Question Intel's future after Pat Gelsinger

[DavidC1]

They designed a system so bad that they have hundreds of unresolved tickets open and they were asking everybody for patience in the financial industry that they managed to make a mess of with their proposed product. Don't want to go into too much detail because I don't want any blowback in my real life for speaking out the truth. This is an absolutely dumb and desperate "corporate" move by LBT.

Yea and imagine what happens to Intel when the AI hype train crashes in a ball of flaming fire that makes 2001 dot-com bubble look like a picnic on Saturday?

Where is this amazing engineer that fixes the mistakes pat made?

 

[igor_kavinski]

It took removal of 3 bean counters and putting 1 engineer in charge to fix this mess

Sorry. That engineer wasn't bright enough. He should've stuck to engineering rather than trying to save a company. You don't hire me when you have a medical emergency. Even I would not recommend that despite my above average understanding of most medical matters. I'm not trained by professionals so no one should hire me to save someone's life. Ditto for Gelsinger. He was the wrong person for the job. Would've worked better as a CTO.

 

[511]

Sorry. That engineer wasn't bright enough. He should've stuck to engineering rather than trying to save a company. You don't hire me when you have a medical emergency. Even I would not recommend that despite my above average understanding of most medical matters. I'm not trained by professionals so no one should hire me to save someone's life. Ditto for Gelsinger. He was the wrong person for the job. Would've worked better as a CTO.

you are a one man army you just need Jim Keller to save Intel 🤣

 

[igor_kavinski]

you are a one man army you just need Jim Keller to save Intel 🤣

Sadly, even he can't help Intel now. He's in bad shape health-wise. Best outcome for Intel right now (if thinking very narrowly) is for AMD and Intel to merge and spin off the fabs as a separate entity.

And yes, I'm Iron Man. Without the suit. Without the mega industrial empire. I'm just one man with a mission and a laptop. Change the world. Make it better. Are you with me?

Pentium 4 10 GHz FTW.

If you are not with me, you are against me.

*switches lightsaber on*

 

[511]

Sadly, even he can't help Intel now. He's in bad shape health-wise. Best outcome for Intel right now (if thinking very narrowly) is for AMD and Intel to merge and spin off the fabs as a separate entity.

Should not happen tbh and best outcome for Intel is to get some good foundry customer for 18AP/14A.

 

[igor_kavinski]

18AP/14A.

You really believe any company will seriously consider Intel after their Intel 7 oxidation, Intel 4 hot lots and Raptor Lake degradation bad publicity and delays? Those problems speak of a company where the head is running in one direction, the hands in another and the legs in a completely different direction from the other two body parts. No one will pay Intel serious money and bet their horses on Intel for something critical. They will pay charity money so Intel can keep the lights on. Does Intel want that? They flippin' better do because their survival depends on it.

 

[Io Magnesso]

You really believe any company will seriously consider Intel after their Intel 7 oxidation, Intel 4 hot lots and Raptor Lake degradation bad publicity and delays? Those problems speak of a company where the head is running in one direction, the hands in another and the legs in a completely different direction from the other two body parts. No one will pay Intel serious money and bet their horses on Intel for something critical. They will pay charity money so Intel can keep the lights on. Does Intel want that? They flippin' better do because their survival depends on it.

Raptor Lake's degradation problem is a clock tree control algorithm problem.
As a result of the high voltage flowing out of sight at all times, the wiring is cut off.
I don't think there was a problem with the "Intel 7" itself.
Certainly, I've heard that the Intel 7 wafers, which had failed wiring, were confirmed.
It is said that it has already been processed at the inspection stage.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah, well, I need a 14900KS to check for myself. Please ask your Intel friends to supply me with one free of charge for my unbiased appraisal of the situation.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Yeah, well, I need a 14900KS to check for myself. Please ask your Intel friends to supply me with one free of charge for my unbiased appraisal of the situation.

It's a pity, I don't have a Raptor Lake
However, I have the same Alder Lake Core i7 12700K made by the same Intel 7 process.

 

[511]

You really believe any company will seriously consider Intel after their Intel 7 oxidation, Intel 4 hot lots and Raptor Lake degradation bad publicity and delays?

First Intel 7 oxidation is not a process issue and regarding hot lots you can run hot lots if you pay good enough.

As it turns out, Intel did have an early manufacturing flaw in the enhanced version of the Intel 7 process node used to build Raptor Lake. According to a post made by Intel to Reddit this afternoon, a “via Oxidation manufacturing issue” was addressed in 2023.

So it was a process issue unique to raptor lake I take back what I said.

Raptor Lake degradation it's mostly on design if ARL Suddenly starts consuming 1.6V core voltage it will kill itself like Raptor Lake do you think it's TSMC fault than?

Those problems speak of a company where the head is running in one direction, the hands in another and the legs in a completely different direction from the other two body parts. No one will pay Intel serious money and bet their horses on Intel for something critical. They will pay charity money so Intel can keep the lights on. Does Intel want that? They flippin' better do because their survival depends on it.

They will lol if you want cheap deals everyone loves making money and saving money at the same time.

 

[Thunder 57]

First Intel 7 oxidation is not a process issue and regarding hot lots you can run hot lots if you pay good enough.

So it was a process issue unique to raptor lake I take back what I said.

Raptor Lake degradation it's mostly on design if ARL Suddenly starts consuming 1.6V core voltage it will kill itself like Raptor Lake do you think it's TSMC fault than?


They will lol if you want cheap deals everyone loves making money and saving money at the same time.

Why haven't we seen anyone jump on 18A then?

 

[511]

Why haven't we seen anyone jump on 18A then?

