Intel's Nehalem...

[Duvie]

again single core to quad core...and all fit on same socket....

While that doesn't mean the same chipset was used or that the mobo you bought a few years ago with a prescott heater will fit a 45nm quadcore....however it does offer quite the range for that socket

 

[EdzAviator]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: EdzAviator
<<<why can't intel standardized their socket platform like amd..current AM2 are still compatible with Phenom....Am2+ are compatible with upcoming 45nm AMD..
future AM3 proc are also compatible w/ AM2+ mobos coz AM3 proc hav DDR2 & DDR3 controller...

Yeah, you're right, AMD has only had three mandatory chipset changes in the past 2½ years, with the fourth coming in the next 6 months. And how many has Intel had in the last 2½ years? Oh that's right, they've had two that were mandatory. Wow, Intel sucks compared to AMD, don't they?:roll:

I'm not talking all about sockets...Its upgradability that matters...If AMD can just drop in Phenom(AM2+) on AM2 mobo then why can't INTEL do that..??? If AMD can make future Phenom(AM3) have DDR2 & DDR3 on the same chip so that you can drop in any time on any AM2+ mobo then why can't intel do that...???

It's ok that intel change socket for nehalem but a 3 socket for 1 the same processor is absurd...Why can't they make a nehalem with that supports both DDR2 & DDR3 so that if you ugrade to a DDR3, you wouldn't have to change both mobo & processor (you can simply buy a DDR3 mobo for nehalem & DDR3 ram but retain the processor)..??

 

[EdzAviator]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Think about it this way...

INtel created a whole new direction to that of the P4 with Core 2 Duo architecture yet they didn't require a sckt change.....AMD changed the sckt with their 65nm architecture and what did they get out of it? No headroom, no performance increase and even a lacluster phenom release...

I can go to newegg right now and buy a motherboard that is capable of running intel chips from Pentium 4, Pentium EE, Pentium D, celeron D, Core 2 Duo, Core 2 Quad, and have future support for 45nm C2Q.....What does amd have to offer of similar longevity?

yeah they did not change socket but they require diffrent revisions for C2D..
I bought Pentium D 805 before and MSI 945G but as soon as C2D came out, its not compatible because it needs revision...where's the upgradability in that..??
Also bought Gigabyte 965P-S3 for my C2D 4300 before but the revision is not compatible with 45nm Peryn..so I just recently upgraded it to Asus P5K and currently waiting for Peryn..

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: EdzAviator
Also bought Gigabyte 965P-S3 for my C2D 4300 before but the revision is not compatible with 45nm Peryn..so I just recently upgraded it to Asus P5K and currently waiting for Peryn..

I honestly doubt you're ignorant enough to think that you'll be able to buy a motherboard that will last you for the rest of your life, and support each new processor that comes out, are you? Or am I giving you too much credit? Oh, and if you actually had a Gigabyte 965P-S3, you'd already have a Q6600 in it, and wouldn't have a need for a Penryn.

 

[Zap]

Actually if you guys want to talk about long-lived motherboards... how about the Abit BH6? It started with the Pentium II 233MHz and ended (with a Slot-T adaptor) with 1.4GHz Pentium III. This spanned several years and across TEN different Intel code-named processors:

Covington (Celeron)
Mendocino (Celeron)
Coppermine-128 (Celeron)
Tualatin-256 (Celeron)
Katmai (Pentium III)
Coppermine (Pentium III)
Coppermine-T (Pentium III)
Tualatin (Pentium III)
Klamath (Pentium II)
Deschutes (Pentium II)

Okay, if we were to weed out chips that were really similar... this removes all the Celeron chips, the Coppermine-T and the Katmai. That still leaves us with:

Klamath - 2.8v 35µm process
Deschutes - 2.0v 25µm process
Coppermine - 1.6-1.75v 18µm process
Tualatin - 1.45v 13µm process

That's four distinct processes and voltage designs.

As for Intel changing stuff, well, they probably don't cry too much when people end up having to buy another Intel chipset motherboard to go with that new Intel processor. Think about it.

 

[chinaman1472]

Just because AMD allows you to use old motherboards for new sockets doesn't mean it's always the better choice. Aside from the aforementioned points of proper speeds and voltages, did you ever think about the fact it's actually holding them back? Sure, it sounds great if you're on a budget and can't afford to drop ~500 for new CPU/Mobo/RAM, but the fact you don't convert to newer, faster technology means you never really catch up.

It's like someone dropping an engine from a new car into an old car simply because it "fits." Sure, you have a nicer engine, but the rest of the car is still going be junk.

