Intel vs AMD

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: ausm

Originally posted by: Duvie
Beginner equals INtel...no brainer...get a nice intel chip and intel chipset..."And Don't think about it!!!"

Give me a break !! I would get an AMD Chip and a mobo using the via chipset anyday over intel

Ausm

Why? AMD certainly makes excellent CPUs, and VIA-based motherboards just fine, as well, but so are Intel CPUs and motherboards. So why only choose AMD instead of making your decision based on which one actually happens to be better for your needs?

 

[Super6]

Intel is probably safer first time out while AMD may be a little more challenging. I have both. If you do your homework and ask questions either is fine.

Supe

 

[Chang10is]

Originally posted by: Bovinicus
Man, this is a flame thread if I ever saw one.

lol! yeah, seriously. Here are a few factors as I see them...

- Cost/benefit: Athlon has a pretty good lead for better price/performance ratio in low to mid-end CPUs
- Ease of installation: P4 heatsink is a little easier to install. I've heard stories of several newbies putting a hole through their mobo when trying to mount a heatsink onto their Athlon
- Long term upgradability: P4 platform still has room to grow, whereas Athlon is near its end.

 

[majewski9]

Both have several advantages and disadvantages.

Intel p4 ------------> Better cooling implementation, wide fsb, and good Intel Chipsets.

AMD ----------------> Better performance, Wide range of chipsets, and very affordable.

There are a lot of rumors and myths about the two seperate choices. Personally I dont have the $$$ for the top of the line p4. I bought the Athlon Tbird 1.33ghz when it first came out for 160$. Probaly the beest 160 dollars I spent! I had several Intels before that and I dont notice any difference. I even used several Intel 440 chipsets. I dont notice any issues with stability. My fan is quite a bit nosier but acceptable and not much louder than my celly's fan. So in my educated opinion I would say that the two are equal from a performance standpoint. Intel may have faster chips out but AMD has faster and faster chips ready to strike. AMD wins hand down when u factor price.

 

[BDawg]

IMHO, this isn't a question of chip zealotry, but ease for a new builder.

I don't think anyone can argue against Intel chips being easier to install, and intel chipsets being the most stable.

For a beginner, I'd definately recommend an intel chip and a i845 chipset. If you're not planning on over clocking, get the intel board reviewed today on Anandtech.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: CrazySaint

Originally posted by: ausm

Originally posted by: Duvie
Beginner equals INtel...no brainer...get a nice intel chip and intel chipset..."And Don't think about it!!!"

Give me a break !! I would get an AMD Chip and a mobo using the via chipset anyday over intel

Ausm

Why? AMD certainly makes excellent CPUs, and VIA-based motherboards just fine, as well, but so are Intel CPUs and motherboards. So why only choose AMD instead of making your decision based on which one actually happens to be better for your needs?

uh, price?

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: CrazySaint

Originally posted by: ausm

Originally posted by: Duvie
Beginner equals INtel...no brainer...get a nice intel chip and intel chipset..."And Don't think about it!!!"

Give me a break !! I would get an AMD Chip and a mobo using the via chipset anyday over intel

Ausm

Why? AMD certainly makes excellent CPUs, and VIA-based motherboards just fine, as well, but so are Intel CPUs and motherboards. So why only choose AMD instead of making your decision based on which one actually happens to be better for your needs?

uh, price?

Oh please, if price is your only concern, then get a VIA C3

Yes, if price was the primary consideration, then an AXP 1.4GHz would be the obvious choice. However, this isn't always the case, and when its not the case, then you've got a whole slew of other things to take into consideration which I won't bother listing here, since they've pretty much already been covered in this thread. So I ask again, why say "I will only ever buy CPUs from company X" instead of "I will buy which ever CPU best suits my needs when I'm ready to buy"?

 

[Duvie]

INsane3d, you are joking right??? I see them quite regularly...Maybe not the veterans but many guys who install it right the first time but since they like to take the hsf off so much to reapply as3, add shims, or usea different hsf then they end of cracking it....

