Dothan is for laptops. Using it on the desktop right now is a niche toy for someone with too much time and $ on their hands. P/P wise it is lousy.
Trust me, it isn't just here
Dothan is for laptops. Using it on the desktop right now is a niche toy for someone with too much time and $ on their hands. P/P wise it is lousy.
Trust me, it isn't just here
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
Ok, there is a lot of crap going around here.
First of all, the AXP was never meant to compete with the Revision C northwoods processors. It was made to compete with the Revision B processors. AMD, in a last ditch attempt, upped the FSB of the Barton core to 400mhz to try to compete better, but it didn't do much. Therefore they just lowered prices by a lot. That was the AMD processors major selling point in the AXP era.
Dothan, no matter, how much people want to say it, is no ultimate processor. Yes, very impressive in that it uses so little power. However, it has weak ALUs (Arithmetic Logic Units) and weak FPU (Floating Point Unit) performance. While it is very fast in gaming, it is very slow in Encode/Decode, Mathmatical COpmutations (SuperPi). If Intel were to release this to the desktop they would of course correct all these issues and add all the features such as SSE3, because only drawing 25Watt of power is not a big concern in the desktop market.
Dothan CAN outperform the A64 if clocked high enough. Dothan, though intel will not release it, is thought to have an instruction pipeline somewhere below the length of the A64s, and above the length of the AXP's. THerefore it executes more IPC than the A64, so it doesn't need to scale as high (clockspeed wise) to reach the A64. I would definitely not say it beats the A64, as the only really strong area is gaming and general usage (and of course the superb power draw). A64 is good in all areas not just one or two, which is perfectly acceptable seeing as the Dothan was never meant to be the fastest out there, it was meant to consume the least power while giving the best performance. Additionally, while the Dothans beat the A64's, they barely beat them. If you were to move the resolution up to where normal people play, and crank the IQ settings the performance difference would be next to nothing.
The Turion is not a Dothan killer. It is merely a specially binned A64 that was particularly well constructed and can run at extremely low voltages (30-35Watt). Therefore they will be slower than the regular A64's yet consume ~10Watt more power than Dothan.
Finally, 64bit computing has not faded. It is still very much in the works. However, the market has just shifted to Dual Core processors, and multi-threaded applications. Just give everything time.
-Kevin
First of all, the AXP was never meant to compete with the Revision C northwoods processors. It was made to compete with the Revision B processors. AMD, in a last ditch attempt, upped the FSB of the Barton core to 400mhz to try to compete better, but it didn't do much. Therefore they just lowered prices by a lot. That was the AMD processors major selling point in the AXP era.
Dothan, no matter, how much people want to say it, is no ultimate processor. Yes, very impressive in that it uses so little power. However, it has weak ALUs (Arithmetic Logic Units) and weak FPU (Floating Point Unit) performance. While it is very fast in gaming, it is very slow in Encode/Decode, Mathmatical COpmutations (SuperPi). If Intel were to release this to the desktop they would of course correct all these issues and add all the features such as SSE3, because only drawing 25Watt of power is not a big concern in the desktop market.
Dothan CAN outperform the A64 if clocked high enough. Dothan, though intel will not release it, is thought to have an instruction pipeline somewhere below the length of the A64s, and above the length of the AXP's. THerefore it executes more IPC than the A64, so it doesn't need to scale as high (clockspeed wise) to reach the A64. I would definitely not say it beats the A64, as the only really strong area is gaming and general usage (and of course the superb power draw). A64 is good in all areas not just one or two, which is perfectly acceptable seeing as the Dothan was never meant to be the fastest out there, it was meant to consume the least power while giving the best performance. Additionally, while the Dothans beat the A64's, they barely beat them. If you were to move the resolution up to where normal people play, and crank the IQ settings the performance difference would be next to nothing.
The Turion is not a Dothan killer. It is merely a specially binned A64 that was particularly well constructed and can run at extremely low voltages (30-35Watt). Therefore they will be slower than the regular A64's yet consume ~10Watt more power than Dothan.
Finally, 64bit computing has not faded. It is still very much in the works. However, the market has just shifted to Dual Core processors, and multi-threaded applications. Just give everything time.
-Kevin
It certainly is niche but that's because people just don't know and/or are AMD fanboys.
What you're saying is simply flat out inaccurate.
Extra time?
How much extra time exactly do you need to put a CT-479 adapter between a Dothan and 479 socket? 15 seconds if you have any hand-eye coordination. In the extreme case where you wanted to use a non-Asus fan/heatsink it would take at *most* 15 minutes to install a Zalman 7000 by flipping the restraining bar or about 0 seconds on the Zalman 7700 to install the the bars on either side upside down. THAT'S IT for additional time and effort. If that's something that sounds daunting then maybe that person shouldn't be building computers, God knows 3/4 of the assclowns on these boards spend more time than that running SuperPi and getting hard-ons over their scores.
Price?