 

[mhahnheuser]

In my experience a processor upgrade is not really an upgrade on its own. Judicious upgrading is really a 3 year average cycle of processor platform and video subsystem upgrades. Processor on its own delivers very little in a plug in situation unless it just happens to be for processor intensive tasks, but the old platform quickly stifles the numbers at any rate. Hence OC's buying low bin CPU's super graphics subsystem purchased from the change and achieve high end pc performance. In this case of course there is little point in slotting in a faster proc as the OCed part is already running at or beyond full tilt. To get the full speed and features out of each proc revision the subsystem must also be revised and backwards compatibility is quite often too expensive to implement satisfactorily, ie the law of diminishing returns cuts in. I wonder if some of the Phenoms issues are rooted in AMD's 939 to 940 debacle. I think this move hurt AMD much more than the current Phenom issue. Here the the subsystem change over from DDR to DDR2 was extremely expensive for very little performance gain. A lot of us 939 users didn't take up AM2 platforms and used partners like ASROCK to carry over RAM and expensive high performance AGP cards. Only problem was they were only available on 775 platforms, so guess what happened?

 

[Nemesis 1]

I really love the fact that Intel is going with 3 sockets. As an enthusist and forum member . I have taken part in and read much about IMC Vs FSB . Well intel is going to offer a chip that comes in 3 flavors. So we as a community are going to see all 3 platiforms compared time and time again. Many Questions well be ans. But for me the big thing is this.

The way intel has set this up and it is Brillant and FAIR!

The Performance CPU that cost $$$$. Will not be overcome by the other 2 sockets in this arramgement. Top end will be TOP end. I like it. IF intels Socket 715 without IMC for Nehahem Clobbers What ever AMD has .

Intel can set up a Cheap legit bottom end to compete $$ with AMDS lowend while destroyng their topend at the same time.

Than with Socket 1160 Intel can catter to the majority of performance users. AT a higher cost to customer.

Finnally socket 1366 Finelly a preium priced product that will actually add value to this over priced segment. SO buyer will actually be getting something for the big bucks$$ . That the lower priced parts can't make up for.

 

[zsdersw]

Many of the same people who complain about needing a different motherboard because of a version or socket change will also be the same people who would buy a new motherboard because it has a newer southbridge, or is of a cooler color, or has better overclocking options, etc. Hypocrites, all of them.

 

[undeclared]

Just a thought..

I'm on a quad core PC, and I can't take advantage of my 4 cores.. Putting 8 cores? Guess what, even less advantage.

It's a "wow" factor, but really totally absolutely useless unless you're running a server on it, regardless of how it's marketed as if it was a gamer setup.

If I had to do it again, I'd buy an E6850, although my Q6600 is plenty fine as is, and that's why I'm not doing it (more than good enough performance across the board)

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Zap
Actually if you guys want to talk about long-lived motherboards... how about the Abit BH6? It started with the Pentium II 233MHz and ended (with a Slot-T adaptor) with 1.4GHz Pentium III. This spanned several years and across TEN different Intel code-named processors:

Covington (Celeron)
Mendocino (Celeron)
Coppermine-128 (Celeron)
Tualatin-256 (Celeron)
Katmai (Pentium III)
Coppermine (Pentium III)
Coppermine-T (Pentium III)
Tualatin (Pentium III)
Klamath (Pentium II)
Deschutes (Pentium II)

Okay, if we were to weed out chips that were really similar... this removes all the Celeron chips, the Coppermine-T and the Katmai. That still leaves us with:

Klamath - 2.8v 35µm process
Deschutes - 2.0v 25µm process
Coppermine - 1.6-1.75v 18µm process
Tualatin - 1.45v 13µm process

That's four distinct processes and voltage designs.

As for Intel changing stuff, well, they probably don't cry too much when people end up having to buy another Intel chipset motherboard to go with that new Intel processor. Think about it.

I loved my BH6's...dam thanks for bringing back such good memories! Man those were the good'old days of overclocking.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: zsdersw
Many of the same people who complain about needing a different motherboard because of a version or socket change will also be the same people who would buy a new motherboard because it has a newer southbridge, or is of a cooler color, or has better overclocking options, etc. Hypocrites, all of them.

Haha, that is true.

IMO I think it is more prudent to buy a board to go with the CPU anyways, because CPUs aren't the only things improving. New boards have new features (HD audio versus AC'97?), or can overclock better (G33/35 versus older "G" series), or has better cooling (all the nice heatpipe coolers versus little fans popular a couple years back), or more robust capacitors (solid caps these days versus you know what years past). What I can't understand is why people would want to stick with a motherboard a few years old?

I had a friend who years ago upgraded the heck out of an old socket 3 system, even going as far as getting one of those expensive upgrade chips that were in its own socket, which then popped into the original socket. He spent a lot of money, and the system was still a slow heap of crap. Would have ended up being cheaper to build a new system that would have been faster. His reasoning was that he bought the thing and didn't want it to go to waste. It also wasn't like he did the upgrades periodically over a long period of time, but he did them all in a short period (month or two).

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I loved my BH6's...dam thanks for bringing back such good memories! Man those were the good'old days of overclocking.

