Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

[Det0x]

*edit*
Already posted

 

[techjunkie123]

Intel is selling defective CPUs - Alderon Games

We have been encountering significant problems with Intel CPU stability. Despite all released microcode, BIOS, and firmware updates, the problem remains unresolved.

alderongames.com

Edit: not new, was posted before.

New (I think) statement from alderon games. They're switching their servers to AMD chips.

 

[Ranulf]

Vex has a decent summary of the issues. His experiences with a gigabyte board around 8min mark. 13700k of his can hit 1.5v in some game tests.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Intel is selling defective CPUs - Alderon Games

We have been encountering significant problems with Intel CPU stability. Despite all released microcode, BIOS, and firmware updates, the problem remains unresolved.

alderongames.com

New (I think) statement from alderon games. They're switching their servers to AMD chips.

Not a new statement. I posted Matt's reddit feed a couple times now. You can see everything Alderon is doing about this debacle by reading his posts there. He recently asked some good questions to the Intel rep there.

@Ranulf

He is a good kid, been watching him since he was in the 100s for subs. Stoked to see his channel grow. He is about my son's age, and he does a good job of explaining stuff to the other zoomers. Gives me hope they will kill off bad tech companies the way boomers accuse mills of killing off everything else. 🤣

 

[Ranulf]

Wow, he's saying his posts on the intel subreddit were deleted.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think we can safely say Hanlon's Razor is not the reason anymore.

 

[thetechfreak]

This thread will go down in AT history. Had a fun time reading it.

 

[coercitiv]

Quoting a post from the other thread:

There is no fix for Intel’s crashing 13th and 14th Gen CPUs — any damage is permanent

We got some answers from Intel, and more are on the way.

www.theverge.com

Ugly to disgusting. This needs a proper watchdog / regulatory investigation at this point.

• Intel confirms ANY 65W or higher 13th/14th CPU is susceptible to accelerated degradation.
• Intel will not recall any CPUs.
• Intel will not provide any manufacturing dates / serial number ranges for via oxidation.
• Intel (obviously) confirms all damage is permanent.

[shameless copy-paste of my comment on another forum]

Other relevant "answers" from that thread article:

 

[DAPUNISHER]

This thread will go down in AT history. Had a fun time reading it.

It ain't nearly over yet.

 

[Det0x]

Intel admits 65w and no-K models are also affected


Lots more Q/A in post below

Intel confirms no recall for Raptor Lake CPUs, microcode won't fix affected units - VideoCardz.com

Intel finally provides a clearer overview of Raptor Lake instability issues No recall, no fix for affected CPUs, investigation still ongoing. Intel has responded to press inquiries about the instability issues affecting 13th and 14th Gen Core processors. Questions from The Verge to Intel were...

videocardz.com

 

[adamge]

Is it fair to say that this could be the beginning of the end of Intel? This could bring them all the way down and take them out, right? If they have to replace 80% of 2 years worth of CPU sales, the costs and penalties and customer ramifications will be catastrophic.

 

[GTracing]

Is it fair to say that this could be the beginning of the end of Intel? This could bring them all the way down and take them out, right? If they have to replace 80% of 2 years worth of CPU sales, the costs and penalties and customer ramifications will be catastrophic.

This isn't going to "sink" Intel. It's not 2 years of CPU sales, it's 2 years of desktop CPU sales. Laptop and server both provide more revenue. Some laptop CPUs are affected, but most aren't. Also, a large portion of desktops CPUs are lower end CPUs that aren't stressed terribly hard and will survive until the warranty expires, so 80% seems high.

 

[Markfw]

This isn't going to "sink" Intel. It's not 2 years of CPU sales, it's 2 years of desktop CPU sales. Laptop and server both provide more revenue. Some laptop CPUs are affected, but most aren't. Also, a large portion of desktops CPUs are lower end CPUs that aren't stressed terribly hard and will survive until the warranty expires, so 80% seems high.

But it WILL hurt them. I agree that its big, but not that big. Look what the data problems were with meltdown/spectre, but they like, just patched.

 

[lucas122478]

I haven't got the time to read thru 53 pages of comments on this. But, I did read the first and last page and I see what I just read about it effecting 65W+ processors is actually being discussed here.

The last time I bought AMD was back in 2000 and it was a horrible experience. I am by no means a fanboy. I've just always went with INTEL because their chips just worked. I'm in the process of fixing to build a new rig and decided to give AMD another chance, basically 25 years later because their processers wouldn't blow the transformer on my street. I am just waiting on the release of the 9800X as the hearsay is it goes neck and neck with the 7800X3D but is 65W instead of 120W. Even though I have come to this conclusion to go with AMD, I still feel very uneasy because of the experience I had way back in 2000.