A lot of the time the titles of the threads will be "is it dead" or "did I kill it"

Newbies I see more often and usually are the ones who fry them do to improper contact and installation....


I mean don't be so brand loyal you are blind to a legitimate argument....

Yes, he could do homework and ask questions and likely be just fine...However he could go wrong for some reason and that is why I offered the answer to him fore the easiest safe installation.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Duvie
INsane3d, you are joking right??? I see them quite regularly...Maybe not the veterans but many guys who install it right the first time but since they like to take the hsf off so much to reapply as3, add shims, or usea different hsf then they end of cracking it....

A lot of the time the titles of the threads will be "is it dead" or "did I kill it"

Newbies I see more often and usually are the ones who fry them do to improper contact and installation....


I mean don't be so brand loyal you are blind to a legitimate argument....


Yes, he could do homework and ask questions and likely be just fine...However he could go wrong for some reason and that is why I offered the answer to him fore the easiest safe installation.

I'm not joking...and if anyone is sounding a bit "brand loyal" it's you. I have both, use both, and like both. You bring up two points about the Athlon that are just plain misleading.

First, cracking the core is almost unheard of anymore. Show me some recent threads regarding someone cracking their core...it just doesn't happen anymore with the newer, properly designed HSF's.

You also bring up thermal management, but if you were familiar with the newer AMD boards, you would know that most, if not all, now fully support thermal shut down and diode monitoring. There was just a couple of threads last week in the motherboard forum where someone powered up their Athlon with the HSF not making contact with the core. The board shut down, the person re-seated the HSF, and it was fine.

I wasn't even arguing whether or not AMD or Intel would be better or worse. I was just clearing up some misinformation being spread by you. I would look in the mirror before you start calling people "brand loyal".

On a side note...didn't you manage to kill a Northwood P4 by running the vcore to high?

I could care less which he buys, and I even agree the Intel HSF is easier to install...slightly. However, I still don't like how the Intel mounting design causes the board to bow out below the CPU socket. You are making arguments that were valid last year...not now.

 

[dszd0g]

I use both Intel and AMD systems. AMD systems are better price/performance wise, but it has been my experience that Intel systems are easier to get working properly. It may be that every time I have gone AMD I have gone pretty much top of the line and there are issues that still need to be worked out. But I have always had to tweak AMD systems more to get them to a point where I am happy.

[Edit: To elaborate, if you want to save some money at the cost of time go AMD. Just be sure to spend the time doing your reading so you are aware of all the installation issues you have to watch out for with your set-up. I highly recommend reading lots of reviews, picking out some parts, and then posting a thread asking what people think about that configuration.

If you don't do your reading, you may kill something and waste any money that you may have saved. You can kill components pretty easily on an Intel set-up too. The major screw ups newbies make can generally be made on either platform.

You may learn more going AMD if you care about that.
]

 

[Technonut]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Duvie
INsane3d, you are joking right??? I see them quite regularly...Maybe not the veterans but many guys who install it right the first time but since they like to take the hsf off so much to reapply as3, add shims, or usea different hsf then they end of cracking it....

A lot of the time the titles of the threads will be "is it dead" or "did I kill it"

Newbies I see more often and usually are the ones who fry them do to improper contact and installation....


I mean don't be so brand loyal you are blind to a legitimate argument....


Yes, he could do homework and ask questions and likely be just fine...However he could go wrong for some reason and that is why I offered the answer to him fore the easiest safe installation.

I'm not joking...and if anyone is sounding a bit "brand loyal" it's you. I have both, use both, and like both. You bring up two points about the Athlon that are just plain misleading.

First, cracking the core is almost unheard of anymore. Show me some recent threads regarding someone cracking their core...it just doesn't happen anymore with the newer, properly designed HSF's.