Most company went with N2 before 18A PDK were released and 18A initial PDK were very bad it took them to sort out and they are late better to go to a superior process in N2 vs 18A.

Also 18A doesn't address Mobile People cause it has too many missing stuff

 

[Io Magnesso]

First Intel 7 oxidation is not a process issue and regarding hot lots you can run hot lots if you pay good enough.

So it was a process issue unique to raptor lake I take back what I said.

Raptor Lake degradation it's mostly on design if ARL Suddenly starts consuming 1.6V core voltage it will kill itself like Raptor Lake do you think it's TSMC fault than?


They will lol if you want cheap deals everyone loves making money and saving money at the same time.

However, the "via oxidation manufacturing issue" itself was detected by inspection before the problematic wafers and chips were on the market, and were dealt with.
I think we can deal with it before the problem spreads outside the company.
In that respect, it's still decent
Personally, I wouldn't say that the 10nm or later process is not a problem. I think it's solid to some extent
Of course it's better than Samsung.

 

[Hitman928]

However, the "via oxidation manufacturing issue" itself was detected by inspection before the problematic wafers and chips were on the market, and were dealt with.
I think we can deal with it before the problem spreads outside the company.
In that respect, it's still decent
Personally, I wouldn't say that the 10nm or later process is not a problem. I think it's solid to some extent
Of course it's better than Samsung.

There were chips with the oxidation issue in the open market for quite some time.

 

[511]

There were chips with the oxidation issue in the open market for quite some time.

Yup RPL was launched in Q4 22 some processor must have made their way into market the quantity wouldn't be as big as the count of raptor lake CPU Failures though.

 

[Io Magnesso]

There were chips with the oxidation issue in the open market for quite some time.

Of course, there may be some initial defects.
I will not deny it
It's possible that it didn't go to the market at all.
I don't know the truth because the Raptor Lake problem overlapped with the topic
Only Intel knows the truth
Well, Raptor's uniform warranty period has been extended to 5 years, so even if you encounter it, you can get a replacement.
Well, I don't know if it's an oxidation problem or if it's caused by the deterioration of Raptor Lake's clock tree unless I use precision equipment.

 

[igor_kavinski]

First Intel 7 oxidation is not a process issue and regarding hot lots you can run hot lots if you pay good enough.

Pat specifically said that the hot lots caused the fab losses.

 

[511]

Pat specifically said that the hot lots caused the fab losses.

Well the other side would be loosing customer orders it was their choice

 

[Hitman928]

Of course, there may be some initial defects.
I will not deny it
It's possible that it didn't go to the market at all.
I don't know the truth because the Raptor Lake problem overlapped with the topic
Only Intel knows the truth
Well, Raptor's uniform warranty period has been extended to 5 years, so even if you encounter it, you can get a replacement.
Well, I don't know if it's an oxidation problem or if it's caused by the deterioration of Raptor Lake's clock tree unless I use precision equipment.

Intel admitted that defective products were still in the market for over a year after the oxidation issue was discovered.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Intel admitted that defective products were still in the market for over a year after the oxidation issue was discovered.

Has the problem been fixed?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Intel admitted that defective products were still in the market for over a year after the oxidation issue was discovered.

Thanks for correcting the misinformation, as it runs rampant if left unchecked. Those CPUs were still on shelves in early 2024. The 5 year warranty might give some the warm fuzzies, but it is no consolation when your time is money workflow goes to zero because your CPU is broken. That warranty isn't going to cover your lost revenue. It isn't going to get back those lost evenings and weekends gaming with your friends while waiting for the replacement either. It's just dumb talking points and cope, and I was hoping we were past that now.

Tan looks to be following SOP for cost cutting. It also was a good move, sending a message to the workers that design and build the products, that they are going to be treated with the deference and importance they deserve. And that a lot of the systemic issues interfering with their work and progress are being removed.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Thanks for correcting the misinformation, as it runs rampant if left unchecked. Those CPUs were still on shelves in early 2024. The 5 year warranty might give some the warm fuzzies, but it is no consolation when your time is money workflow goes to zero because your CPU is broken. That warranty isn't going to cover your lost revenue. It isn't going to get back those lost evenings and weekends gaming with your friends while waiting for the replacement either. It's just dumb talking points and cope, and I was hoping we were past that now.

Tan looks to be following SOP for cost cutting. It also was a good move, sending a message to the workers that design and build the products, that they are going to be treated with the deference and importance they deserve. And that a lot of the systemic issues interfering with their work and progress are being removed.

Sorry for the misunderstanding
I misunderstood because the discovery of the oxidation problem of Intel 7 was just around the same time as the Raptor Lake problem.
I have a question, is Raptor Lake-Refresh shipped after 2024, is this Intel 7 oxidation problem?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Sorry for the misunderstanding
I misunderstood because the discovery of the oxidation problem of Intel 7 was just around the same time as the Raptor Lake problem.
I have a question, is Raptor Lake-Refresh shipped after 2024, is this Intel 7 oxidation problem?

We have a thread on the issues chock-a-block with the chronology of issues, events, and information. If you read it, one of the things you will discover, is that Intel has failed at full disclosure.

 

[511]

No one knows actually what is the real issue beside Intel cause we just had another microcode looks like broken design for P cores btw are E cores affected as well with this issue did someone has to tone down E core clocks?

 

[Io Magnesso]

We have a thread on the issues chock-a-block with the chronology of issues, events, and information. If you read it, one of the things you will discover, is that Intel has failed at full disclosure.

Well, I understand that Intel has neglected to disclose information.
However, when the oxidation problem of the manufacturing process was announced, the Raptor problem I was confused because it was the same as the information disclosure of
I understand that the root cause of Raptor Lake's 13/14 generation problem is different from the oxidation problem.