$ has Windows on ARM so they have nothing to worry about.

LOL! I'd say you must be joking but somehow I doubt that. And why? That would be unbelieveably stupid.
 
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poke01

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In a way, it was Apple's fault. They went wayyyyy out of their way to be the best.

As an x86 enthusiast, that almost makes me an Apple enemy. I don't like when something I like is threatened because of a successful company. I feel the same way about M$ destroying Win10 and forcing the abomination that is Win11 on us.
Well, that is competition and good planning and Intel lacked that. The good thing is Apple doesn't sell their chips so Intel doesn't have to worry about being a merchant vendor. Intel's engineers job is to outpace Apples chips and thats where it ends

Now, Qualcomm is a merchant sillicon vendor and Intel will struggle with CPU wise with them if Qualcomm puts out good stuff