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Intel Offering Online Course on AMD's Speed Rating System...seats available :)

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Intel had planned to use the high clocking Pentium 4 to push AMD out of the market, as prices used to be based on megahurtz. It worked for a couple quarters, but Intel either did not expect AMD to use a PR rating, or they did not anticipate the success of a AMD's PR rating. It is not the PR rating that made the old Cyrix and AMD chips fail, it was ultimately the poor chips themselves.

Now Intel is afraid that AMD could use the PR rating anyway they wish, so that AMD will never appear to have an inferior product, even if they do. In reality, the consumer will always decide, and great website such as Anandtech will report the truth in benchmarks.
 


<< That's why I got a P4 to do my DVD encoding >>



Can someone link me to more info on DVD/Divx encoding. I hear the terms, and have just started to take interest.

Sorry for OT.
 
LOL 😀

Seriously, guys, it's just marketing. AMD probably has loads of similiar FUD floating around, especially with Sanders' notorious disdain for Intel. 🙂
 
Yeah, I have to agree with Pab on that one. Both companies are equally good at spreading FUD. Although most of the anti-Intel crap comes straight outta Jerry's mouth and not AMD as a whole (gotta love Jerry's metaphors though)😀. I will say this though, Intel says that Mhz is an accurate measure of performance...let's test that theory out. Let's benchmark the following processors:

1.4Ghz Athlon vs. 1.4Ghz Willamette
1.53Ghz Athlon vs. 1.5Ghz Willamette
1.6Ghz Athlon vs. 1.6Ghz Northwood
1.7Ghz Athlon vs. 1.7Ghz Northwood


You tell me which chips would benchmark faster regardless of who's doing the benchmarking. I doubt SSE2 could even save Intel from being embarrassed.
 


<< That's why I got a P4 to do my DVD encoding,I didnt need my room catching fire

LOL, I feel you on that one. I had an XP 1800+ and while it was fast, the heat and noise was really starting to piss me off. I switched over to P4 and couldn't be happier, while my wallet feel's a little thin at the moment, it's nothing you can't recover from. In the end it's worth it, once you've spent a fat load of money on a system that's VERY quiet, fast as hell and more reliable than a pay check, you really dont feel the need to upgrade for quite some time. >>



You're talking about a CPU....not a COOLER !

The decision to "switch to P4" because "the 1800 was hot and noisy"...admittably amazes me. I dont say that the NW P4 is a bad cpu, especially overclocked....but just a LITTLE bit research before purchasing/buying your AMD system would have resulted in the amazing discovery that you can buy a QUIET and very effective AMD cooler for about 40 bucks. (Eg. alpha pal 8045 w/ a sunon fan). I dont hardly notice mine, no heat problems whatsoever and i do overclock in addition.

Ehrm..and congratulations for your reliable system..in comparison to "us" AMD users with our unstable systems which crash every 30 seconds 🙂 🙂 🙂












 


<< I will say this though, Intel says that Mhz is an accurate measure of performance...let's test that theory out. Let's benchmark the following processors:

1.4Ghz Athlon vs. 1.4Ghz Willamette
1.53Ghz Athlon vs. 1.5Ghz Willamette
1.6Ghz Athlon vs. 1.6Ghz Northwood
1.7Ghz Athlon vs. 1.7Ghz Northwood >>


And that sir is the whole reasoning behind AMD's PR rating scheme. How else can AMD compete with Intel's marketing muscle and little blue aliens that fly UFO's and shoot asteroids?
rolleye.gif


A consumer walks in and sees a 1.7GHz AMD Athlon XP system (no PR rating) and a 2.0GHz Northwood system. They'd naturally gravitate to the Northwood system. I think that it was inevitable for AMD to resort to this method of naming their chips; how else can they compete with Intel's bottomless marketing resources? For those that don't like the scheme, what else would you have them do? Apparently (according to Anand), the new naming convention is working (and THAT is what has Intel worried).
 
