Intel superior in the future of gaming?

evilbix

Member
Oct 8, 2004
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I'm just curious if the newer engines that are using multi-threading will push the pentium chips up on top in terms of performance? Intel will be running 4 virtual cpu's each being able to handle a different thread while AMD will be stuck with 2.

The tradeoff is that AMD can run each thread a bit faster (An assumption, but more than likely true when the time comes around), but will it actually keep AMD up on top?

I think that Intel can take the lead again, but it'd probably only be a very small one.
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
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No

Games will not be multi thread oriented on a wide enough scale to give intel any such advantage, CPU hardware advances much too quickly. We'll have 4+ physical cores or something else entirely before the PDEE could give intel an advantage in games over the X2.
 

BitByBit

Senior member
Jan 2, 2005
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Games aren't even dual-threaded yet, let alone quad-threaded.
According to an AT article (I forget which), optimising a game for SMT is very costly in terms of development costs, and it will be atleast another year before dual-threaded games start to emerge, and I daren't speculate on how long it will be before we see quad-threaded games.
So for the time being, AMD is going to remain top dog in gaming performance - a lead that will only be extended when games go dualthreads, due to the X2's more efficient dual-core implementation.

(Hint: 8xx EE Pentiums won't offer gamers any advantage over non-EE 8xx's for a long time.)

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Unfortunately, Intel made the incredibly stupid mistake of disabling HT on all their dual-core CPUs except the Extreme Edition.
 

canadageek

Senior member
Dec 28, 2004
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yeah....i dunno whats up with intel lately...the EE line is pointless, there cpu's suck for gaming, and the run very hot....WTF?
 

BillyBobJoel71

Platinum Member
Mar 24, 2005
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ht is awesome, but why did they disable it? it makes things a hell of alot faster, but i don't think it improves games. if they go 3.8 dual core with ht, that would kick ass.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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Maybe they disabled it because it produces more heat, or so they could have the EE with an extra feature other than unlocking.
 

tallman45

Golden Member
May 27, 2003
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'Superior" ?

Procs are so advanced right now that they need to jump through hoops to get 3-5% performance increases
 

ZobarStyl

Senior member
Mar 3, 2004
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I think your assumption is based on a misundestanding of what HT does: HT is a way of keeping the long pipelines on the P4's full all the time, so as to lessen the amount of wasted cycles the processor performs. The added benefit of this is that it covers up how badly the Windows Scheduler sucks. Is it a bad feature? Absolutely not, it does add some very good things in terms of responsiveness between two heavy programs. It does not, however, make a processor technically faster. So in programs where the pipeline is entirely dedicated to one thread and the CPU is being used at its highest level (such as games), K8 chips blow NetBurst chips out of the water. So even if you use HT to keep the P4's pipeline's full, it's still slower than a K8, assuming the scheduling is done right (within a program shouldn't have to fight the Scheduler). Basically, your assumption is based on exposing a weakness in the Athlon, not finding a strength in the P4, and you'll need quite a bit more strength in games to bring out the P4's from their rut.

Also, you don't seem to realize that a) programmers have to factor in the lowest common denominator and b) complexity of multithreading increases for each thread, it's not just as simple as 'if you have 2, you can have 4'. By lowest common denom, I mean that there is only one x86 processor in the world right now that is capable of 4 threads simultaneously, and it costs 1000 dollars. Lesson in economics: you don't spend massive amounts of programming time to put in a feature that only .0001% of people can use. The Pentium D's will have the same problem with 4 threads right now that X2's have, so the point is moot. And hopefully, all this dual core stuff will force MS to take another look at how the Windows Scheduler works.
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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2 of these post??

Actually it will help them from current numbers but by the time it arrives the only ppl it will help are the slow converters and the ppl who dont upgrade for 2-3 years...

Also remember Ht helps certain items in the 10-20% range now so unfortunately it wont be ownage!!! In many games now like priced cpus are losing by 10%...Ppl who fall into the fps hype are usually the enthusiast and they would hav elong moved on....


So the topic is basically silly for most in terms of singles cores now....


In dual cores like mentioned Ht is ucrrently not there for all the D models...And it is likely while the games may evetually come dual threaded they may not like most applications be able to take advanatge of the 4 cores....I see not enough boost to take any of the gaming titles away.....
 

bjc112

Lifer
Dec 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: SuperTyphoon
ht is awesome, but why did they disable it? it makes things a hell of alot faster, but i don't think it improves games. if they go 3.8 dual core with ht, that would kick ass.

They aren't even over the 3.4 bump yet..

and at current costs, I'll have to chop my foot off to get one...
 

ssvegeta1010

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: bjc112
Originally posted by: SuperTyphoon
ht is awesome, but why did they disable it? it makes things a hell of alot faster, but i don't think it improves games. if they go 3.8 dual core with ht, that would kick ass.

They aren't even over the 3.4 bump yet..

and at current costs, I'll have to chop my foot off to get one...


Youd prolly have to chop off more than a foot.
 
Nov 11, 2004
10,855
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Nope. You'd need to sell about half your body. :p

AMD > Intel in gaming still. Even if it does have two cores and two more virtual cores. You've only got two *physical* cores to work with.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
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considering that amd stomped intel 1 core vs. 2 virtual cores, i don't think it would change for 2 cores vs 4 virtual cores.
 

BitByBit

Senior member
Jan 2, 2005
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The benefits of HT are two-fold:
1. To allow foreground threads to run uninterrupted while processing other threads.
2. To allow the execution units to be kept busy.
Most people don't realise the difficulty in keeping execution units busy, especially integer units. The processor's OOO engine has to be able to extract a certain amount of ILP from the code being executed, and then dispatch these parallel instructions to the execution units.
The Athlon has an even bigger problem than the P4 in this respect, since it has 3 integer and 3 floating-point units. Finding three instructions to execute in parallel is more difficult than finding two instructions to execute in parallel.
Hyperthreading not only allows the P4 to process threads simultaneously, or to switch between threads seemlessly, it also gives it more instructions to pick from - instructions that don't share dependency.
So, although the Athlon 64 doesn't need HT as much as the P4 does for smooth multitasking (largely thanks to its IMC), it would still benefit substantially.
There is also another problem.
Threads are usually either integer code, or floating point. So if you're playing a game, your FPU(s) are going to be busy, while your integer units are going to be largely idle.
If a particular game has a sophisticated AI, then it hurts performance not being able to run the physics or animation while running the AI.
HT allows both your integer and floating-point units to be active, solving this problem.
As I have stated above however, it will be a while before HT-enabled dual cores will provide any benefit to gamers, due to the difficulties programmers face in threading game engines.
 

fatty4ksu

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2005
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AMD has been decent lately w/the 64 lineup.

But Intel is ready to return to dominance soon.

JMO.

:shy:
 

clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
AMD has been decent lately w/the 64 lineup.

But Intel is ready to return to dominance soon.

JMO.

:shy:

If predicting events were that easy, then we'd all be wadded in cash.

Prescott was going to be the "Nail" in the coffin for AMD after the whole 3200 AXP "failing" as some put it.
 

Viditor

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 1999
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Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
AMD has been decent lately w/the 64 lineup.

But Intel is ready to return to dominance soon.

JMO.

:shy:

Nothing wrong with having an opinion...but if you're gonna post it, you should really state some facts to back it up...JMO. ;)
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
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Originally posted by: fatty4ksu
AMD has been decent lately w/the 64 lineup.

But Intel is ready to return to dominance soon.

JMO.

:shy:

you mean the dominance it had for roughly 12 months between 2002/2003? Because athlon has been dominant since '99/'00 as far as i can tell.