Intel Windows 8 tabs to start at 600 USD?

[poofyhairguy]

It has an i5 processor and plenty of RAM

Yeah, that is great. Problem is that an i5 eats battery like a shark eats meat, and the future of Windows Tablets is not i5s it is Atoms which are as weak as my Android tablet.

This $600 tablet, and the future of x86 on "Mobile Devices" is low-power Atom-based chipsets. The dream of having your desktop's power on a competitive tablet is far enough away to be classified as sci-fi. Intel has to compete with ARM at its own game to survive, just like MS now has to compete with Android and iOS.

The entry fee just isn't going to be sub $600 unless the Win 8 devices are trying to make yet another blown up iPod/phone.

Let me guess, you never thought netbooks would be successful either, right?

Truth is an iPad or heck even a smartphone does 97% of what an average person does on a computer anyway. Unless Wintel can compete in the sub-$500 bracket it is doomed to fail. MS and Intel know this.

I don't care about touch-screens, nor does anyone else who uses a tablet PC for actual billable work. Once more, the fact that people compare a TabletPC to an iPod's touch screen means that people aren't getting this is a whole different animal. If there's no pen input and wacom digitizer, then the Win8 Tablets FAIL. That's all there is to it. Touchscreens are great in the ecosystem you describe, but they are not the equal of a pen/wacom setup which allows for a level of control over things like drawing, painting, photo editing/retouching, handwriting, etc. that no iPad comes close to.

The videos of Windows 8 must have made you cry then. It is obvious that MS is going for all in to be compatible with these touch screens you say no one cares about. The Metro interface is obvious meant to be finger driven and not stylus driven.

Trying to use an iPad for the same desktop tasks is a joke- I've seen people try it and fail miserably because it's not the same thing. You're NOT doing real drawing or animation or photo/video editing at a pro level on a freakin' iPad, I don't care what nonsense anyone spouts about it.

I would say trying to use a tablet for high-end work when a desktop does it much better is the real fail.


Fact is, what you want is not a real robust market. It is a niche- a higher-end niche with prices to match. Eventually thanks to Moore's law eventually regular Atoms and ARMs will do the job for you thanks to gradual increases in raw power, but what you want from the market today was deemed to be a huge failure and the market is moving in the opposite direction.

The reason Apple sold tens of millions of iPad and even more iPad apps is because it is exactly what most people want. There is a reason the name for the average Joe in marketing is consumer, not producer. Most people want to consume, and finger-driven touch interfaces are at the heart of that.

In fact, those interfaces and surrounding hardware has been so successful that now Intel and MS are forced to compete on those terms. So we have Atom SoCs and Windows 8 with a Metro UI seemingly ripped straight off the phones.

This $600 tablet isn't what you want. Neither is the entire upcoming generation of tablets from what we have seen. What you want apparently exists in the market now, albeit at a higher price. You should grab one of those while you can to vote with your dollars for your niche to make sure it remains a niche in the future.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

Who in their right mind wants to do photoshop on a tablet? People buy uber expensive 27 inch IPS screens just for photoshop but somehow they are going to start doing work on a 10 inch tablet with 1200x800 resolution?

 

[Zaap]

I don't disagree with you, just I disagree that MS should follow everyone else down the path of trying to be yet another iPad clone. That's FAIL that's not just waiting to happen, but already has.

If being an earner/producer, instead of just another spender/consumer is a niche, I'm happy to occupy it. So are other professionals. Thankfully, there are still enough of us obviously that Asus, Motion and others keep selling useful products. Motion's J3500 is a full on i7 computer that can do anything a desktop workstation can. But it must be a failure because when it was released there wasn't a music video and a bunch of geeks waiting in line to play Angry Birds on it.