I have not actively bothered with overclocking since the mid 2000s. I just don't care to "eek" out that extra power for more frames per second. I always figured, If I need more frames per second, then I didn't buy a strong enough processor / GPU to begin with. Additionally, I always assumed that by default this stuff was turned off. What I am reading is some MOBO vendors actually have this all on by default and INTEL is in this hot mess because of that and their complacency to allow it to happen.

Personally, it is rubbing me a bit raw that INTEL is not issuing a recall on all chips that are currently in distributer/retail hands. Quite a few of their other supposeble comments to the email from the article i read earlier aren't setting well with me either.

Is this being overblown at least in regards to PC users like myself who don't care about overclocking? Or is this as DOOMSDAY as it is being relayed in the media? Is this a deal breaker for intel completely?

Additionally, considering this has been going on since 13th GEN and it took this LONG for it come into the limelight, I am also curious how this will effect the buying decision of everyone here moving forward?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

@lucas122478

This is 100% Intel's fault. Not the game devs. Not the board makers. Not the GPU vendors. Not the customers. Not the Loch Ness Monster; he just needs tree fiddy. Intel's fault, period. Nothing is being overblown. In fact, if anything the true extent is yet to be known. It's bad, real bad.

The Intel just works days are over. That reputation is in the dumpster fire now. This won't buff out. It's a permanent stain.

That gun shy feeling you have about AMD is what Intel gets to enjoy now. And saying something that happened almost a quarter of a century ago still gives you pause, is similar to saying you read The Jungle and are still not certain it is safe to eat meat. With the qualifier that it's even longer than that in tech years.

 

[Markfw]

I haven't got the time to read thru 53 pages of comments on this. But, I did read the first and last page and I see what I just read about it effecting 65W+ processors is actually being discussed here.

The last time I bought AMD was back in 2000 and it was a horrible experience. I am by no means a fanboy. I've just always went with INTEL because their chips just worked. I'm in the process of fixing to build a new rig and decided to give AMD another chance, basically 25 years later because their processers wouldn't blow the transformer on my street. I am just waiting on the release of the 9800X as the hearsay is it goes neck and neck with the 7800X3D but is 65W instead of 120W. Even though I have come to this conclusion to go with AMD, I still feel very uneasy because of the experience I had way back in 2000.

I have not actively bothered with overclocking since the mid 2000s. I just don't care to "eek" out that extra power for more frames per second. I always figured, If I need more frames per second, then I didn't buy a strong enough processor / GPU to begin with. Additionally, I always assumed that by default this stuff was turned off. What I am reading is some MOBO vendors actually have this all on by default and INTEL is in this hot mess because of that and their complacency to allow it to happen.

Personally, it is rubbing me a bit raw that INTEL is not issuing a recall on all chips that are currently in distributer/retail hands. Quite a few of their other supposeble comments to the email from the article i read earlier aren't setting well with me either.

Is this being overblown at least in regards to PC users like myself who don't care about overclocking? Or is this as DOOMSDAY as it is being relayed in the media? Is this a deal breaker for intel completely?

Additionally, considering this has been going on since 13th GEN and it took this LONG for it come into the limelight, I am also curious how this will effect the buying decision of everyone here moving forward?

First, AMD was the dumpster file from about 2006-2017. But since 2017 a lot has changed. If you want to go with a 7800x3d or a 9800x, wither way, and you don't care about overclocking, set the bios to ECO mode the 9800x may not even need that. Use a decent (as in $40 or less) air cooler. I promise you, you will be happy. as of late, AMD is the one that "just works", definitely NOT Intel. Read the Zen 4 or Zen 5 threads, and you will see I am right. And check the benchmarks on the web, taking note of power usage in particular.

 

[yottabit]

I feel like Intel saying the voltage spikes are a “key issue” of the instability is being pedantic and… creative in wording.

I’m only a laymen but I think it’s pretty obvious the “root cause” is electromigration/degradation CAUSED by these high voltages. High voltages don’t cause instability, they cause degradation. Degradation causes instability.

I guess saying “our CPUs are literally frying themselves due to an improper boost algorithm” doesn’t have the same ring to it

 

[maddie]

I feel like Intel saying the voltage spikes are a “key issue” of the instability is being pedantic and… creative in wording.

I’m only a laymen but I think it’s pretty obvious the “root cause” is electromigration/degradation CAUSED by these high voltages. High voltages don’t cause instability, they cause degradation. Degradation causes instability.

I guess saying “our CPUs are literally frying themselves due to an improper boost algorithm” doesn’t have the same ring to it

It seems that the world today is sophistry unleashed. Frustrates me no end.

