Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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ManyThreads said:
Could someone please explain to me this CPU soldering, and why it's so bad if Skylake-X doesn't have it? TIA.
Click to expand...

Sure!

Many consumer-grade CPUs feature an integrated heat spreader (IHS) that is made of copper and plated with nickel. It's designed to spread heat out so that heatsinks have a more-uniform surface from which to draw heat with their base. It is also designed to prevent users from cracking the die when installed a heatsink which used to be an occasional problem when installing heatsinks on CPUs with a "bare die".

But what connects the die to the IHS for thermal transfer?

Sometimes companies like Intel and AMD use indium solder, with good thermal conductivity. It helps spread heat out from the die to the IHS pretty quickly. Sometimes they use thermal paste much like the generic stuff that ships with cheap(er) heatsinks. That stuff does not have good thermal conductivity, forcing a larger difference in temperature between the die and IHS for heat to spread out effectively.

CPUs with TIM under the IHS tend to run hotter than those with solder under the IHS. The idea that Intel would put TIM on an 18c Skylake-X is completely absurd.

coercitiv said:
Come on, delid that $1700 monster, only non-enthusiast pussies hang on to their warranty!
Click to expand...

Intel should just ship them bare die with an IHS loose in the package.
 
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IndyColtsFan

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
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TheF34RChannel said:
We'll see tomorrow and maybe the prices drop slightly in the following weeks. Either way, I'm on board.
Click to expand...

I think the 8 or 10 core models are probably going to be the models to get and will likely have the best combination of ST performance (due to the clocks) and great MT performance. I'm hoping they drop the price on the 10 core to under $1k.
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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IEC said:
Here's a screenie of an Excel spreadsheet with converted prices from the Thai site:
SYFHx2j.png


Better than giving WCCFTech clicks.
Click to expand...
I am sure both amd and intel thinks they can get higher prices than what will actually happens.
Gf have a fab making ultra low margin crap now that is converting to zen and amd will have to pay mubadala for unused capacity. Gf will have to go full steam.
Intel have adapted capex years back but still they have tons of capacity. Supply will be there.
I dont know how demand evolves but if there is even a slight over supply that is not so variable due to eg the amd wsa agreement prices can quickly go down.

I think we have an slight delayed effect of that. Amd will come under pressure first as its the weak brand and they will soon bend to it. 1800x is first.
And noway a 12 sklx will last at 1700 usd for the next year. Intel and amd hopes it but imo its gone days.
 
M

ManyThreads

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Mar 6, 2017
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Even though the 8c and 10c both have a boost clock of 4.5 Ghz for single core, the 8c should still be able to OC higher, right? I did notice it has a 300Mhz higher base clock than the 10c, but that 4.5Ghz is impressive for a 10c, even if it's just one core. If you could get 4.5 Ghz on all cores on the 8c with an OC & good cooling I think that would be outstanding, at least for my usage (heavy photo editing) - hopefully that isn't too far off.
 
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RichUK

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
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ManyThreads said:
Even though the 8c and 10c both have a boost clock of 4.5 Ghz for single core, the 8c should still be able to OC higher, right? I did notice it has a 300Mhz higher base clock than the 10c, but that 4.5Ghz is impressive for a 10c, even if it's just one core. If you could get 4.5 Ghz on all cores on the 8c with an OC & good cooling I think that would be outstanding, at least for my usage (heavy photo editing) - hopefully that isn't too far off.
Click to expand...

I speculate a good proportion of 7820X's will hit 4.8ghz OC with reasonable volts.

10 core is nice, but I bet it'll draw a lot more current and motherboard VRMs may struggle with high OCs.
 
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Sweepr

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May 12, 2006
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RichUK said:
I speculate a good proportion of 7820X's will hit 4.8ghz OC with reasonable volts.

10 core is nice, but I bet it'll draw a lot more current and motherboard VRMs may struggle with high OCs.
Click to expand...

I agree, to me Core i9-7820X provides a nice balance between single-thread and multi-thread performance. This is the CPU I will probably pick for my next build. TBH I don't know the MSRP yet, but heard it's the best bang-for-the-buck from the new lineup.
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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ManyThreads said:
Even though the 8c and 10c both have a boost clock of 4.5 Ghz for single core, the 8c should still be able to OC higher, right? I did notice it has a 300Mhz higher base clock than the 10c, but that 4.5Ghz is impressive for a 10c, even if it's just one core. If you could get 4.5 Ghz on all cores on the 8c with an OC & good cooling I think that would be outstanding, at least for my usage (heavy photo editing) - hopefully that isn't too far off.
Click to expand...
Yep. Seems like a very strong cpu for that even at stock. I dont think its process limited but thermally it can be a problem especially under stress test due to reasons that is mentioned. I think its a stretch to far. But interesting.
 