You're welcome. However, to me the "good ol' days" of overclocking was setting jumpers on 486 systems. Never got around to soldering clock chips on 386 systems, but my 386 was "factory overclocked" by 8%.

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: bfdd
I am seriously straight up fucking confused by whatever the fuck you were talking about. Did the OP make any sense or even read the link he linked? Where does it say they're changing sockets 3 times during the life span? They're going to be for different applications. God reading the OPs post made my head hurt.

but the fact that remains is, the current sockets wont hold up.

Meaning, whatever you get now for penryn wont be used for neha.


So that means whatever dream rig you build now, thats the end of its lifespan. :\


So i figure he got his message across. Also the 3 sockets listed on that article could mean:

Server Platform
Desktop Platform
Mobile platform.


Neither of which are the current socket which are out today. Oh wellz....

And what's wrong with that? 775 has been the intel platform for a few years now. If anyone thought Intel would drastically change their architecture and not come up with a new socket then wtf? Also, I too believe they're for mobile, desktop, and server sockets. I see nothing wrong with this as long as it's not like a Low-End Nehalem is 715, but midrange cpus require a 1160, and the uber high end are 1366. I highly doubt that will happen, and like you said it's probably server,desktop,mobile. Either way I'm not caring all that much. As much as I want a skulltrail and I know you do too Aigomorla, I think we're better off waiting and seeing what Nehalem has to offer. I can wait a year or so can you?

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: EdzAviator

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: EdzAviator
<<<<why can't intel standardized their socket platform like amd..current AM2 are still compatible with Phenom....Am2+ are compatible with upcoming 45nm AMD..
future AM3 proc are also compatible w/ AM2+ mobos coz AM3 proc hav DDR2 & DDR3 controller...

Yeah, you're right, AMD has only had three mandatory chipset changes in the past 2½ years, with the fourth coming in the next 6 months. And how many has Intel had in the last 2½ years? Oh that's right, they've had two that were mandatory. Wow, Intel sucks compared to AMD, don't they?:roll:

I'm not talking all about sockets...Its upgradability that matters...If AMD can just drop in Phenom(AM2+) on AM2 mobo then why can't INTEL do that..??? If AMD can make future Phenom(AM3) have DDR2 & DDR3 on the same chip so that you can drop in any time on any AM2+ mobo then why can't intel do that...???

It's ok that intel change socket for nehalem but a 3 socket for 1 the same processor is absurd...Why can't they make a nehalem with that supports both DDR2 & DDR3 so that if you ugrade to a DDR3, you wouldn't have to change both mobo & processor (you can simply buy a DDR3 mobo for nehalem & DDR3 ram but retain the processor)..??

Ok you're a either a moron or a troll. First off the Phenom was created to compete against the C2D. Intel already had their upgrade path it was P4 and P4D's using s775 and guess what? C2D used s775 also! OH WOW! And guess what? Not all but some of those older motherboards that were out before the C2D came out were capable of running C2Ds with a bios flash!!! Isn't that neat? Give me a break dude they already offered an upgrade path ONCE on the 775 socket, this is a drastically NEW architecture compared to what Intel is currently offereing with the memory controller on board, they HAVE to change sockets.

 

[zach0624]

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: EdzAviator

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: EdzAviator
<<<<<<why can't intel standardized their socket platform like amd..current AM2 are still compatible with Phenom....Am2+ are compatible with upcoming 45nm AMD..
future AM3 proc are also compatible w/ AM2+ mobos coz AM3 proc hav DDR2 & DDR3 controller...

Yeah, you're right, AMD has only had three mandatory chipset changes in the past 2½ years, with the fourth coming in the next 6 months. And how many has Intel had in the last 2½ years? Oh that's right, they've had two that were mandatory. Wow, Intel sucks compared to AMD, don't they?:roll:

I'm not talking all about sockets...Its upgradability that matters...If AMD can just drop in Phenom(AM2+) on AM2 mobo then why can't INTEL do that..??? If AMD can make future Phenom(AM3) have DDR2 & DDR3 on the same chip so that you can drop in any time on any AM2+ mobo then why can't intel do that...???

It's ok that intel change socket for nehalem but a 3 socket for 1 the same processor is absurd...Why can't they make a nehalem with that supports both DDR2 & DDR3 so that if you ugrade to a DDR3, you wouldn't have to change both mobo & processor (you can simply buy a DDR3 mobo for nehalem & DDR3 ram but retain the processor)..??

Ok you're a either a moron or a troll. First off the Phenom was created to compete against the C2D. Intel already had their upgrade path it was P4 and P4D's using s775 and guess what? C2D used s775 also! OH WOW! And guess what? Not all but some of those older motherboards that were out before the C2D came out were capable of running C2Ds with a bios flash!!! Isn't that neat? Give me a break dude they already offered an upgrade path ONCE on the 775 socket, this is a drastically NEW architecture compared to what Intel is currently offereing with the memory controller on board, they HAVE to change sockets.

This thread of his got lockedlink