Northwood has the edge over Athlon XP right now. Period. Admittedly, at stock speeds, when comparing the two processors, the XP is faster -- both in benchmarks and in real-world performance, although more so the former. However, with the awesome overclocking capabilities of current NWs, boards, and RAM ... there's no reason, IMHO, to even consider AMD right now.

The biggest drawback, besides the lousy core logic on most Socket-A boards (VIA, anyone?) is the lack of true, complete thermal monitoring and protection -- which Intel has featured for years. AMD continues to rely on third-party chipset manufacturers' and mainboard manufacturers' to implement "features" which ought to be on-die and independent of the mainboard. How many fried Northwoods do we see around here? 🙂 The other side, of course, is noise and cooling. The retail HS/F shipping with all boxed Intel P4A's right now is more than adequate for even extreme overclocks, and is practically silent. Who really enjoys the whine of those Delta's?

When I first migrated one of my speediest XP rigs to Northwood, I was prepared to be let down big-time -- especially since I'm a big gamer (not Q3A, mind you) and the XPs tend to do better nearly across-the-board. Boy was I wrong. I can honestly say my Northwood rigs are the speediest single processor boxes I've ever had the pleasure of using. I also encode audio/video on a regular basis and the Northwood flat out creams the XP, particularly in MPEG-2 encoding. And it is very, very nice to be able to conduct a normal telephone conversation while sitting by my PC. I couldn't do that with any of my AMD rigs.

I agree with AMD's "PR" rating system, and I see why they had to do it. I also think it has been very successful. Will it help them this year until Hammer can come on to the scene? Who knows.
 
I am a huge AMD fan, but I really am getting annoyed with them! Stop waitng for an Intel release to push your products! Go for the jugular and release those Tbreds. I know they need more fabs to really compete with Intel and also more advertising. How many people see those dumb p4 alien commericals every 5 seconds on TV ? I mean if I have to watch an Intel commerical every time I turn on the TV at least make the commericals good!

I am 100% sure that the Athlon Tbred will smoke any Northwood and operate much cooler!
 


<< Northwood has the edge over Athlon XP right now. Period. Admittedly, at stock speeds, when comparing the two processors, the XP is faster -- both in benchmarks and in real-world performance, although more so the former. However, with the awesome overclocking capabilities of current NWs, boards, and RAM ... there's no reason, IMHO, to even consider AMD right now.

The biggest drawback, besides the lousy core logic on most Socket-A boards (VIA, anyone?) is the lack of true, complete thermal monitoring and protection -- which Intel has featured for years. AMD continues to rely on third-party chipset manufacturers' and mainboard manufacturers' to implement "features" which ought to be on-die and independent of the mainboard. How many fried Northwoods do we see around here? 🙂 The other side, of course, is noise and cooling. The retail HS/F shipping with all boxed Intel P4A's right now is more than adequate for even extreme overclocks, and is practically silent. Who really enjoys the whine of those Delta's?

When I first migrated one of my speediest XP rigs to Northwood, I was prepared to be let down big-time -- especially since I'm a big gamer (not Q3A, mind you) and the XPs tend to do better nearly across-the-board. Boy was I wrong. I can honestly say my Northwood rigs are the speediest single processor boxes I've ever had the pleasure of using. I also encode audio/video on a regular basis and the Northwood flat out creams the XP, particularly in MPEG-2 encoding. And it is very, very nice to be able to conduct a normal telephone conversation while sitting by my PC. I couldn't do that with any of my AMD rigs.

I agree with AMD's "PR" rating system, and I see why they had to do it. I also think it has been very successful. Will it help them this year until Hammer can come on to the scene? Who knows. >>


I will agree with you Pabster. Right now, I'd choose a Northwood over any Athlon XP processor IF I HAD TO.

But the simple fact remains that my 1.4GHz Thunderbird + KT266A + 768MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM meets my needs (as a fast/stable/reliable platform) and most likely 99% of the peoples' needs on this forum. I have no real reason to waste my money by going to Northwood (for bragging rights of who can overclock the most) or Athlon XP for cheap thrills 😉

To me, my next upgrade isn't going to be about brain dead die shrinks and MHz jumps, I'm up for something architecturely superior (i.e., Hammer).