You also bring up thermal management, but if you were familiar with the newer AMD boards, you would know that most, if not all, now fully support thermal shut down and diode monitoring. There was just a couple of threads last week in the motherboard forum where someone powered up their Athlon with the HSF not making contact with the core. The board shut down, the person re-seated the HSF, and it was fine.

I wasn't even arguing whether or not AMD or Intel would be better or worse. I was just clearing up some misinformation being spread by you. I would look in the mirror before you start calling people "brand loyal".

On a side note...didn't you manage to kill a Northwood P4 by running the vcore to high?

I could care less which he buys, and I even agree the Intel HSF is easier to install...slightly. However, I still don't like how the Intel mounting design causes the board to bow out below the CPU socket. You are making arguments that were valid last year...not now.

Well said....... I could not have put it better myself. 🙂

 

[fkloster]

fkloster's un-official scale for rating Intel and And cpu's w/10 bieng highest score / 1 bieng lowest:

Clock for clock performance: Intel- 7 Amd- 10
Price/performance ratio: Intel- 8 Amd- 8
Performance only: Intel- 9 Amd- 7
Price only: Intel- 7 Amd- 9
Stability w/ chipset in mind: Intel- 9 Amd- 7
Stability of cpu only: Intel- 10 Amd- 10
Thermal protection: Intel- 10 Amd- 6
Ease of installation: Intel- 8 Amd- 6

Final Score: Intel- 68 Amd- 63

 

[SpideyCU]

Ditto what Insane3D said. Just because he was trying to clarify some points doesn't make him "brand loyal".

 

[Duvie]

Brand loyal....Lots of laughs....I use both....I have used amd exclusively for 3 years up until now for my desktop at home yet I just built myself and amd for work...so you don't know what you are talking about.

I still see cracked cores and like you said not all mobos have thermal support...some does and some does not....


Fkloster scale seems to hit the nail on the head 8 to 6 for ease of installation....


MY northwood was about overclocking dangers and this is about just building it. I don't see the connection to your lame comment.

 

[dszd0g]

Originally posted by: fkloster

Price/performance ratio: Intel- 8 Amd- 8
Performance only: Intel- 9 Amd- 7
Final Score: Intel- 68 Amd- 63

IMO:

Price/performance ratio: Intel- 8 Amd - 10
Performance only: Intel- 9 Amd- 8

Final Score: Intel - 68 Amd - 66

However, this thread mainly asked about ease of installation and I think fkloster is on the ball on that one.

If you want to further improve Intel's score:

Overclocking: Intel- 8 Amd - 5

Intel you can't unlock the multiplier (depriving it of the 10). Recent AMD CPU's just don't overclock well.

I am sure there are categories that could improve AMD's score, so I wouldn't take the total as anything really useful.

 

[Insane3D]

I'll ask again...

Show me some recent threads regarding someone cracking their core...

Also...

I still see cracked cores

You personally? Where? How many?

and like you said not all mobos have thermal support...some does and some does not....

You point is irrelevant unless he is going to build a new system with an older, used mobo. All of the newer, mainstream AMD boards, which he would likely get if he went AMD, have the feature and it works properly, so saying some boards don't support it is misleading...

The recent boards from the usual suspects like Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, MSI, Epox, etc, all have the thermal protection properly supported, and support the thermal diode fully.



You know it's funny. You come in here, spread inaccurate information regarding building an AMD setup, and then when I call you on it, you immediately call me "brand loyal". I asked you for proof on the supposedly "all to common" core cracking and you still haven't shown me one shred of proof to this still happening. Also, you make obviously inflammatory comments like..

love how all these "love amd" guys love to advocate the 1600+xp...basically the chip that is making no money for amd and is the reason loads of higher xp's are sitting on shelves not selling and not making amd money...I get a laugh out of it...ohhhh, about everytime I see an amd user recommend it....

