Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

Page 465 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

blue11

Member
May 11, 2017
151
77
51
GeekBench should just be treated as a random number generator. What's more likely, that Skylake-X somehow doubled the memory bandwidth (STREAM Triad), or that GeekBench authors are incompetent?

Stream Triad
Multi-core 5910
26.0 GB/sec

Stream Triad
Multi-core 9615
42.3 GB/sec

Never mind how AIDA64 reports over 60 GB/s on 6900K.
 

csbin

Senior member
Feb 4, 2013
841
360
136
This is going to disappoint some.

7700K vs 6900K: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/8302732?baseline=8370952

The 6900K is faster in most of the single threaded portion of the subtests. So they are very sensitive to memory bandwidth.

Here's a comparison of 7820X vs 6900K: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/8371149?baseline=8302732




7820X@5700mhz!!!! 47032 socre

http://hwbot.org/submission/3566679_wizerty_geekbench3___multi_core_core_i7_7820x_47032_points

HyJOA.png
 

csbin

Senior member
Feb 4, 2013
841
360
136
SKYLAKE-X

IPC?????


Ryzen 7 1700X @ 5166MHz !!!!! 43539 score

5960X@5782mhz!!!! 44275 score

7820X@5700mhz!!!! 47032 socre
 

Yeroon

Member
Mar 19, 2017
123
57
71
So use your head? Instead of running prime95 for multiple days, you can cycle it on-off in 30 second intervals. That might actually be a harder stress test than just leaving it running, since voltage will be changing (overshoot, undershoot, etc.).

Interesting. And how do you propose P95 provides stability feedback when it can't finish each iteration because you're cycling it.
Go do some overclocking, it seems you clearly don't understand the relationships at work required to end up with a stable overclock. It isn't just thermal limits that prevent a stable OC.

If you don't want to learn, nobody can teach you anything. You can just set a fan speed limit in your BIOS and run prime95 for a minute.

That wouldn't even phase my OC.
Regardless - the cooler you can keep the cpu, the less voltage is required to reach a certain mhz. The problem comes when the manufacturing process (TIM) doesn't allow the heat transfer rate to take advantage of a good cooling system/low temps.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
The rest of us grown-ups will discuss the real world, while you play in your bubble pit.
The man who did not know CPU-Z did not detect voltage on unreleased CPUs properly and the man who never linked any of evidence for his statements call me the one in the bubble. That's cute.
The 6900K is faster in most of the single threaded portion of the subtests. So they are very sensitive to memory bandwidth.
Memory bandwidth has nothing to do with it. GB3 is outdated cache-sensitive benchmark.
What's more likely, that Skylake-X somehow doubled the memory bandwidth (STREAM Triad), or that GeekBench authors are incompetent?
The SKL-X runs quad channel while 6900k runs dual channel, landing same bandwidth as 7700k. Deduction is hard.
 

blue11

Member
May 11, 2017
151
77
51
Interesting. And how do you propose P95 provides stability feedback when it can't finish each iteration because you're cycling it.
Go do some overclocking, it seems you clearly don't understand the relationships at work required to end up with a stable overclock. It isn't just thermal limits that prevent a stable OC.
The entire premise was that (according to lolfail9001), motherboard manufacturers are quoting a 4.3 GHz limit solely because of thermal reasons. Except, this can't be true, because then you could run at 4.8 or whatever the "real" stable frequency is for some minutes until the heat builds up.
That wouldn't even phase my OC.
Your OC is so amazing that it can happen with the fan off?
Regardless - the cooler you can keep the cpu, the less voltage is required to reach a certain mhz. The problem comes when the manufacturing process (TIM) doesn't allow the heat transfer rate to take advantage of a good cooling system/low temps.
Why are you arguing a point that was never being disputed?
The SKL-X runs quad channel while 6900k runs dual channel, landing same bandwidth as 7700k. Deduction is hard.
The little boy who did not know i7-6900K is a quad-channel CPU trying to call others out. Adorable.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
Lol, no? That's the 5.7 GHz 7820x score. What frequency is that 6900k running at? The 4.0 that Geekbench reports?

Fair enough, Windows vs Linux as well so probably flawed anyway. But I expect the higher Turbo clocks to play a major role for Skylake-X. 18% higher all core Turbo + 23-28% higher 1-2 core Turbo was a pleasant surprise (Core i9-7900X vs Core i7-6950X). These chips will be great performers all-around, excepcional for your typical games and software that tax few cores and also much better than Intel's current lineup for highly MT productivity stuff (both non AVX / AVX).
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
The SKL-X runs quad channel while 6900k runs dual channel, landing same bandwidth as 7700k. Deduction is hard.