Joe Blow spender/consumer driving the market will be fine for iToys and eReaders and all the other crap. But when Joe Blow gets the wrong medication because his healthcare provider was using an iToy that couldn't access a massive medical database fast enough, or his house falls on his head because the contractor used iPretend rather than an actual CAD app to design it, etc. etc. maybe the industry will get back to catering to pros that actually do things correctly and understand that quality hardware costs a few bucks more than toys do.

 

[Zaap]

Who in their right mind wants to do photoshop on a tablet? People buy uber expensive 27 inch IPS screens just for photoshop but somehow they are going to start doing work on a 10 inch tablet with 1200x800 resolution?

Plenty of people that realize that cameras are even more portable than computers. What rock have some people been living under to not know that many professions are mobile and have been for some time?

Next up the "argument" that no one does photoshop on a laptop or tablet running a full desktop OS, but somehow an iPad wannabe running "Make Believe Photoshop" at 1024 × 768 is JUST what they need!

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

Plenty of people that realize that cameras are even more portable than computers. What rock have some people been living under to not know that many professions are mobile and have been for some time?

Next up the "argument" that no one does photoshop on a laptop or tablet running a full desktop OS, but somehow an iPad wannabe running "Make Believe Photoshop" at 1024 × 768 is JUST what they need!

Mobile? The Asus Eee Slate you keep mentioning lasts roughly 2 hours if all you do is browse the internet. Yet you somehow think its going to work as a mobile platform? Having to connect it to a wall charger 24/7 doesnt make it anymore mobile than a regular laptop or even desktop

I know plenty of people who use photoshop in their profession. Most of them use laptops. None of them use the laptop screen because 99,9% of them are crap. If you use photoshop as part of your job, you use a high quality desktop monitor. Otherwise its just a hobby

Anyway the argument is moot because the tablets mentioned in the article will be running Intel Atom, good luck running Photoshop on those

 

[Bateluer]

The W8 tablets this article is referring to will be those of the Medfield/Atom variety. Its not referring to the more powerful Windows 7 toting i5 ULV tablets, which, by the way, get several hours of battery life. Intel's ULV line is pretty damn good there.

This is where I must say 'I told you so!' Some time ago, I pointed out the existence of these tablets, which featured the more powerful ULV true x86 CPUs, that they were actually useful as a work device. And I was slapped down and flamed for saying it, because 'Apple invented the modern tablet.' Once again, other posters are now saying the exact same thing. Another victory notch on my belt.

 

[Zaap]

Some time ago, I pointed out the existence of these tablets, which featured the more powerful ULV true x86 CPUs, that they were actually useful as a work device. And I was slapped down and flamed for saying it

I would guess only by people that don't realize there are still people that use computers to do actual WORK, not just play with. I guess it's a testament to the iGeneration of 'Post PC' spender/consumers that this number must keep growing every day. For everyone else, this is a no-brainer.

As for making a $600+ Atom tablet/netbook- yes, that's going to be a FAIL. Joe Blow won't buy it, nor will Joe Pro. Netbooks succeeded because they were $200-$300 and didn't require costly elements like a decent touchscreen or pen input. I recall the makers also experimented with running Android and Linux and other OS's on it, and failed miserably as people only wanted *GASP!* that 'failed' product called Windows to run those all those 'failed' desktop applications with. Those that weren't carting around their 27" monitors with them, that is.

 

[Zaap]

Mobile? The Asus Eee Slate you keep mentioning lasts roughly 2 hours if all you do is browse the internet. Yet you somehow think its going to work as a mobile platform?

Yes, because Asus makes it just for me! So generous of them! I must be amazingly special that all these companies keep making things just for me.

So it doesn't work as a mobile platform? Even though it's been on sale just as long as the iPad 2, Asus should be alerted that it's not working, right?

 

[poofyhairguy]

Even though it's been on sale just as long as the iPad 2, Asus should be alerted that it's not working, right?

There is a reason when you search for the words "asus" and "tablet" in Google the Transformer comes up first. The Slate is a niche market product even for Asus.