What does this have to do with the thread? Why is it soooo funny that someone can get a $50 chip that can run 1.8ghz with no additional voltage or cooling, and roughly hang up there with a 2.4ghz P4? Please explain what's so funny. Is everyone that suggests such a bang for the buck deal a, what was it you called it, a "love amd guy". Then you go on with crap about how it makes no money for AMD, which is true, but who honestly thinks about what chip "makes money" for a company before they buy it? If you are so eager to support a chip company, why did you buy Intel's cheapest offering in the 1.6A and not get one of their higher speed, higher costs P4's that will help Intel make more money?

One last thing, I would think you would be able to find at least one cracked core thread since they are, how did you put it..oh yeah...

Cause they also see the countless threads of newbies and sometimes veterans who crak their chips

With cracking core threads so common, it should be a breeze to find a couple huh?

 

[spanner]

I would say either as long as you don't use a VIA chipset. I prefer AMD because Intel doesn't even come close to their price performance ratio. if you go with AMD I would highly recommend an Nforce/Nforce2 based motherboard. As for cracking AMD cores, follow the instuctions carefully and it won't happen. Make sure you research every other part you get for stability issues! get a good power supply. Also get someone who knows what they are doing to help you. Building your first computer is not something you should do alone.

 

[Mem]

Man, this is a flame thread if I ever saw one. There is no better CPU. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. For me, I prefer AMD, because I am poor. AMD CPUs offer more bang for the buck in the majority of applications, period. However, the P4 does perform very strongly in certain applications, and in general their systems are easier to setup. Goto Anandtech's site and check out some reviews of the CPUs to see how they stack up and which CPU performs better under the applications you use most.

I agree with that statement,I`ve owned both Intel and AMD ,but have only built two AMD rigs(900 t-bird and XP 1700 + ),installing the heatsinks was no brainer.Just don`t take off the rubber pads on the corners of the AMD CPU and apply the main pressure on the clips only and core cracks are a thing of the past.

I would say either as long as you don't use a VIA chipset.

Only ever owned two VIA boards (on my AMD rigs)but both are rock stable,I guess I always build PCs the right way 😉.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'd say Intel with a Motherboard that has an Intel Chipset. It makes for an easy setup if you haven't any real experience building a system. However, if you read up about setting up an AMD system you should be able to build one with out much trouble either. Just be careful with while attaching the HSF to the CPU and make sure you have the Fan on the heatsink plugged into the fan header on the motherboard.

Just make sure you are informed and don't hesitate to ask questions.

Only ever owned two VIA boards (on my AMD rigs)but both are rock stable,I guess I always build PCs the right way

If you are informed that's the only way you will build them🙂

 

[Actaeon]

Well, I have actually chipped a corn on an Athlon not too long ago (a month ago). It wasn't too serious. It is still works properly. Chipped it when removing my HSF. The worse made clip. EVER.

I believe, a good heatsink with a good clip, would prevent alot of the chipped cores. So given the right heatsink, I wouldn't worry so much for core chipping, or causing any damage.

Though, Intel is practically newbie proof..... A beginniner could not screw that it up, unless they bump the voltage to 2.0V, or drop it off a 4 story building....

I'd say, if you had the money. Intel would probally be best for a beginner such as yourself. But if on a budget, AMD is not much harder, but just be more careful, and know what you are doing before trying anything.

EDIT:

HSF I was using was a Volcano 5, Piece of junk.

 

[Actaeon]

Also, my two VIA chipsets, a KT133 on an Abit KT7A V1.3, and my latest KT333, on the EPoX 8K5A2, has never given me any problems.

The whole stability/problem issue is just a bunch of gibberish I say.

 

[JwLeonhart]

I would get an AMD chip because they are cheaper, more bang for the buck, AMD doesn't monopolize like intel (YAY!) and it's always nice to cheer on the little guy, as well as ever since I bought my first AMD i'll never switch back to Intel. =)

 

[VTrider]

Tigerboy, guess you never expected all this, eh! :Q When all is said and done in this thread though, you will definately be better informed to make your decision. If you do a little research and reading, you shouldn't run into any major problems building with either platform. Chances are that you will be more than happy going with either AMD or INTEL. Personally, I would recommend AMD if not for any other reason than to save money.