Deduction is hard.

Be nice. Like I said, these forums are effectively like politics. You've got no affiliation here. True, some have bias towards some companies, just like people have bias towards political parties. However there's much less excuse for being rude.

That said: I've looked at about 15 random 6900K results. The results do not vary more than 10-20% in average for memory bandwidth. Do they all use dual channel or something? I challenge someone to find BDW-E memory bandwidth score that differs significantly from what's posted in the last 3 pages. 7700K score is significantly better.

Never mind how AIDA64 reports over 60 GB/s on 6900K.

I would trust STREAM over AIDA64, the former is industry recognized benchmark regularly used to benchmark server memory performance. That said, I'm looking at STREAM results for them.

The little boy who did not know i7-6900K is a quad-channel CPU trying to call others out. Adorable.

Again, what does talking this way achieve other than possible "I win the argument". It's pointless. The adverse effects of competition is that it sacrifices human relationships(the most important) for better product(much less important). I was reading about Apple's absolute dominant attitude towards suppliers and the employees that work for them and how they suffer to do so and wondered no product is worth such crap treatment of human beings.
 
Last edited:

blue11

Member
May 11, 2017
151
77
51
I would trust STREAM over AIDA64, the former is industry recognized benchmark regularly used to benchmark server memory performance. That said, I'm looking at STREAM results for them.
The classic STREAM program is obsolete and only uses scalar instructions, leaving it vulnerable to compiler nonsense. The STREAM implementation in AIDA64 is optimized for SSE, AVX, etc. and can utilize the full bandwidth of the processor.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
I looked at STREAM results, the 6900K gets 50% higher BW than 7700K in Copy but less than 20% higher in Scale, Triad, and Add.

I wonder if that means whatever method they used to compile x86 systems are just not that good on Geekbench. That puts in question Apple A10's performance against x86 CPUs in Geekbench too, considering Apple optimizes truly from top to bottom. Super optimized just for mobile usage and applications.

The classic STREAM program is obsolete and only uses scalar instructions, leaving it vulnerable to compiler nonsense. The STREAM implementation in AIDA64 is optimized for SSE, AVX, etc. and can utilize the full bandwidth of the processor.

Having a benchmark fully optimized for the latest instructions isn't the best benchmark either. The one that's resistant to such "easy" changes like vectorizing and shows true hard earned architectural changes make it a good benchmark that reflects real world scenarios.

I've noticed when looking at iGPU benchmarks, 3DMark version a generation older reflected actual, playable game performance, and the newest only seemed to apply with highest settings or the bleeding edge graphics games.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
Regarding reviews and launch: Reviews should be up on June 12, same day as Intel's PC Gaming Show at E3-2017. Not sure about the exact time, but I'd guess same as the event, so 1:00 PM Eastern Time. Pre-orders go up on the same day, actual market availability June 26 (last bit still based on BenchLife's leak). Expect next generation Coffee Lake-S at Gamescon 2017 (August 22-26).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheF34RChannel

vissarix

Senior member
Jun 12, 2015
297
96
101
SKYLAKE-X

IPC?????


Ryzen 7 1700X @ 5166MHz !!!!! 43539 score

5960X@5782mhz!!!! 44275 score

7820X@5700mhz!!!! 47032 socre
You're trying too hard, relax dude :D

BTW Skylake X IPC seems to be quite good if we are to believe GB scores...

Ryzen 7 1700X @ 5166MHz !!!!! 43539 score


7800x @3500mhz !!!!! 37344 score
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/8370254


So with a slight overclock Skylake X 6 cores 12 threads should demolish an LN2 cooled suicide run 8 core 16 threads Ryzen.

How does it sound now?;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: pcp7 and Sweepr

blue11

Member
May 11, 2017
151
77
51
I looked at STREAM results, the 6900K gets 50% higher BW than 7700K in Copy but less than 20% higher in Scale, Triad, and Add.

I wonder if that means whatever method they used to compile x86 systems are just not that good on Geekbench. That puts in question Apple A10's performance against x86 CPUs in Geekbench too, considering Apple optimizes truly from top to bottom. Super optimized just for mobile usage and applications.



Having a benchmark fully optimized for the latest instructions isn't the best benchmark either. The one that's resistant to such "easy" changes like vectorizing and shows true hard earned architectural changes make it a good benchmark that reflects real world scenarios.
You actually figured it out yourself. Since the classic STREAM program is not optimized for SIMD, the result depends more on the compiler than the hardware (auto-vectorization, loop manipulation, etc.).
 

csbin

Senior member
Feb 4, 2013
841
360
136
You're trying too hard, relax dude :D

BTW Skylake X IPC seems to be quite good if we are to believe GB scores...

