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Intel Pentium 650 3.4GHz vs. Intel Pentium 830 3GHz -- Software Development Environment

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Originally posted by: nobrainerdeals
thanks redhatlinux for the reiteration. haha.

yea, i would like to compile my apps while i'm doing photoshop or something else without it lagging. from my experience, the P4 w/HT seems pretty good about lag already. I've used a P4 3.0GHz w/HT and there isn't too much lag with multitasking.

looks like i'll be getting a dimension 9100 with a 3.0GHz Pentium D. i don't think i'm ready to cross over the AMD side yet, even though there is so much rave about amd x2's. i've had terrible past experiences.

thanks everyone!
Click to expand...

Best of luck..you will probably need it..
 
Originally posted by: Markfw900
Originally posted by: nobrainerdeals
thanks redhatlinux for the reiteration. haha.

yea, i would like to compile my apps while i'm doing photoshop or something else without it lagging. from my experience, the P4 w/HT seems pretty good about lag already. I've used a P4 3.0GHz w/HT and there isn't too much lag with multitasking.

looks like i'll be getting a dimension 9100 with a 3.0GHz Pentium D. i don't think i'm ready to cross over the AMD side yet, even though there is so much rave about amd x2's. i've had terrible past experiences.

thanks everyone!
Click to expand...

OK, well after my experiance, lets say you have been warned. The worst actually is the throttleing, and with the best air cooling available I have to leave the case cover off to even get it to not throttle over 3.0 !
Click to expand...

Mark, remember those 4 PD830 systems I told you about a while back? Well, they are still running perfectly and never throttling. Case covers on, heavy multithreaded apps running all day long. and sometimes all night. They are good CPU's, albeit definately not the best. That's all I have to say.

 
keysplayr2003, at stock ? and how do you know they aren't throttleing ? Duvie and I found out last night that CPUZ and throttlewatch don't show it, but S&M does. Check his review of my rig thread.

If they are at stock, in and air conditioned environment, shure I could see how with good air cooling they may not throttle. Point is, that is pathetic performance and a lot of heat, and a lot of power consumtion. We have been trying to conserve enery for years, and these puppies just took us back 10-20 years in that area. And the power consumption is FACT. I bought this 820D just so I could be objective, and I even have a witness with hands on experience (Duvie).

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am going to warn any new prospective buyer. I feel it is my duty after this experience. You save $100 up front, and you have pathetic performance for a year, and by then you lost the $100 in electric bills by then anyway !!

whatever....
 
Originally posted by: Markfw900
keysplayr2003, at stock ? and how do you know they aren't throttleing ? Duvie and I found out last night that CPUZ and throttlewatch don't show it, but S&M does. Check his review of my rig thread.

If they are at stock, in and air conditioned environment, shure I could see how with good air cooling they may not throttle. Point is, that is pathetic performance and a lot of heat, and a lot of power consumtion. We have been trying to conserve enery for years, and these puppies just took us back 10-20 years in that area. And the power consumption is FACT. I bought this 820D just so I could be objective, and I even have a witness with hands on experience (Duvie).

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am going to warn any new prospective buyer. I feel it is my duty after this experience. You save $100 up front, and you have pathetic performance for a year, and by then you lost the $100 in electric bills by then anyway !!

whatever....
Click to expand...

Yes they are stock. Air conditioned environment to 70F. And I know they don't throttle because they never get near the temp that is required for throttling. Which I believe is around 70C. All 4 rigs run around 62-64C at full load. The performance is not pathetic. You are exaggerating quite a bit. Performance is actually quite good. And the price was nice. Electric bills really don't concern us but I'm sure it does for some. After all it's only 4 machines. Some people may have hundreds of systems and I can see a major power consumption issue in that case.

And this has little to do with opinions. I'm pointing out facts to you. This is not what I think, but what I have observed. NO DOUBT, that AMD is superior in performance and lower heat and power consumption. Not arguing that. I'm just trying to discuss this with you. No need to get so incredibly heated about a piece of silicon. Agreed?