-VTrider



(BTW: I've subscribed to this thread only to read Duvie's reply to Insane3D......this should be entertaining! 😉

 

[Duvie]

Here you go insane3d....

If you have an idea on how to search content of threads for key words like chipped and cracked let me know since many time ppl just shout "help" in there title and a search for what is in the title doesn't always tell the story...I agree less chipped and cracked cores of today versus the amd boom times here in anandtech land. However other then many getting 1600+ xp to oc the vast majority of threads here have moved to intel p4 since the northwoods. I think the product is not as popular as it was in the past and thus less ppl buying new chips.

I will check out and amd site like amdmb.com and see wat I can find....


http://forums.anandtech.com/message...eadid=868483&highlight_key=y&keyword1=CHIPPED

http://forums.anandtech.com/arcmess...eadid=843704&highlight_key=y&keyword1=CHIPPED

http://forums.anandtech.com/arcmess...hreadid=835030&highlight_key=y&keyword1=FRIED

http://forums.anandtech.com/arcmess...hreadid=830055&highlight_key=y&keyword1=FRIED


As for the thermal protection while it is true he may get a newer board ask yourself this.....


Does all kt333 mobos have thermal protection?

How about popular ecs mobo already recomended here?

Ultimately it does come down to best thermal protection is implemented in chip, but I agree the newer mobos seem to protect them. Alittle late considering how long the ability has been there for manufacturers

I think there is a chance if he is interested in budget route and not the oc route he could easily stray and get one that does not offer that protection...can we agree on that??? Do research and that could be resolved...


The 1600+ comment was made to some individual who I regularly comment with in the cpu forums over same issue of amd fiscal future......It wasn't meant at you or the author of this thread.



I have owned 4 different athlon rigs and built 5 others for ppl and 1 recently here and I have to say even with a newer heatsink the pressure needed to apply it to the clip is sometimes nerve racking.....I have never chipped one (knock on wood) but I can see how stuff breaks....I agree older hsf were also easier to place on backwards and cause major damage.

Basically I am familiar with there install.

I got to admit I feel safer on the whole cpu throttling protection with the p4. I recently had my son go into my office and I wasn't paying attention and he stuck a toy into the side of the case hitting the cpu fan and causing it to stop. I heard it and ran into the office and indeed the fan was stopped and by the time I was able to shutdown the pc. the whole time from noise to getting into the office figuring out what was the issue to shutting down it was probably about 10-15 seconds. If an amd board did not have that protection I am sure it would be toast.



I agree if money is a major factor then the best option is to go with amd chips and mostly with the lower ranged chips. I think amd is a great product or I wouldn't buy one for my work pc. However I answered a question honestly and should have been considered my opnion.

Can you still crack an xp chip core even with newer heatsinks??? Yes....Less likely today??? Probably ...Should amd implement an IHS plate like intel to protect this?? Yes and sounds like the hammer is supposed to have one...

Can you still get many boards that offer no thermal protection??? Yes...Will this author get one of those??? Possibly

Can you crack the core of the p4?? NO

Can you fry a p4 chip when not overvolting the chip?? No

Go back to my second post in this thread and tell me where I made an inaccuracy.....


He should have just made this a poll with no debate so this flame war wouldn't have gotten started...

 

[Mem]

He should have just made this a poll with no debate so this flame war wouldn't have gotten started...

Why? He did not start the flame war,he asked a honest question,your first post probably started the flame war,you said Intel but gave no reason why so other members jumped in,

Beginner equals INtel...no brainer...get a nice intel chip and intel chipset..."And Don't think about it!!!"

He certainly can think about it,since it`s his money his choice.To be fair you did give some reasons why after.In the end I just want to wish Tigerboy
good luck on whatever way he decides to go,AMD & Intel are both great & building your first PC will always be special.

🙂