Question Intel Q2 Results - Terrible

[jpiniero]

https://d1io3yog0oux5.cloudfront.net/_0f37de80c52d83ac6338b4805dea84aa/intel/db/887/8856/earnings_release/Q2+22_EarningsRelease+%281%29.pdf

Revenue down 22%.

Edit: Oh and it gets better... Intel posted a loss!

 

[desrever]

Battery life. Brighter screen. Smaller notch. Better cameras. My 12 Pro Max would barely last a day. My 13 Pro Max lasts 1.5-2 days.

Anyways, it is good to see AMD doing well as we move into a recession, but I am personally concerned about their launch schedule. Genoa and Bergamo aren’t dropping until next year, and Zen 5 in any chip won’t land until 2024. A lot will happen between now and then, and I expect that on the desktop side of things AMD will have issues with Intel.

Desktop is dead during recession.

 

[lightmanek]

Desktop is dead during recession.

Dektop will get $500 16 core CPUs during recession, I like.

 

[shady28]

The 15-year period requirement is strictly for tax purposes and is not required for GAAP reporting and most companies won't follow a 15 year schedule for financial reporting purposes. Companies determine themselves both the schedule and method of amortization in financial reporting. Without knowing what they are amortizing or the method, it's impossible to know how this line item will be handled going forward. For instance, even if they decided to have a 15 year amortization schedule for these expenses, they could choose to do a declining balance method and heavily front load the cost such that it gets reported over 15 years but the vast majority of the cost is reported in the first few quarters and becomes basically negligible after that. We have no idea how it is structured or what value AMD is placing on these intangibles. I absolutely do not expect AMD to keep a heavy amortization line item for 15 years from these acquisitions. They'll most likely want to get them off the books sooner than later so most likely they will front load the costs but stop short of reporting an operating loss. I'd be very surprised if they have report high numbers on this line item for more than a few quarters.

With that said, this is completely irrelevant from the point I was making. The point is, that while companies can use non-GAAP to put together some shady numbers sometimes (and even GAAP isn't immune), it is easy to see why the GAAP and non-GAAP numbers for AMD are so different this quarter and it makes sense why they are reporting non-GAAP the way they are. They are using it to show how the business performed without the costs of the recent M&A included which is very useful information. I'm not going to go into the small details of AMD's earnings report in an Intel thread so if you want to continue to discuss AMD, I suggest you post about it in that thread, but what AMD's results do show us is that they were able to take market share from Intel, especially again, in the more lucrative markets. The macro environment effected Intel and AMD very differently and so it gives light to Intel's own earnings report.

You can leave the "we" part out of that, that's you that thinks you don't know and that would be because you haven't looked.

You might want to look up what Additional Paid in Capital means before you speak.








The idea that you are going to count amortized depreciation of non-tangible assets over time as if it were income is ridiculous.

What Lisa Su has done here is basically hose AMD shareholders. She's diluted the stock by 34%, effectively making the stock holders pay an enormous sum (~35B) using new shares (dilution) for a company (Xilinx) whose revenue was only 3.2B/year and profit was around 0.32B/year, and brought in another 1.5B in debt.

Xilinx would need 100 years - literally - of its 2021 profit to break even on that deal. And its 2021 profit was down from 2020.

What this tells me, personally, is that AMD sees its shareholders as something to be used not as co-owners. Xilinx didn't cost AMD anything, because it was able to use its stock as a piggy bank. The result was a 55% loss in share value at its bottom, and now it is 'only' down about 40% and its real EPS is down 58%.

There's another company that did this recently when emotional people invested in it and drove its shares to stupid levels - AMC.

 

[Doug S]

Desktop is dead during recession.

Desktop is dead because even corporations that bought desktops have equipped all their employees with laptops in 2020. They don't need desktops today except for a few power users. When the new laptops purchased in 2020 age out maybe they will be replaced by desktops again, maybe they will have permanently converted to laptops. But those replacements won't even begin until 2024, and most later than that.