 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Yes they are stock. Air conditioned environment to 70F. And I know they don't throttle because they never get near the temp that is required for throttling. Which I believe is around 70C. All 4 rigs run around 62-64C at full load.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you check Mark's and Duvie's posts about the 820D, the throttle level varies with vcore. Namely, higher vcore = lower throttling temps, I think. If you're running them at stock, they may not throttle at all. 70C is the shutdown temp.

 
Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Yes they are stock. Air conditioned environment to 70F. And I know they don't throttle because they never get near the temp that is required for throttling. Which I believe is around 70C. All 4 rigs run around 62-64C at full load.
Click to expand...

Actually, if you check Mark's and Duvie's posts about the 820D, the throttle level varies with vcore. Namely, higher vcore = lower throttling temps, I think. If you're running them at stock, they may not throttle at all. 70C is the shutdown temp.
Click to expand...

They are all stock clocked. And they are 830D's. Mark and Duvie's posts show that these are not the CPU's to get for great O/C'ing and increasing voltages and running out of spec.. But stock clocked, they are just fine.

 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Markfw900
keysplayr2003, at stock ? and how do you know they aren't throttleing ? Duvie and I found out last night that CPUZ and throttlewatch don't show it, but S&M does. Check his review of my rig thread.

If they are at stock, in and air conditioned environment, shure I could see how with good air cooling they may not throttle. Point is, that is pathetic performance and a lot of heat, and a lot of power consumtion. We have been trying to conserve enery for years, and these puppies just took us back 10-20 years in that area. And the power consumption is FACT. I bought this 820D just so I could be objective, and I even have a witness with hands on experience (Duvie).

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am going to warn any new prospective buyer. I feel it is my duty after this experience. You save $100 up front, and you have pathetic performance for a year, and by then you lost the $100 in electric bills by then anyway !!

whatever....
Click to expand...

Yes they are stock. Air conditioned environment to 70F. And I know they don't throttle because they never get near the temp that is required for throttling. Which I believe is around 70C. All 4 rigs run around 62-64C at full load. The performance is not pathetic. You are exaggerating quite a bit. Performance is actually quite good. And the price was nice. Electric bills really don't concern us but I'm sure it does for some. After all it's only 4 machines. Some people may have hundreds of systems and I can see a major power consumption issue in that case.

And this has little to do with opinions. I'm pointing out facts to you. This is not what I think, but what I have observed. NO DOUBT, that AMD is superior in performance and lower heat and power consumption. Not arguing that. I'm just trying to discuss this with you. No need to get so incredibly heated about a piece of silicon. Agreed?
Click to expand...

Wrong again !!! We saw throttleing at 60c ! come on over ! I already have a winess, do you ?

Edit: I do know that at stock they MIGHT not throttle, but with stock cooling it is a possibility. Also, performnce ? I will be updating my other post today. My 3800+ finished a rendering job in 11 1/2 hours. The 820 is still running after 13, and has a ways to go yet. Same input file. Thats at 3.5, and not throttleing, and max temp 55c. (case cover off). I'm not getting that excited about a piece of silicon, but after you deal with this chip from personal experience after a while, its maddening. And if you get more than 3 or 4 things going, it really slows down.

I do see that you agree the X2 is better and cooler, but you really need to look at the list of downsides before it really becomes apparant how pathetic the 820 is.
 
Originally posted by: Markfw900
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Markfw900
keysplayr2003, at stock ? and how do you know they aren't throttleing ? Duvie and I found out last night that CPUZ and throttlewatch don't show it, but S&M does. Check his review of my rig thread.

If they are at stock, in and air conditioned environment, shure I could see how with good air cooling they may not throttle. Point is, that is pathetic performance and a lot of heat, and a lot of power consumtion. We have been trying to conserve enery for years, and these puppies just took us back 10-20 years in that area. And the power consumption is FACT. I bought this 820D just so I could be objective, and I even have a witness with hands on experience (Duvie).