P.S. Pabster, I asked you in the VIA thread, but you chose to ignore it (hehe😉). What happened to all of those SiS745 boards that you said would be available by now?? The only ones out there are from MSI and ECS while everyone and their Grandma has a KT333 board out there😛 Just checking😀
 


<< P.S. Pabster, I asked you in the VIA thread, but you chose to ignore it (hehe😉). What happened to all of those SiS745 boards that you said would be available by now?? The only ones out there are from MSI and ECS while everyone and their Grandma has a KT333 board out there😛 Just checking😀 >>

Haha, not even MSI SiS 745 boards have hit the market yet.

In fact, ECS is the ONLY mainboard maker I know of that has released a SiS-powered Socket A mb.
 
NFS4 wrote:

"I will agree with you Pabster. Right now, I'd choose a Northwood over any Athlon XP processor IF I HAD TO."

I think anyone building a new rig would, given the current pricing 😀

"But the simple fact remains that my 1.4GHz Thunderbird + KT266A + 768MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM meets my needs (as a fast/stable/reliable platform) and most likely 99% of the peoples' needs on this forum. I have no real reason to waste my money by going to Northwood (for bragging rights of who can overclock the most) or Athlon XP for cheap thrills"

Oh, absolutely. Even a 1GHz Duron is more than enough CPU power for most people. The only reason I need more is because I'm a big gamer and I encode a lot of audio/video. And I'm also a geek who likes the latest and greatest, but that's entirely besides the point. 🙂

"To me, my next upgrade isn't going to be about brain dead die shrinks and MHz jumps, I'm up for something architecturely superior (i.e., Hammer)."

Definitely ... but Northwood is architecturally superior right now! 😀

"P.S. Pabster, I asked you in the VIA thread, but you chose to ignore it (hehe). What happened to all of those SiS745 boards that you said would be available by now?? The only ones out there are from MSI and ECS while everyone and their Grandma has a KT333 board out there Just checking"

I must have forgot to bookmark that one 🙂 I'm not sure about the lack of availability of 745-based boards. Perhaps VIA has interfered again? 😀 😛
 
That P4 PR rating is hilarious. But really, I consider the clock speeds on Intel chips to be far more misleading than the PR rating. Really, I think its massively misleading to the buying public. I agree that the Northwood is a better chip, but how many end consumers (people like my parents. aka techno illiterates) are going to even notice the little -A at the end of the name? Most people arent even configuring their systems. They go to BestBuy and find a system. They say "Wow! 1.5 GHZ! That's really fast! And it's only 700? That's a great deal! So what the pixels in the monitor are the size of my fingernail and it has no 3d card, and the hard drive is a loud, slow peice of crap? It's intel, and did I mention it's 1.5 GHZ? A cow on the box!!! That sweetens the deal too! what does pc133 mean? Whatever it does mean, it must be awesome!"
 
Saying the P4's higher clockspeeds is misleading is like saying an electrical socket tries to trick people. Knowledgable people know MHz != overal performance like knowledgable people just like knowledgable people know not to put their hands in an electrical socket. People who don't know buy the processor strictly based on the MHz and gets electricuted when they get curious. The MHz speed of the P4 is it's true clockspeed, and although MHz isn't everything, it's not misinforming people. People who don't know better think that that MHz means better performance just like people who don't know better think that an V8 car must be more powerful than a 6-cylinder car. Would you say the V8 car is misleading? It's a stupid mentality to get into.
While I do not like AMD's PR system because it is truely misinforming (it's suppose to reflect performance relative to an Athlon T-Bird, but that's not true at all since a T-bird 1.8 GHz would definitely perform better than an AthlonXP "1800+"), I do think it is neccessary as for AMD as a company. As a consumer, I'm pretty disgusted, both by Intel's practices towards AMD's model number system and by AMD's change in marketing method. While I still wasn't an AMD fanatic or anything I had always viewed the company as rather honest towards the consumer when they were preaching "MHz isn't everything", after the PR system was introduced, my opinion of AMD marketing division dropped like ballfire. I was also somewhat disturbed at the marketing of the P4 (despite what most mob mentality driven people think, the design was not for the pure purpose of pumping up MHz) and Intel's claims that MHz is true performance. That is the misleading part, not the MHz speed.
 