 

[GTracing]

But it WILL hurt them. I agree that its big, but not that big. Look what the data problems were with meltdown/spectre, but they like, just patched.

Agreed, it'll hurt them both in the short term with the cost of all the RMAs, and in the long run with lost reputation.

 

[bigboxes]

I haven't got the time to read thru 53 pages of comments on this. But, I did read the first and last page and I see what I just read about it effecting 65W+ processors is actually being discussed here.

The last time I bought AMD was back in 2000 and it was a horrible experience. I am by no means a fanboy. I've just always went with INTEL because their chips just worked. I'm in the process of fixing to build a new rig and decided to give AMD another chance, basically 25 years later because their processers wouldn't blow the transformer on my street. I am just waiting on the release of the 9800X as the hearsay is it goes neck and neck with the 7800X3D but is 65W instead of 120W. Even though I have come to this conclusion to go with AMD, I still feel very uneasy because of the experience I had way back in 2000.

I have not actively bothered with overclocking since the mid 2000s. I just don't care to "eek" out that extra power for more frames per second. I always figured, If I need more frames per second, then I didn't buy a strong enough processor / GPU to begin with. Additionally, I always assumed that by default this stuff was turned off. What I am reading is some MOBO vendors actually have this all on by default and INTEL is in this hot mess because of that and their complacency to allow it to happen.

Personally, it is rubbing me a bit raw that INTEL is not issuing a recall on all chips that are currently in distributer/retail hands. Quite a few of their other supposeble comments to the email from the article i read earlier aren't setting well with me either.

Is this being overblown at least in regards to PC users like myself who don't care about overclocking? Or is this as DOOMSDAY as it is being relayed in the media? Is this a deal breaker for intel completely?

Additionally, considering this has been going on since 13th GEN and it took this LONG for it come into the limelight, I am also curious how this will effect the buying decision of everyone here moving forward?

Exactly what problems did you have in the year 2000 with AMD chips? I built my first computer in 2000. I used an Athlon Thunderbird processor running at 1.2Ghz. This replaced my Intel computer. AMD was the first to release a 1Ghz processor to the consumer market. I loved that CPU. It was so fast. Besides the terrible VIA chipset I had in my motherboard, I don't remember anything bad about the AMD part of it. So, what's your story?

 

[ikjadoon]

Intel admits 65w and no-K models are also affected
View attachment 103941

Lots more Q/A in post below

Intel confirms no recall for Raptor Lake CPUs, microcode won't fix affected units - VideoCardz.com

Intel finally provides a clearer overview of Raptor Lake instability issues No recall, no fix for affected CPUs, investigation still ongoing. Intel has responded to press inquiries about the instability issues affecting 13th and 14th Gen Core processors. Questions from The Verge to Intel were...

videocardz.com

This is interview with The Verge I posted, actually, though I didn't quite grasp this until now.

65W includes i3 and i5.
65W includes embedded CPUs.

Holy shit. That feels like the worst disclosure you could expect: that is millions of susceptible CPUs.

Q1 2023: 47M, 32% desktop = 15.04M
Q2 2023: 54M, 28% desktop = 15.12M
Q3 2023: 62M, 31% desktop = 19.22M
Q4 2023: 66M, 30% desktop = 19.80M
Q1 2024: 62M, 27% desktop = 16.74M
Total desktop client CPUs: 85.9M CPUs sold worldwide

Assume Intel has ~70% market share → 60.1 million CPUs are susceptible. This is mind-boggling. Even 1% would mean ~601K CPUs. This may well be higher as it doesn't include Q2 2024, which ended June 30, 2024.

If they ever disclose laptop CPUs with the same problem, that number will easily triple—notebooks have long, long outsold desktops by 2:1.

 

[lucas122478]

Exactly what problems did you have in the year 2000 with AMD chips? I built my first computer in 2000. I used an Athlon Thunderbird processor running at 1.2Ghz. This replaced my Intel computer. AMD was the first to release a 1Ghz processor to the consumer market. I loved that CPU. It was so fast. Besides the terrible VIA chipset I had in my motherboard, I don't remember anything bad about the AMD part of it. So, what's your story?

Bro, that was so long ago I don't remember details just that the first was DOA (replaced), the 2nd lasted less then a month (replaced), then the 3rd lasted a little over a year before it quit working. And yeah, it gives me pause, I don't mean I'm breaking out into hives and huffing into a paper bag lol. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't still a little shy.

That's why I'm in here asking the questions, I am asking. Some of the folks in here are going to be leaps and bounds smarter than I am, more informed, etc. I wouldn't call myself the average desktop user, but I wouldn't really call myself enthusiast-level either. Kind of sitting inbetween.