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am going to warn any new prospective buyer. I feel it is my duty after this experience. You save $100 up front, and you have pathetic performance for a year, and by then you lost the $100 in electric bills by then anyway !!

whatever....
Click to expand...

Yes they are stock. Air conditioned environment to 70F. And I know they don't throttle because they never get near the temp that is required for throttling. Which I believe is around 70C. All 4 rigs run around 62-64C at full load. The performance is not pathetic. You are exaggerating quite a bit. Performance is actually quite good. And the price was nice. Electric bills really don't concern us but I'm sure it does for some. After all it's only 4 machines. Some people may have hundreds of systems and I can see a major power consumption issue in that case.

And this has little to do with opinions. I'm pointing out facts to you. This is not what I think, but what I have observed. NO DOUBT, that AMD is superior in performance and lower heat and power consumption. Not arguing that. I'm just trying to discuss this with you. No need to get so incredibly heated about a piece of silicon. Agreed?
Click to expand...

Wrong again !!! We saw throttleing at 60c ! come on over ! I already have a winess, do you ?

Edit: I do know that at stock they MIGHT not throttle, but with stock cooling it is a possibility. Also, performnce ? I will be updating my other post today. My 3800+ finished a rendering job in 11 1/2 hours. The 820 is still running after 13, and has a ways to go yet. Same input file. Thats at 3.5, and not throttleing, and max temp 55c. (case cover off). I'm not getting that excited about a piece of silicon, but after you deal with this chip from personal experience after a while, its maddening. And if you get more than 3 or 4 things going, it really slows down.

I do see that you agree the X2 is better and cooler, but you really need to look at the list of downsides before it really becomes apparant how pathetic the 820 is.
Click to expand...

Would you mind not being so obnoxious please. Have a discussion. Not a pissing contest. (I am referring to the "Wrong again!!!!") Please chill.
Throttling at 55C and 60C probably has a lot to do with you messing with voltages. The CPU/Mobo may not be reporting temps correctly. What more do you want Mark? AMD's are faster. I already stated this numerous times. NOBODY is arguing this. I'm saying the Intel chip is not the terrible chip you make it out to be. My programmers are loving theirs. (They don't know what they're missing would be your next comment I'm sure.)

They are working fine, no probs, no issues, everyone gets their work done easily. What's the big deal?

 
Keys. I could get my work done at my regular job with a 1 ghz system, single core so long as it had a 40 gig HD, and a gig of ram.

I am talking about consumers, most of which are these kids that can't afford a 3800 (or think they can afford an 820). For what they do, the 820D might seem OK, especially with the crap reviews I keep refuting, but the bottom line is, that in the end, THEY won't save a dime in the long run, and end up with a much poorer performing system.

And your AC'ed work environment at 70F (lower than my house) helps also with heat, and you don't have to pay the electric bill. Consumers do.
 
Well, if you were to put in accurate numbers on how much extra money it would cost to run an 820D system over a 3800+ system for a home consumer, it might help your argument a bit. If the cost is laughable, like an extra 20 bucks a year, instead of the 100.00 you stated, then it really isn't an issue. Is there a way you can find out how much (exactly) the running cost difference is? That would be kind of difficult I would think.
 
I know that my Athlon 64 systems cost me about $12 a month. Based on published facts on the 820 power consumption, I estimate its usage at about $20 a month 24/7 = $96, and that doesn't count the extra AC to cool the beast in the summer, which can be a fair amount also.
 
Originally posted by: nobrainerdeals
thanks redhatlinux for the reiteration. haha.

yea, i would like to compile my apps while i'm doing photoshop or something else without it lagging. from my experience, the P4 w/HT seems pretty good about lag already. I've used a P4 3.0GHz w/HT and there isn't too much lag with multitasking.

looks like i'll be getting a dimension 9100 with a 3.0GHz Pentium D. i don't think i'm ready to cross over the AMD side yet, even though there is so much rave about amd x2's. i've had terrible past experiences.

thanks everyone!
Click to expand...


Yeah... that's a good buy.

