Intel's "Divide and rule" vs Amd's "Keep it together"

[ajaidevsingh]

Intel is quite a clever company...

See Intel uses LGA1366 for high end next gen processor's and LGA1160 for Mid and low end processor's. Now if suppose you want to go from mid end to high end you have to change you M/B and processor if not the RAM, etc.

Price wise going from P55 to X58 would be heavy on your wallet let alone Havendale to Bloomfield... "I know you do gain a lot with x58 but at what cost |3 ch. RAM was a bust|"

If we were to see this in a reversed perspective going to a Havendale / Lynnfield for some features that Bloomfield did not have, you will have to buy a new M/B period.

If we look towards AMD they not only use the same socket "AM3" for high,mid and low end but also are backwards compatible with "AM2,AM2+"

For people who say that AMD cant touch the LGA1366 processes so the LGA1366 is above high end. But i am not talking about AMD's high end vs Intel's. I am talking offcourse about companies high,mid and low ends respectively...

 

[Phynaz]

What?

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: Phynaz
What?

I got what he's saying. Try re-reading until you comprehend.

 

[Twsmit]

I'm not sure I like Intel's approach. AMD for a variety of reasons went with multiple platforms during the launch of K8 (s940/s754) and we all saw that ultimately fail. Time will tell if Intel gets this right or wrong.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Isnt intel's low end going to be LGA715? so LGA1366 high end, LGA1160 mid end, and LGA 715 low end. LGA775 acts as a filler til the last two is ready for launch.

I think a unified approach is better. Its more flexible for the user.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I prefer Amds approach.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I prefer Amds approach.

You mean praying for a 200mhz OC, as opposed to buying a E7300 and getting performance equal to a $1499 chip? Penryn isnt going anywhere for a while.

 

[Idontcare]

I'm not sure just how many people are actually impacted by Intel's strategy.

How many folks buy new CPU's but stick with their 1+ yr old mobo?

Or vice versa...how many people really buy a new mobo but stick with their 1+ yr old CPU?

Let's be realistic here. Intel is doing this to make more money by reducing their costs for the lower end gear (fewer pins, cheaper mobos, etc).

Of 100% of the desktop market (including corporate and home units) what percentage is DIY people who actually buy and assemble their own PC's? Maybe 5%?

And of that 5% how many are going to bother buying a low-end Nehalem when they could buy a high-end Penryn for the same money come Q4/09 when the LGA1160 platform ships?

This is an academic argument, pointless in reality for all but a minor percentage of DIY folks. Hardly a cunning plan on Intel's behalf to screw a couple thousand folks over in a market with 20 million units per annum. More like a cunning plan to reduce the chip cost on their end by $2 which adds up over a few million units they plan to ship to HP and DELL.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
And of that 5% how many are going to bother buying a low-end Nehalem when they could buy a high-end Penryn for the same money come Q4/09 when the LGA1160 platform ships?

Q4 09 is when Bloomfield (is that the mid-range?) is coming?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I prefer Amds approach.

You mean praying for a 200mhz OC, as opposed to buying a E7300 and getting performance equal to a $1499 chip? Penryn isnt going anywhere for a while.

I didn't say anything about performance, I was talking about AMD's socket strategy. Oh, wait, I forget, every post for you is some sort of AMD vs Intel performance war.

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I'm not sure just how many people are actually impacted by Intel's strategy.

How many folks buy new CPU's but stick with their 1+ yr old mobo?

Or vice versa...how many people really buy a new mobo but stick with their 1+ yr old CPU?

Let's be realistic here. Intel is doing this to make more money by reducing their costs for the lower end gear (fewer pins, cheaper mobos, etc).

Of 100% of the desktop market (including corporate and home units) what percentage is DIY people who actually buy and assemble their own PC's? Maybe 5%?

And of that 5% how many are going to bother buying a low-end Nehalem when they could buy a high-end Penryn for the same money come Q4/09 when the LGA1160 platform ships?

This is an academic argument, pointless in reality for all but a minor percentage of DIY folks. Hardly a cunning plan on Intel's behalf to screw a couple thousand folks over in a market with 20 million units per annum. More like a cunning plan to reduce the chip cost on their end by $2 which adds up over a few million units they plan to ship to HP and DELL.