M

ManyThreads

Member
Mar 6, 2017
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RichUK said:
I speculate a good proportion of 7820X's will hit 4.8ghz OC with reasonable volts.

10 core is nice, but I bet it'll draw a lot more current and motherboard VRMs may struggle with high OCs.
Click to expand...

If you're right, I will be absolutely thrilled. 4.7-4.8Ghz with water or something like a NH-D15 - that would be an absolute monster for my usage (and pretty much anything else haha). I'd even be happy with 4.5 on all cores instead of one.

I was *THIS* close to buying Ryzen, but I'm glad I waited after seeing the Mhz of these Skylake-X's. Of course there is a price premium but it isn't as bad as I feared.
 
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DrMrLordX

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,637
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formulav8 said:
Everything I've heard was soldering was better than any paste for heat transfer. No need to delid and I wouldn't advise it either.
Click to expand...

If you believe their literature, Thermal Grizzly's Conductonaut has thermal conductivity in line with that of indium solder. Ideally you'd run without an IHS at all unless you use HDT coolers.

For water cooling, bare die is always better.
 
J

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,605
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RichUK said:
10 core is nice, but I bet it'll draw a lot more current and motherboard VRMs may struggle with high OCs.
Click to expand...

I guess we will have to see if any models have AVX-512 fully enabled, and if Intel has done anything to mitigate power draw/heat with the vector units.
 
B

blue11

Member
May 11, 2017
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jpiniero said:
I guess we will have to see if any models have AVX-512 fully enabled, and if Intel has done anything to mitigate power draw/heat with the vector units.
Click to expand...
Hopefully they will have AVX offset from Kaby Lake. You can just run at base frequency for AVX loads, and it's not like you'll be losing much, since you're doing 4x the work per cycle.

Regarding the price leak, if the 12C SKU is already placed at a $1700 halo tier (50% more than 10C), Intel won't have any room to place the purported 14/16/18C SKUs, as the higher-end SKUs can't have a smaller price delta than the lower-end SKUs. Either the 12C will be priced lower, or we're going to see the 18C at $3500 (1700 + 600 * 3) minimum.

My best bet is that Intel expects to ship exactly 0 of the 12C and above SKUs and is only "releasing" them to score a PR win against AMD. If we look at their "response" to Ryzen, we see that Intel made this exact play with Broadwell-E, emphasizing how their top SKU had two more cores than AMD, despite the obvious value gap.
 
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S

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Intel’s secret weapon — Turbo Boost Max 3.0

VideoCardz said:
This slide should provide you a basic understanding of Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0.

Intel-CoreX-Turbo-Boost-3.jpg


Earlier today I saw questions regarding Core-X memory support. To be specific, people were asking whether new CPUs support 4 or 8 DIMMs. The short answer is that Skylake-X supports up to 8 DIMMs, while Kabylake-X supports 4 DIMMs. Here’s a snapshot from ASUS ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING datasheet that I happened to find under my desk:

Click to expand...

https://videocardz.com/newz/intels-secret-weapon-turbo-boost-max-3-0
 
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K

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,952
1,585
136
ManyThreads said:
If you're right, I will be absolutely thrilled. 4.7-4.8Ghz with water or something like a NH-D15 - that would be an absolute monster for my usage (and pretty much anything else haha). I'd even be happy with 4.5 on all cores instead of one.

I was *THIS* close to buying Ryzen, but I'm glad I waited after seeing the Mhz of these Skylake-X's. Of course there is a price premium but it isn't as bad as I feared.
Click to expand...
Take a look at thg power testing of bwe 8c at 4.3GHz. We are at 200w level.
My nh d15 is working with an r7 at 3.8 but i am also a bit sensitive to noise. Skl 8c 4.5 is an enthusiast project for sure. The d15 is a damn fine piece btw but its also at the end of line for air. I would go water for sure with skl 8c 4.5. 100%. Or just settle for a bit less fmax.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-broadwell-e-6950x-6900k-6850k-6800k,4587-9.html
 
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