They come in BTX form factor, and are really nice. If you liked the multitasking on P4 3.0Ghz, then by all means get the Pentium D.

A buddy of mine got a Dell 9100. VERY quiet and can't argue with speed, if you aren't a gamer.

If you'd like to take a chance, you should check out HP's Athlon 64 solutions. I've read really good reviews on those systems, and they might come in a far cheaper than the Dell on a base config.

Good luck.
 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

They are working fine, no probs, no issues, everyone gets their work done easily. What's the big deal?
Click to expand...

In an environment with a small number of the chips operating, there isn't a big deal if everyone's happy with what they're using.

In an environment with dozens, if not hundreds of the CPUs running(either in clusters or just large groups of workstations/servers/what have you), the power consumption of the chip starts to matter. It's one of the same reasons why Itaniums haven't garnerd more popularity. The power consumption of the chip makes it cost-prohibitive to use in the long-term.

The 830Ds are obviously working in your current scenario, and with only 4 of them deployed, their power consumption will likely not be much of an issue unless they're bumping your electric bill up $50+ per year.
 
Hell, I agree that the X2's are faster and run cooler and offer more bang for the buck.

No argument there and there never was one.

I just like Intel.

Just like I like lots of other brands, and I buy what I like.

That doesn't mean I am crazy enough to buy a P4EE though.....
 
Wow this thread went on a tangent a hair.

My recommendation = AMD X2 3800+.

Why? - Because AMD 64's kick the living holy hell out of intel in most compiling tasks. (See just about any benchmark on any site for proof. Better yet, try it yourself 🙂 )Software Dev. tasks seem much smoother on my A-64 system than intel based ones. (In my owm personal experience. )

For small projects we might only be talking a difference of a second or two between the A64/P4, but that extra second does make the system seem snappier, and ultimately leads to a smoother better feeling computing experience, which is what you want when you hunker down for a nice long session of coding.

My .02

People have been arguing the same old crap this whole thread. Oh the P-D is tooo hot! Intel Sux! Oh The P-D uses more electricity! Intel Sux!

While those facts are true, to me they take a back seat to the overall user experience. Currently for what you are looking to do all AMD/Intel Fanboism aside, I believe AMD X2 is the present route to go.
 
Why does the post have to get into an AMD vs Intel battle. That was never asked, AMD wasn't an option. BTW one or two home built systems with the user bent on OCing do not make a good sample.
 
Originally posted by: redhatlinux
Why does the post have to get into an AMD vs Intel battle. That was never asked, AMD wasn't an option. BTW one or two home built systems with the user bent on OCing do not make a good sample.
Click to expand...

Why not? Are you going to say that the best OCing motherboards are not the most reliable for most cases? And the OP asked for our advice. We gave it as we saw fit.
 
Originally posted by: redhatlinux
Why does the post have to get into an AMD vs Intel battle. That was never asked, AMD wasn't an option. BTW one or two home built systems with the user bent on OCing do not make a good sample.
Click to expand...


It isn't necessarily that. He ignored any and all Xeon options, for example. I'm not sure how well old Northwood-era(Prestonia?) dual-Xeon machines would stack up against the 830D, but I'm betting that power consumption and heat output would be lower on an old Xeon duallie rig.
 
I've got an Atlas 15k II right here, barely above room temperature to the touch. But it was more to do with the "snap" that people were remarking about 😉 Actually, it's darn quiet too.
 
Originally posted by: mechBgon
I've got an Atlas 15k II right here, barely above room temperature to the touch. But it was more to do with the "snap" that people were remarking about 😉 Actually, it's darn quiet too.
Click to expand...

Hmm, seriously? I had an old 4 gig WD UW-SCSI drive back in the day when I was stipud enough to get a SCSI setup for my home box(didnt' help anywhere near as much as I thought it would), and it was a real heater. After years of faithful service, it started acting up, apparently from prolonged overheating.

I'll tell you what, though, seeing below 1% CPU utilization during heavy drive access on a k6-233 was really nice *P
 
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