It is probably more of a way to lower development cost for AMD, and a way to keep people using their platform if they don't need to purchase a whole new computer when they upgrade or fix their old one. This really tells me more about Intel's lack of respect for AMD, as they make it easier to throw away their whole platform for the competition. This tells me that they aren't making decisions based on their competition anymore, so I would say they don't really believe they have any real competition anymore. Intel only made a stable socket platform when they felt they had competition before, since this is pretty much what they did before S775 was introduced. This move makes it seem like the last nail in AMD's coffin is more of a forgone conclusion that I knew about. I guess I should have paid more attention to Intel's plans for their future platforms, or I wouldn't have gotten as excited about Deneb as I did.

 

[aigomorla]

in most tasks AMD cant even beat the yorkfield lineup.

So why are you comparing AMD with I7 when it has a hard enough time competing against a yorkfield alone?

Price difference, yeah hugh, but thats what you get for stepping top of the line intel to AMD.

Its like you driving a honda civic and asking well i want a S65 but i dont want the AMG package or the high premium.

As much as you guys want to rationalize and rant about the i7, the raw basic facts is, your either getting one or not.

Theres no point in complaining about the lineup or price, it either fits your niche or not.

And under most users condition a AMD X2 is powerful enough, but greed is what makes people go for the 4ghz quadcore or the i7.

So people trying to rationalize the upgrade, its funny.

As i said, you already know if your getting it or not. There is no rationlization involved. [i7 is PURE e-penis / greed if you dont belong in the server/enterprise sector]

Its like SLI. 80% of the SLI / Xfire users get both cards at the getgo. The other 20% that say they will add annother card in the future have a less then 2% chance of upgrading in the future.

Same thing with neha, the ones who will get it will get it. The others will wait until they have no choice but to get it or jump AMD.

 

[Phynaz]

The mistake you are making correlating socket compatability to system compatability. Just becuase you can plug in a cpu doesn't mean it works.

AMD hyped socket compatability when X2 came out. The result was that X2 would properly function in <50% of existing machines.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: thilan29
Q4 09 is when Bloomfield (is that the mid-range?) is coming?

LGA1366 Bloomfield ships now (Q4/08). LGA1160 Havendale has recently slipped from Q2 to Q3 2009...I'm adding my own expectation that a Q3/09 "ship" means Q4/09 "purchaseable at Newegg".

My argument here is that when LGA1160 becomes an option (the author's lament) people who buy LGA1160 will be buying dual-core Nehalems for that platform when they likely can buy today's high-end quad-core (Q9650) for super cheap at that time (this is a year from now after all) and use it on a cheap P35/P45 mobo with cheap DDR2 that they probably already own.

Originally posted by: Martimus
It is probably more of a way to lower development cost for AMD, and a way to keep people using their platform if they don't need to purchase a whole new computer when they upgrade or fix their old one. This really tells me more about Intel's lack of respect for AMD, as they make it easier to throw away their whole platform for the competition. This tells me that they aren't making decisions based on their competition anymore, so I would say they don't really believe they have any real competition anymore. Intel only made a stable socket platform when they felt they had competition before, since this is pretty much what they did before S775 was introduced.

I not going to agree with this line of thinking for one reason - I believe what Intel has done with the Bloomfield/LGA1366 line is that they have not so much created a new desktop segment as they have intentionally grayed the area between XEON/Server platforms and their high-end desktop platform.

LGA1160 could be the desktop platform they were going to release all along, and LGA1366 could have been the planned server platform all along...but the crossover Bloomfield for desktop was created specifically to address the high-end DIY enthousiasts who wanted those top-dollar server features (triple channel DDR3, OC'able bus, etc) on their desktop builds. Don't want them, then don't buy them.

Just as Skulltrail is a cross-over of the dual-socket server platform with an eye on the desktop market...don't want it? Don't buy it. Doesn't mean Intel is intentionally screwing over DIY low-end builders and doesn't mean they've given up on AMD continuing to represent a gross margins erosion issue.

I'm sure AMD would do this too were there some distinguishing features of their Shanghai platform that the enthusiasts lusted after (and were willing to pay for) on top-end desktop builds. Not having those differentiating desirable features certainly streamlines the AMD platform lineup and lower complexity should mean lower cost for someone in the supply chain (and perhaps the end-user as well).

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I'm sure AMD would do this too were there some distinguishing features of their Shanghai platform that the enthusiasts lusted after (and were willing to pay for) on top-end desktop builds. Not having those differentiating desirable features certainly streamlines the AMD platform lineup and lower complexity should mean lower cost for someone in the supply chain (and perhaps the end-user as well).

They are considering bringing back the FX platform with Deneb/Shanghai, so maybe they will do that. But the only real difference between the two is the hypertransport bandwidth - at least with the little knowledge I have of the architecture.