agodspeed:
If you are talking SiS 735, then ESC/PC-Chips are not the sole manufacturers of socket A boards (they are the dominant maker though) Leadtek and Jetway also have boards. As for SiS 745, I don't know.

About this Intel seminar: all I can say it is Intel up to their neck in filthy dirty tricks again. They are clearly incapable of fighting fairly - it's much easier to act like the school-yard bully apparently. Little wonder I can't stand them.

Greg
 


<< Knowledgable people know MHz != overal performance like knowledgable people just like knowledgable people know not to put their hands in an electrical socket. People who don't know buy the processor strictly based on the MHz and gets electricuted when they get curious. The MHz speed of the P4 is it's true clockspeed, and although MHz isn't everything, it's not misinforming people. People who don't know better think that that MHz means better performance just like people who don't know better think that an V8 car must be more powerful than a 6-cylinder car. Would you say the V8 car is misleading? It's a stupid mentality to get into. >>


Your average computer user has been raised on MHz from the dawn of computers. Now you get to the Pentium 4 vs Athlon XP and it isn't so cut in dry. Do I expect my 52 year old mother or 71 year old grandmother to know that the Athlon does more in one clock than the Pentium 4? Of course not. Do I expect my next door neighbor or people down the street to know? Of course not, and it's naive to think so. AMD did the ONLY thing that it could do short of releasing their own Pentium 4 clone.

As for your car reference, it doesn't compute here. Horsepower is horsepower in the auto industry. It is a verifiable and reliable method of comparing automobiles' power output. MHz to MHz comparisons with the Pentium 4 and Athlon is not the same.

Besides, horespower isn't everything in the American auto industry. Power plays second fiddle to many other features in vehicles. That's the reason why over 80% of cars sold in the US have automatic transmissions and why 70% of Toyota Camrys (best selling car in America 5 out of 6 years) comes with a 4-cylinder engine instead of the more powerful V6.
 


<< Your average computer has been raised on MHz from the dawn of computers. >>


Heck, even we're guilty of being raised on the MHz rating. Up until the P4, the best x86 processor had always been the one with the most MHz. It didn't matter if the IPC differed, or if the FPU wasn't pipelined(K6), the best processor was always the one with the most MHz(who remembers when AMD beat Intel to 1ghz?). We're not nessisarily smarter, we're only faster adapting.:Q
 
Getting out of hand


He brings up good points that people around here and other hardware sites have been saying for some time. We need a metric for guaging CPU's that goes beyond Mhz and IPC. Why don't some respectable HW review sites like Anandtech, Overclockers.com, Ace's Hardware etc. get together and try to come up with something that the industry can use to measure processor performance. It is after all, the review sites that publish benchmarks...hear my cries oh mighty Anand in the sky...😛



edit: I would also like to point out that this predicament we're in will likely only get worse with Hammer and Prescott so it's a reasonable plea.
 


<< Getting out of hand


He brings up good points that people around here and other hardware sites have been saying for some time. We need a metric for guaging CPU's that goes beyond Mhz and IPC. Why don't some respectable HW review sites like Anandtech, Overclockers.com, Ace's Hardware etc. get together and try to come up with something that the industry can use to measure processor performance. It is after all, the review sites that publish benchmarks...hear my cries oh mighty Anand in the sky...😛



edit: I would also like to point out that this predicament we're in will likely only get worse with Hammer and Prescott so it's a reasonable plea. >>


That is a very good read. Thanks for the link.

I found this this one this afternoon.
 
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