 

[hans007]

i dont get how they are saying this has to be $600.

that acer windows 7 tablet with a bobcat dual core has been on sale for under $400 (and it is probably faster than the atom intel is going to use for this)

 

[Zaap]

There is a reason when you search for the words "asus" and "tablet" in Google the Transformer comes up first. The Slate is a niche market product even for Asus.

Yes, yes, I know. And as I said, they keep making them and have been selling them as long as the iPad 2 has been out, because it's a dismal failure. Companies always keep making things that fail. We got it. Someone alert Asus.

While we're at it, telegraph everyone that ultrabooks running real desktop OS's are out too. Everyone didn't get the memo, Atom netbooks are still all the rage in 2012 just like they were in 2008, and they sell even better if they run phone OS's, not those failed desktop OS's.

 

[finbarqs]

Who in their right mind wants to do photoshop on a tablet? People buy uber expensive 27 inch IPS screens just for photoshop but somehow they are going to start doing work on a 10 inch tablet with 1200x800 resolution?

I will definitely do photoshop on a tablet. If it uses something like a wacom technology over the screen.. Hell wacom has a screen on their new tabs!

http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/~/link.aspx?_id=D6274FFC6CFE4499AD10A7A3E1F5DF08&_z=z

$2,500.

That's who to compete with!

 

[poofyhairguy]

Yes, yes, I know. And as I said, they keep making them and have been selling them as long as the iPad 2 has been out, because it's a dismal failure. Companies always keep making things that fail. We got it. Someone alert Asus.

I wasn't saying it was a failure, I was saying (over and over) it was/is/and will be a niche product.

What that means in practical terms is that no real resources will be thrown at making stylus driven interfaces, and that the economies of scale won't effect this market as directly as the overall tablet market.

In the long term I expect this niche to be consumed by mainstream products- when Atoms are equal to today's i5s and when companies start to take pen inputs more seriously on their touch devices to differentiate (already happening outside Windows with the HTC Flyer and the Samsung Galaxy Note).

But the point stands that MS and Intel are not working to make your dreams come true directly, they are working to compete with the successful iPad. Which they should- if it suits the 95% of the market that is consumers of content then that is the user group that will bring more $ overall.

 

[Sloper]

If photoshop doesn't port a decent enough of app onto the iPad, another company will swoop right in and start stealing market share. The tablet will eventually be ready for content creation. Companies just need to figure out how to do it.

I base this on one thing: Manipulating by touch is more natural than clicking with a mouse.

I'm pretty sure that in 5 years, we'll laugh at how we thought tablets were for content consumption only.

 

[annomander]

Joe Blow spender/consumer driving the market will be fine for iToys and eReaders and all the other crap. But when Joe Blow gets the wrong medication because his healthcare provider was using an iToy that couldn't access a massive medical database fast enough, or his house falls on his head because the contractor used iPretend rather than an actual CAD app to design it, etc. etc. maybe the industry will get back to catering to pros that actually do things correctly and understand that quality hardware costs a few bucks more than toys do.

You're just being stupid, I have no idea how you expect anyone to take that seriously.

A specialised Medical App written for iPad will no more endanger anyone then a windows app, accessing a database will be asfast as a Windows tablet, if we want to act stupid I could very well say, a windows tablet will kill loads of people cause they can't access it due to the battery running.

As to Architects, they will jot things down on iPad/Tablets and then take it back to a desktop, they will not be designing on a tablet, no matter if its a iPad or a Windows Tablet.

People will not be using Photoshop on a windows 8 tablet anymore then they will on a iPad.

 

[finbarqs]

just like how we're laughing now on when the ipad was first announced: Insert your favorite iPad Joke Pre-Launch here ________.

 

[annomander]

If photoshop doesn't port a decent enough of app onto the iPad, another company will swoop right in and start stealing market share.