 

[lucas122478]

This is interview with The Verge I posted, actually, though I didn't quite grasp this until now.

65W includes i3 and i5.
65W includes embedded CPUs.

Holy shit. That feels like the worst disclosure you could expect: that is millions of susceptible CPUs.

Q1 2023: 47M, 32% desktop = 15.04M
Q2 2023: 54M, 28% desktop = 15.12M
Q3 2023: 62M, 31% desktop = 19.22M
Q4 2023: 66M, 30% desktop = 19.80M
Q1 2024: 62M, 27% desktop = 16.74M
Total desktop client CPUs: 85.9M CPUs sold worldwide

Assume Intel has ~70% market share → 60.1 million CPUs are susceptible. This is mind-boggling. Even 1% would mean ~601K CPUs. This may well be higher as it doesn't include Q2 2024, which ended June 30, 2024.

If they ever disclose laptop CPUs with the same problem, that number will easily triple—notebooks have long, long outsold desktops by 2:1.

Article I read, they did not outright deny that it affected laptops.... Since they danced around it with this response.

quote from the article where they asked intel questions in an email an this was the response:

Why does Intel believe the instability issues do not affect mobile laptop chips?

Intel is continuing its investigation to ensure that reported instability scenarios on Intel Core 13th/14th Gen processors are properly addressed.

This includes ongoing analysis to confirm the primary factors preventing 13th / 14th Gen mobile processor exposure to the same instability issue as the 13th/14th Gen desktop processors.

 

[In2Photos]

Bro, that was so long ago I don't remember details just that the first was DOA (replaced), the 2nd lasted less then a month (replaced), then the 3rd lasted a little over a year before it quit working. And yeah, it gives me pause, I don't mean I'm breaking out into hives and huffing into a paper bag lol. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't still a little shy.

That's why I'm in here asking the questions, I am asking. Some of the folks in here are going to be leaps and bounds smarter than I am, more informed, etc. I wouldn't call myself the average desktop user, but I wouldn't really call myself enthusiast-level either. Kind of sitting inbetween.

I currently have 3 AMD desktops in my household. All 3 have been rock solid. I have zero issues recommending them to others as well. That being said I have had several Intel systems over the years that never gave me trouble either. I've had hard drives fail, and PSUs go bad, but I've been pretty lucky with CPUs, mobos and the like. Don't sweat the decision too much. We can help you pick the parts and make sure you get what you need.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Bro, that was so long ago I don't remember details just that the first was DOA (replaced), the 2nd lasted less then a month (replaced), then the 3rd lasted a little over a year before it quit working.

Spoiler: My AMD experience thus far

I bought a Sempron 2 GHz (during the Athlon 64 days) purely for overclocking and enjoying "free" performance. Tried overclocking it on the cheap AOpen mobo I bought with it. It blew up or something. Never posted again. That was my shortest jubilation upon assembling a PC in my life

Took it back to the shopkeeper. He obviously asked me, did you do anything weird with it? I had to lie through my teeth coz I didn't have enough money to replace a whole mobo. He offered me an ASUS mobo for a bit more money minus the difference I had already paid. I happily accepted and the AOpen mobo was sent for RMA. Assembled the ASUS back home, still didn't want to lose out on the free performance and overclocked the Sempron again. This time it worked and I got sweet, sweet 3 GHz out of it. I was obviously ecstatic. But I couldn't rejoice for long. I was almost 26 and had to get out into the cruel world to make a living so left it with my family for them to use (still overclocked). When I returned after a year for a visit, the PC had badly degraded. USB ports not working. A lot of hitching during normal use. Clearly the chipset wasn't overbuilt to sustain a high FSB for prolonged periods. Family threw it away probably and got some cheap Intel Core 2 Duo PC.

I know it was my fault for pushing it too high but it was super sweet while it lasted and I greatly enjoyed the smoothness it brought to my computing experience. Now I have three AM3+ mobos and maybe an FX-6300 that I haven't used and also a nice ASROCK Fatal1ty mobo with 2700X (also unused). And a 128 thread Zen 2 on an ASROCK server mobo that was worth every penny I put into it. 9800X3D could be in my future if I'm feeling bored some day and manage to kill my 12700K using Intel XTU

I did spend quality time with a lovely HP 13 inch Ryzen 5825U laptop for a few days that I stressed crazy hard (made its iGPU run 4K benchmarks!). Whatever I did, the pretty little thing didn't squeak, it didn't get crazy hot like an Intel laptop and the fan noise was minimum, way lower than I'm used to from Intel laptops. My only regret was that I didn't own that laptop