 

[Hitman928]

You can leave the "we" part out of that, that's you that thinks you don't know and that would be because you haven't looked.

You might want to look up what Additional Paid in Capital means before you speak.


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The idea that you are going to count amortized depreciation of non-tangible assets over time as if it were income is ridiculous.

What Lisa Su has done here is basically hose AMD shareholders. She's diluted the stock by 34%, effectively making the stock holders pay an enormous sum (~35B) using new shares (dilution) for a company (Xilinx) whose revenue was only 3.2B/year and profit was around 0.32B/year, and brought in another 1.5B in debt.

Xilinx would need 100 years - literally - of its 2021 profit to break even on that deal. And its 2021 profit was down from 2020.

What this tells me, personally, is that AMD sees its shareholders as something to be used not as co-owners. Xilinx didn't cost AMD anything, because it was able to use its stock as a piggy bank. The result was a 55% loss in share value at its bottom, and now it is 'only' down about 40% and its real EPS is down 58%.

There's another company that did this recently when emotional people invested in it and drove its shares to stupid levels - AMC.

Again, you need to post strictly about AMD in AMD's thread. I don't want to derail this thread any further on things that don't pertain to Intel. I'll just say this, the share value loss you describe also hit Nvidia just as much in the same time frame. AMD has actually recovered slightly better than Nvidia. So trying to pin AMD's share price loss on their Xilinx acquisition seems misguided.

 

[jpiniero]

Keeping it on topic (heh), I believe AMD bought Xilinix because they have some interesting integration going on between Epyc and the FPGAs. Intel's tried this with their products and didn't seem to get much out of it. But I have a feeling AMD has a better plan.

 

[gdansk]

If you do not value Xilinx employees, expertise and their IP at all. Looking at only profit is bean counter wankery. Su is an engineer and liked what she saw for some reason.

 

[scannall]

If you do not value Xilinx employees, expertise and their IP at all. Looking at only profit is bean counter wankery. Su is an engineer and liked what she saw for some reason.

Xilinx and AMD seem to me to be a really good fit. Their technology portfolios seem to complement each other quite well.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Ahh yes the price of everything and the value of nothing. works amazingly until you hit the precipice then it all comes down like a deck of cards. Even Intel acknowledges that otherwise Pat wouldn't have been hired. He too has to defend all those expensive investments in capability from those hard done by investors.

 

[Asterox]

Keeping it on topic (heh), I believe AMD bought Xilinix because they have some interesting integration going on between Epyc and the FPGAs. Intel's tried this with their products and didn't seem to get much out of it. But I have a feeling AMD has a better plan.

Xilinix is FPGA market leader with long history in FPGA tech.

This short video is from 2014.

 

[turtile]

The idea that you are going to count amortized depreciation of non-tangible assets over time as if it were income is ridiculous.

What Lisa Su has done here is basically hose AMD shareholders. She's diluted the stock by 34%, effectively making the stock holders pay an enormous sum (~35B) using new shares (dilution) for a company (Xilinx) whose revenue was only 3.2B/year and profit was around 0.32B/year, and brought in another 1.5B in debt.

Xilinx would need 100 years - literally - of its 2021 profit to break even on that deal. And its 2021 profit was down from 2020.

What this tells me, personally, is that AMD sees its shareholders as something to be used not as co-owners. Xilinx didn't cost AMD anything, because it was able to use its stock as a piggy bank. The result was a 55% loss in share value at its bottom, and now it is 'only' down about 40% and its real EPS is down 58%.

There's another company that did this recently when emotional people invested in it and drove its shares to stupid levels - AMC.

That's what everyone said about the ATI acquisition... That 5 billion purchase price is worth a lot more than that today and AMD might have gone under without them.

 

[mikegg]

Well, maybe you didn't see the roasting I got from several posters that did not believe as we do.

Oh Ok. You were right about Intel. But 99% of people in DIY space had similar opinions to you. Don't let the 1% bother you too much.