You can already get decent drawing apps for the iPad, some of them are amazing, theres one where you can tilt the layers

 

[theeedude]

I expect x86 Windows tablets to be priced to not cannibalize higher margin Wintel notebooks, that is too high for the mainstream $300-500 tablet segment. Windows on ARM and Android on x86 will be priced to compete with Android on ARM. Windows on Intel is going to be positioned and priced as a laptop alternative. Both MS and Intel need to differentiate the low end products from their cash cow PCs. MS is going to do it on hardware, ARM on the low end x86 on the high end. Intel is going to do it on software, Android on the low end, Windows on the high end. This is going to benefit ARM on Android, because the competition will be split 3 ways, Windows-ARM, Windows-Intel, and Android-Intel, and developers will stick with the entrenched player.

 

[Pliablemoose]

apple is doomed

all the corporations testing ipads now will throw them in the trash now

Quoted for truth

I'm looking forward to adding a deeply discounted fire sale Windows tablet to my collection...

 

[Zaap]

You're just being stupid, I have no idea how you expect anyone to take that seriously.

A specialised Medical App written for iPad will no more endanger anyone then a windows app, accessing a database will be asfast as a Windows tablet, if we want to act stupid I could very well say, a windows tablet will kill loads of people cause they can't access it due to the battery running.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. Almost all of the serious EMR database packages for hospitals and big medical firms run on Windows. Any look into the available software/hardware for EMR reveals that the iPad isn't yet up to par, and comes with warnings that the iPad isn't actually a PC. Also most of these big institutions aren't big on switching out systems they've had in place for years because something shiny came along that makes fanbois get all weak at the knees, they have more serious concerns to deal with.

As to Architects, they will jot things down on iPad/Tablets and then take it back to a desktop, they will not be designing on a tablet, no matter if its a iPad or a Windows Tablet.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. I first got into Motion Computing's tablets from talking to an architect friend who uses one to do CAD revisions and designs on site, right in the field. He doesn't always have time to run back to a desktop. And none of the serious CAD software he uses is available for the iPad or any other toy- he needs a real computer.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Zapp, you don't know what your talking about. I work for one of the largest health care systems, and worked for the largest in North America, they're both using Linux based emr's. My current hospital systems EMR is browser based and runs on all platforms. We've already implemented iPads in the system, they're quite useful.

Sucks to be wrong, huh?

 

[Zaap]

I wasn't saying it was a failure, I was saying (over and over) it was/is/and will be a niche product.

This point might be a big deal if there weren't plenty of these niche products with longer product lives than the iPad, still being produced, still being used. Every company must wish they had a niche product they could still sell for full price 5 years in a row and still make a profit.

Meanwhile, every other wanna-be iPad toy that comes out seems to be obsolete the very INSTANT it's announced. Anything even close to a real success seems to be few and far between.

Now we're being told that MS needs to crowd onto this same losing bandwagon with YET ANOTHER iPad-wanna-be that's too weak to compete with notebooks or existing TabletPCs, yet won't effectively take on the iPad or the few successful Android tablets either. That sounds like one choice left to me: FAIL.

What that means in practical terms is that no real resources will be thrown at making stylus driven interfaces, and that the economies of scale won't effect this market as directly as the overall tablet market.

It doesn't need a whole lot or resources thrown at it. A stylus-driven interface works practically just like having a mouse, and the practical application of it has been around since around 2003. It's just another point device, and is much more accurate than touch. (Handwriting recognition, for example, is a joke with your finger or a stubby stylus compared to an actual pressure sensitive pen.)

Part of this problem or people thinking Tablet PC/Windows automatically= iPad/iOS, I blame wholly on Microsoft. They've now convinced people that it's not possible to interact with a tablet unless you've got big stupid squares of color to click on, rather than just point a menu UI element and expect it to do what it always has. Now we see this absurdity of them splintering their own desktop OS advantage with pure silliness like the Metro UI, making people think you need to have a dumbed-down fisher price interface on a tablet to compete with other dumbed-down interfaces which are really just the end result of blowing up a touch-screen media player interface to 10".