 

[ajaidevsingh]

This is no speed war ladies and gentlemen "Well all gentlemen"

I had initially stated that this topic is about cpu sockets and their impact on other components.

BTW m/b like ASUS P5N32E SLI were wonder full and reusable with newer processes....!!!

 

[nyker96]

What I want to know is why Intel's implementing an overclock lock on LGA1160!?

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: nyker96
What I want to know is why Intel's implementing an overclock lock on LGA1160!?

To force enthusiasts into the more expensive 1366 platform, of course.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: nyker96
What I want to know is why Intel's implementing an overclock lock on LGA1160!?

To force enthusiasts into the more expensive 1366 platform, of course.

Force is such an ugly way to state it.

Synergizing the end-user's computing experience and wallet with robust shareholder equity enhancement activity is the preferred explanation.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Phynaz
The mistake you are making correlating socket compatability to system compatability. Just becuase you can plug in a cpu doesn't mean it works.

AMD hyped socket compatability when X2 came out. The result was that X2 would properly function in <50% of existing machines.

Like any new CPU, it needed BIOS upgrades. Big deal.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Like any new CPU, it needed BIOS upgrades. Big deal.

That was true with Skt 939, but what about Phenom? There are still only a couple of AM2 boards that will run a Phenom reliably, and then only if you don't want to overclock.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: Phynaz
The mistake you are making correlating socket compatability to system compatability. Just becuase you can plug in a cpu doesn't mean it works.

AMD hyped socket compatability when X2 came out. The result was that X2 would properly function in <50% of existing machines.

Like any new CPU, it needed BIOS upgrades. Big deal.

That was after the BIOS upgrades.

 

[faxon]

wait so intel is forcing enthusiasts to pay top dollar now for the performance they could originally net with a cheap board and chip? thats pretty damn lame, one of the reasons intel makes so much money now among enthusiasts is the ones buying budget systems and OCing the hell out of them. if intel does this they are going to probably loose a lot of money to AMD if their chips are anything near competitive in this market sector, since as far as we know they wont have this problem. plus, if they want to upgrade to a higher grade chip later, they will be using the EXACT SAME socket, so they wont have to spend more than the cost of the new chip to do the upgrade. win/win for amd IMO

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: faxon
wait so intel is forcing enthusiasts to pay top dollar now for the performance they could originally net with a cheap board and chip? thats pretty damn lame, one of the reasons intel makes so much money now among enthusiasts is the ones buying budget systems and OCing the hell out of them. if intel does this they are going to probably loose a lot of money to AMD if their chips are anything near competitive in this market sector, since as far as we know they wont have this problem. plus, if they want to upgrade to a higher grade chip later, they will be using the EXACT SAME socket, so they wont have to spend more than the cost of the new chip to do the upgrade. win/win for amd IMO

I agree. It's the dumbest move Intel has made in quite a few years now. Sure, we overclockers are a very tiny segment of the PC buying population. They know that. What they keep forgetting, though, is that we are also the people who make ~75% of the recommendations as to what the rest of the world spends their PC dollar on. If we say "buy AMD", Intel will be selling shitloads less processors.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: faxon
wait so intel is forcing enthusiasts to pay top dollar now for the performance they could originally net with a cheap board and chip? thats pretty damn lame, one of the reasons intel makes so much money now among enthusiasts is the ones buying budget systems and OCing the hell out of them. if intel does this they are going to probably loose a lot of money to AMD if their chips are anything near competitive in this market sector, since as far as we know they wont have this problem. plus, if they want to upgrade to a higher grade chip later, they will be using the EXACT SAME socket, so they wont have to spend more than the cost of the new chip to do the upgrade. win/win for amd IMO

I agree. It's the dumbest move Intel has made in quite a few years now. Sure, we overclockers are a very tiny segment of the PC buying population. They know that. What they keep forgetting, though, is that we are also the people who make ~75% of the recommendations as to what the rest of the world spends their PC dollar on. If we say "buy AMD", Intel will be selling shitloads less processors.

Your full of it . Its a brillant move by intel . Your talking like the performance models will cost $1500 to build . Sorry thats BS.

Intel did smart here. Keep the performance. What all of the sudden penryn disappears. The lower models of IC7 should be able to compete with AMDS High end. I don't care if 45nm is 30% faster . It aint near enough . But hay you will see that yourself . I will remind ya after ya see the good reviews OK!

3 sockets 3 markets . genius. Look at that crappy ATOM they can't make em fast enough . Intels Cost per chip $6. YA . the retards at Intel haven't a clue do they.