Ryzen 7 1700X @ 5166MHz !!!!! 43539 score


7800x @3500mhz !!!!! 37344 score
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/8370254


So with a slight overclock Skylake X 6 cores 12 threads should demolish an LN2 cooled suicide run 8 core 16 threads Ryzen.

How does it sound now?;)




7800x @3500mhz !!!!! 37344 score????????????:fearscream::fearscream:


http://hwbot.org/submission/3565794_elmor_geekbench3___multi_core_core_i7_7800x_37983_points


YgPWO.jpg
 

csbin

Senior member
Feb 4, 2013
841
360
136
You're trying too hard, relax dude :D

BTW Skylake X IPC seems to be quite good if we are to believe GB scores...

Ryzen 7 1700X @ 5166MHz !!!!! 43539 score


7800x @3500mhz !!!!! 37344 score
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/8370254


So with a slight overclock Skylake X 6 cores 12 threads should demolish an LN2 cooled suicide run 8 core 16 threads Ryzen.

How does it sound now?;)


7800x @5798mhz !!!!! 37344 score:tearsofjoy:


http://hwbot.org/submission/3565728_wizerty_geekbench3___multi_core_core_i7_7800x_37344_points/

2zDf7.jpg
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,669
5,295
136
I wouldn't really trust or make judgements on the GB3 scores. As to why the overclockers like GB3 more, possibly because it doesn't have AVX execution code.

The SGEMM test for instance has much higher GFlops in GB4 versus GB3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nothingness

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
Be nice. Like I said, these forums are effectively like politics. You've got no affiliation here. True, some have bias towards some companies, just like people have bias towards political parties. However there's much less excuse for being rude.
Fair enough, though i was getting annoyed and you see why. Yeah, you're right, i should really calm down.
I wonder if that means whatever method they used to compile x86 systems are just not that good on Geekbench. That puts in question Apple A10's performance against x86 CPUs in Geekbench too, considering Apple optimizes truly from top to bottom. Super optimized just for mobile usage and applications.
Note: GB3 iirc uses different compilers for different platforms, GB4 (the one that leads to those A10 vs x86 comparisons) uses LLVM on all platforms. So you could imagine it would be Apple favored, but LLVM's nature kind of offsets that.
The little boy who did not know i7-6900K is a quad-channel CPU trying to call others out. Adorable.
Thanks man, no wonder you and I are in the same boat wasting time on this forum. Both are little boys, you know.
 

Yeroon

Member
Mar 19, 2017
123
57
71
The entire premise was that (according to lolfail9001), motherboard manufacturers are quoting a 4.3 GHz limit solely because of thermal reasons. Except, this can't be true, because then you could run at 4.8 or whatever the "real" stable frequency is for some minutes until the heat builds up.

You were the one claiming a 4.3 OC was some hard limit:

You can see in the XTU screenshot that they are just increasing the allowed turbo frequency at various core counts. If the CPU were electrically stable at higher frequencies (i.e. no voltage limit), they could have set a higher target frequency and let thermal throttling handle it. Since they didn't, this implies that 4.3 GHz is a hard limit, regardless of cooling.

My entire point of mentioning cooler temps mean high freq with same voltage was to dispute your theory of 'thermal throttling' which is an absurd way of achieving a stable overclock. if it was even possible. Most if not all cpu oc software, or bios-es,do not let you tweak a thermal throttle - its typically a thermal shutdown limit - hit it and your computer shuts down.

Your OC is so amazing that it can happen with the fan off?

Not the OC, the cooling system. You also didnt say fan off, just tweaked to min %. Regardless, I could probably shut off both my rad fans and do a 1min run of p95, or ryzen blender, or a cinebench MT run, due to the specific heat of water, along with the mass of the rest of the cooling system.

Looking at the pic of the 4.3 Ghz OC, thats probably the low end of whats possible. No temp issues, voltage is low for intel 14nm (maxxed voltage would indicate a wall, not low voltages). I'd say those are just quick and simple OC's, no real attempt to find the true limit. A 4.5 all core with a good cooling system doesn't seem unreasonable, esp since it can already do it for 2 cores, so its not a process or voltage limit.
 

.vodka

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2014
1,203
1,537
136
Is this a joke? People have the hardware, yet they don't know what to bench with. Why aren't we seeing GB4 scores, or any other more relevant, valid benchmark? GB3 is crap and has been proven wrong many times so long ago.. For all it's worth we could be discussing Antutu scores on phones.

Why are you all getting so worked up on these? They're mostly worthless. When the guys with the hardware grow a brain or two and decide to bench something meaningful, well..