Why, it must be impossible to click a start menu and have it open and reveal all your apps just like it always has on a computer just because you're using a pen or your finger. Oh noes! Nope, surely we need big stupid squares of color spread out across multiple screens to do the same thing. And an application menu can't possibly function the same way as it always has.

I predict the end result of watered-down Win8 will be yet another big fail for MS (they've screwed up PDAs and tablets how many times now?) because they're chasing after being a second rate iPad (which no one actually wants) rather than providing a first-rate Windows experience on mobile (which ironically, they already know how to do- Win7 is perfectly viable as a tablet OS and only needed a few more refinements, not a total fisher-price bastardizing).

In the long term I expect this niche to be consumed by mainstream products- when Atoms are equal to today's i5s and when companies start to take pen inputs more seriously on their touch devices to differentiate (already happening outside Windows with the HTC Flyer and the Samsung Galaxy Note).

I agree totally with this.

But the point stands that MS and Intel are not working to make your dreams come true directly, they are working to compete with the successful iPad. Which they should- if it suits the 95% of the market that is consumers of content then that is the user group that will bring more $ overall.

I don't know what Intel you're talking about, but the one I see was all about the Ultrabooks at CES this year. None exist to take on the iPad, rather the MacBook Air. They (like the MacBook Air) run full desktop OS's, have i3/i5/i7 processors not Atoms. All cost a hell of a lot more than the old netbooks did.

In other words, Intel by it's own actions is pushing in exactly the opposite direction than what you've been saying. I wonder if they're basing this on the needs of actual people, who don't seem to be clamoring for underpowered Atom based el-cheapo books anymore, but want to use desktop apps on a very thin/light device that even if it costs a lot more, is a lot more useful?

I wonder what would possess them to think exactly the opposite MUST automagically be true in the realm of tablets? Ohhhhhhhh wait, that's right. First rule of tablets from now on: You must copy the iPad, no matter what.

 

[Zaap]

Zapp, you don't know what your talking about. I work for one of the largest health care systems, and worked for the largest in North America, they're both using Linux based emr's. My current hospital systems EMR is browser based and runs on all platforms. We've already implemented iPads in the system, they're quite useful.

Sucks to be wrong, huh?

I didn't say iPads weren't used. They aren't dominant. I notice you didn't claim iPads were the only thing you're using. And of course Linux runs on the iPad.

Sucks when you kneejerk and lose all reading comprehension, doesn't it?

 

[Pliablemoose]

I didn't say iPads weren't used. They aren't dominant. I notice you didn't claim iPads were the only thing you're using. And of course Linux runs on the iPad.

Sucks when you kneejerk and lose all reading comprehension, doesn't it?

You said the majority of emr's are windows based...

Wrong.

 

[MrX8503]

A $600 tablet of anything isn't going to be successful. The majority of consumers would rather buy an iPad at $500 instead.

I hate how the iPad has dumbed down the tablet concept so much that even tech-oriented people that should know better now think a tablet PC is akin to an iPad. If Apple actually had a similar product, it'd be running OSX Lion and full desktop apps, not iOS.

$600 is a bargain if these tablets have full on tablet PC stats.

For an actual REAL comparison: the Asus Eee slate is $1,000+ and worth every penny since it's a REAL computer, not a toy. I haven't seen Asus complain that the Eee Slate isn't making money at that price point. If they can make a Win 8 tablet at the $600 range, it'll be a steal. Expecting a lower price is just a fantasy unless these are just toys running some horrible Metro-only 'tablet OS' which would be a giant FAIL right off the bat.

I guess you don't remember that full featured tablet PCs were a giant fail in the past. If they were any good, they would have a market. There's a reason why tablets haven't replaced laptops for real work, not sure why people continue to shoehorn tablets into real working laptops. Give it a few years.