Now we have to debate whether Intel can make turnaround. I'd buy their stock now if you think they can.

I used to think that Intel could make a turnaround. Alder Lake gave me hope. But the non-stop delays of Saphire Rapids and their other products makes make think that Intel has a major cultural issue that won't go away for many more years. Who knows if Pat will stick around long enough to see this through.

 

[KompuKare]

Oh Ok. You were right about Intel. But 99% of people in DIY space had similar opinions to you. Don't let the 1% bother you too much.

Now we have to debate whether Intel can make turnaround. I'd buy their stock now if you think they can.

I used to think that Intel could make a turnaround. Alder Lake gave me hope. But the non-stop delays of Saphire Rapids and their other products makes make think that Intel has a major cultural issue that won't go away for many more years. Who knows if Pat will stick around long enough to see this through.

I feel where Alder Lake falls down is that the P cores aren't that great in terms of perf/transistors.
On client Intel can eat that cost - but it is a very real cost - but on servers they are having problems.
Now server chips with all E cores are of course possible and that is certainly a niche I expect them to play, but a lot of that market - certainly amongst the big player - has been or is the process of being taken by ARM now. And now that ARM actually designs server cores it won't just be the big players like AWS who will have custom ARM server chips.
Now there is nothing wrong with throwing transistors at problems - this approach was afterall how things worked while Moore's Law was in full swing - it is a bit brute force. Sometime this can work very well though, Apple sometimes get accused of throwing transistors at their SOCs but that has worked very well for them.

Please check your facts before commenting. The batteries in the MacBook Air 2022 and MacBook Pro 2021 are not glued in.

Sorry for blaming Apple for one bad trend they are not guilty of then!
That Apple aren't that popular on an enthusiast forum is hardly surprising: we don't like having choices removed and mostly deplore crazy anti-consumer stuff like soldering RAM and even worse SSD, zero upgradability, and totally closed-wall systems. And Apple are the posterboy for those trends. I for one am not sorry about holding those views.

 

[poke01]

That Apple aren't that popular on an enthusiast forum is hardly surprising: we don't like having choices removed and mostly deplore crazy anti-consumer stuff like soldering RAM and even worse SSD, zero upgradability, and totally closed-wall systems. And Apple are the posterboy for those trends. I for one am not sorry about holding those views.

Yeah. I am okay for soldered RAM in an ultrabook(It does have advantages like LPDDR RAM for power saving) but for desktops. NO!

But soldering in the SSD in a laptop or even locking the SSD should be iilegal as it promotes e-waste.

 

[zir_blazer]

That's what everyone said about the ATI acquisition... That 5 billion purchase price is worth a lot more than that today and AMD might have gone under without them.

The justification back then was that OEMs and other major customers wanted "full platform" solutions. Intel offered Processors, Chipsets with integrated video, NICs, and even full Motherboards, too, whereas AMD offered just Processors. They were too dependent on third parties like nVidia and ATI just for the mandatory supplementary glue chips to put its Processors to use. The Athlon debut was done with an AMD Chipset, and there was also another one early on for Opterons albeit I think it wasn't the only one.

 

[moinmoin]

She's diluted the stock by 34%, effectively making the stock holders pay an enormous sum (~35B) using new shares (dilution) for a company (Xilinx) whose revenue was only 3.2B/year and profit was around 0.32B/year, and brought in another 1.5B in debt.

That's pure nonsense. Those shares were worth around $75 on October 27th, 2020 when the deal was announced, all trading since happened in full knowledge of this deal. Despite the heavy dilution the shares are currently worth slightly over $100. Buying Xilinx didn't dilute the worth of AMD for its stock holders, quite the contrary so far. If it did the price would need to go clearly below $60 which it never did.

Regarding Xilinx's debt, AMD managed to virtually eradicate its own debts before and has free cash flow as high as never before. The 1.5B can be considered a non-issue in that context.