It simply doesn't cost significantly more than the closest performing A64 system. In fact a Pentium-M 740 (easily run to 2.5-2.6Ghz) with CT-479 adapter costs about $25 more than the cheapest San Diego A64 939 (easily run to 2.6Ghz) processor. Motherboard prices are a wash as you can pick one up as cheap or as expensive as you want.
Basically, all the Dothan hate is coming from uninformed people. It simply takes no more time or money to run a Dothan desktop system versus an A64 system and since it outperforms any A64 for office, web, and gaming a logical user interested in those areas would seek out the best given that every other consideration is equal. And then just to put the icing on the cake the Dothan's thermal characteristics are unmatched by anything Intel or AMD is putting out today which means that you can have a quieter system to boot.
We've covered all this already. Again:
No one is saying the Dothan is a perfect processor, but in office, web, and gaming, clock for clock it puts the A64 firmly behind it (a lot more than barely.) The A64 is a better processor if you want to encode and have top tier all around performance in everything. If you don't give a crap about encoding, etc then there's no reason to sacrifice the superior performance of the Dothan in the areas mentioned above just to have a good all around CPU. As to gaming at certain resolution that depends on the card, game, and resolution. If you're going to pair a superior processor for gaming with an inadequate video solution for whatever game/res you're gonna play then that really isn't the processor's fault, but rather a user who maybe should spend more time reading up before building a system.
The Turion is a waste. It is a hackneyed competitor to the Dothan that is simply impractical on the desktop given what AMD already has out there.
Finally, 64-bit computing is a waste for almost everyone. No killer apps anyone is using, driver problems (both no drivers and if there are drivers often with reduced functionality over the 32-bit ones) and incompatibilities with a WIDE range of applications. It's still years away. 64-bit is all hype, I dumped that waste of hard drive space and am now solely using Pro.
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
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It does not put it firmly behind. Additionally, Dothans superior performance is marginal at best. It NEVER slaughters the A64. Dont try to tell me that the P-M wins by such a large margin that it is a better deal over the A64. CLock for clock or the amount of Instructions exectued per clock... the Dothan is BARELY ahead of the A64. Like i said it has a greater number than the AXP but a lower number than the A64.
Not to mention that the processor itself is extremely expensive.
Stop spreading crap Bar81. Anyone who says that Dothan is a much better deal, and that it definitively beats the A64, truley knows nothing about Processors.
-Kevin
Bar81, please just go to P&N. You'll fit in fine.
Anyone who flames like this loses my respect, and thus does no good for whatver opinion to which he is fanatically connected.
Anyone who flames like this loses my respect, and thus does no good for whatver opinion to which he is fanatically connected.
Buy yourself a clue and stop talking out of your butt. You're the one spreading crap. Your "arguments" have been disproven repeatedly. Now go back and troll with the rest of your AMD fanboy crew.
Anyone who comes into a thread to take pot shots at a poster needs to get the f out the thread. If you don't like flaming then maybe you should get off the internet as that's what happens on 100% of public boards. And I couldn't care less about your worthless respect. Blow me.
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
Awww whats wrong Bar.... a little annoyed. Having to resort to flaming now because we have proven you wrong time and again.
My arguments have been disproven huh? Funny, why do the review sites agree with me then. Additionally, how am I an AMD fanboy, when the only thing i recommend for laptops is Pentium-M's.
Come on now... do yourself a favor and logout.
-Kevin
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
I suppose youll flame me, and say that no reviewers agree so ill just post the links for you
Xbit Labs Bench with Socket Adapter
Anandtech Bench
I can post more if i need to.
Oh and you say that Dothan isn't that expensive...
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=1157&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=509%3A7005&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&description=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=343&Submit=Property[/L
[L=Monarch Link... this one includes Banias]http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_C
de=M&Category_Code=intelcpu-pm">Newegg Link</a>
Notice that neither of these include the fastest processor. Additionally nothing but the top 2 speed grades of Pentium M's really challenge the A64's... especially price wise.
-Kevin
Xbit Labs Bench with Socket Adapter
Anandtech Bench
I can post more if i need to.
Oh and you say that Dothan isn't that expensive...
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=1157&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=509%3A7005&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&description=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=343&Submit=Property[/L
[L=Monarch Link... this one includes Banias]http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_C
de=M&Category_Code=intelcpu-pm">Newegg Link</a>
Notice that neither of these include the fastest processor. Additionally nothing but the top 2 speed grades of Pentium M's really challenge the A64's... especially price wise.
-Kevin
The facts and numbers are in front of you as are my previous posts. There's really nothing more I can do for you. If you're gonna be a fanboy there's nothing I can post that's going to change your mind. Thing is though, no matter how hard your pathetic self tries, you can't change the truth, your special A64 just isn't the best thing out there and it gets pushed into an obvious second place in office, web, and gaming. The Dothan costs the same, is as easy to set up and has vastly superior thermal characteristics to boot. Non-fanboys get that while you, sadly, never will.
So, I just went to newegg, and looked at the prices, a 2,2GHz Athlon 64 3500+ is $250 while a 1,8GHz Pentium M 745 is $290 and a 2.1GHz Pentium M 765 is $650.
From most of the things/benchmarks I've seen, the Dothan and the A64 perform about the same, losing some, winning some at relatively same clocks, so the A64 is better value for money if taken performance for dollar wise. And come on, this A64's don't run that hot, nowhere near a prescott, you can get away with just a heatsink fan combo (and a quiet one at that if you shop around).
From most of the things/benchmarks I've seen, the Dothan and the A64 perform about the same, losing some, winning some at relatively same clocks, so the A64 is better value for money if taken performance for dollar wise. And come on, this A64's don't run that hot, nowhere near a prescott, you can get away with just a heatsink fan combo (and a quiet one at that if you shop around).
and i could also buy a 2500-m and overclock that to 2.5ghz no problem.
yonah will not have em64t.
Perhaps you missed the part where intel compilers automatically disable sse support for non- Genuine Intel parts. link
and you have what evidence of this? How about Link or two?
ipc is not related to pipeline length. Completely wrong.
its termal characteristics aren't that much better the venice or san diego, especailly not when overclocking and throwing on the volts.
Did I ever say you couldn't?
I really don't care if it does; But Intel has promised since mid-2004 that Yonah would include EM64T support. Whether the initial revision does or not is another story. But I expect it will eventually.
Unfortunately, you're wrong. Dothan has superior thermals to both of those AMD cores. Do you see any laptops using Venice or San Diego core processors? Do you know why?
Turion has similiar thermal characteristics to Dothan but the one that could match it (the MT revision) is nowhere to be found. The few laptops that are shipping with a Turion are all using the ML revision which simply can't match Dothan in the thermal arena.
I don't get it.. I went from a 2.4B @ 2.9 GHZ to my Barton 2500+ and could not have been happier.. the P4 sucked for most things. I just plain hated that system, on a crappy EPOX motherboard too.... blah.
ive just read the whole thread, and i must say, why are you still posting?
Now i dont hold a biased view, i had been an Intel user up untill last year, where i then switched to a 64 3200+.
I am now upgrading my system to socket 939, and after looking around and reading every review i could and holding an unbiased opinion (i just want the best processor, no matter who makes it) it was clear to me to stick with AMD (im not even getting dual core yet).
I even looked into the Pentium M's and realized it was a waste of money for little performance gain in one area and a loss of performance in another
honestly, why are you making a huge deal out of it, your coming off as a 10 year old that needs to have the last word, even if it is a line of garbage.
The pentium M is no better then a A64
Its like trying to argue an X800 over a 6800GT, each one excels over the other in certain areas, so you have to make a decision based on price (so compared to a Pentium M, the a64 would win, as its cheaper)
Maybe next time i upgrade, Intel will have better chips, but i dont know, as the dual core AMD's seem to be the leaders right now...............
Intel has been sayin the opposite, actually. Unless you have credible links that show otherwise.
the san diego and venice only use about 10-15 more volts than dothan at load, and once you run up the clockspeed and the volts, the difference is only 20-30% or so, which really isn't that much compared to other processors, and certainly not enough to be a substantial factor in a purchase.
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
No kidding the facts and numbers are in front of me... I POSTED THEM. And if you look at them they support my position in every way.
Dothan does not cost the same. The only 2 Dothan processors that compete with the A64's are >$500. Not to mention you have to find a chipset, or buy the adapter.
Additionally, thermals are not "vastly superior". While the Pentium M does hold a very large advantage, the A64 runs extremely cool as well. Power Consumption, yes we are talking ~30Watt-45Watt (Load) vs 85Watt load.
In case you didn't notice i dont even own one. I am using an Athlon XP OCed. So, if you think your insulting of a computer chip hurts me in the least, you are sadly mistaken.
Ooh, because im sure those extra frames in firefox, and Microsoft Word really matter :roll: Additionally, all those office productivity benchmarks are purely synthetic.
The games, yes, it does beat the A64. As shown in my links, unless you care about 5fps, the difference is virtually nothing, and well within the margin of error.
When was the last time there was a hard CPU to set up
?Once again, everything i have posted is backed up in its entirety in the links i provided. I dont care if you refute what i say, but now you are just blatantly trolling. Why dont you post some links then, huh? I backed up my argument, if you are so sure im wrong why dont you do the same??
-Kevin
You can Google yourself and find several links showing Intel planning EM64T for Yonah as far back as mid-2004.
The current consensus appears to be that Intel decided against EM64T for the Yonah because it would increase the die size and thermals. And the demand for 64-bit computing in the mobile category is very, very low. Makes sense. Merom is listed on the roadmap as EM64T compatible. We'll see.
Again, I ask you, where are those Venice and San Diego core laptops?
You should be banned because you're a jerk (this is just from reading this thread).
Why would someone pay such a price premium for a low voltage, low temp chip when you can save a HELLA lot of money by buying a voltage hungry, heat producing desktop A64 that will (in the real world) beat the mobile chip.
Bar81 = Dothan fanboi (we should ignore him)
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