Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+0+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[maddie]

AMD didn't have the huge burden of keeping the fabs alive. That's why they survived, they became leaner and could survive. Intel has to change mentality, cut cruft and still have to pay billions upon billions for the fabs even if they just stay idle.

Are you forgetting the wafer agreements that sapped AMD for many years?

 

[ajsdkflsdjfio]

Anyone has a read on employee reactions. This will be telling.

Gelsingers Weggang von Intel: Ungüngstiger hätte der Zeitpunkt nicht sein können - Hardwareluxx

Gelsingers Weggang von Intel: Ungüngstiger hätte der Zeitpunkt nicht sein können.

www.hardwareluxx.de

https://twitter.com/x/status/1864007715959275557

https://twitter.com/x/status/1864003775822000628

https://x.com/IanCutress/status/1863995277675282773
https://x.com/IanCutress/status/1863677438368289177
I'm pretty sure the employee and general response is pretty against Pat's departure more so than any other Intel CEO in the recent past. Surely the board must have a good reason to remove him right before his foundry turnaround was starting to pay off.

 

[maddie]

I'm pretty sure the employee and general response is pretty against Pat's departure more so than any other Intel CEO in the recent past. Surely the board must have a good reason to remove him right before his foundry turnaround was starting to pay off.

Curiouser & curiouser. As Moorhead says, something changed.

 

[igor_kavinski]

something changed.

Someone on twitter is saying Pat refused to allow the design and fab split. If true, we should have news of that soon. Before the end of the year.

 

[SiliconFly]

.

 

[Thunder 57]

5 CEO's in 4 years. Intel is on track for that at least.

I think you won the Internet for at least a day. Hilarious!

 

[poke01]

There are laptops with strix starting at 950euros

Do these laptops come with HX370 or HX365?

 

[OneEng2]

You think N4P is cheap? It ain't cheap.

I think N4P is WAY cheaper than N3B. In what way is ARL less expensive than Zen 5?

Again, in a segment where performance drives profit, choosing to skimp on the node is penny wise, pound foolish. If you don't use the best node to give your product the best performance it can get, your competitors will and then your product won't sell which makes the penny pinching moot.

While this is true for some markets (like HPC, DC, AI compute, etc), it is not true for MOST consumer products. Consumers absolutely have a "good enough" point and are not willing to pay exponentially more for incrementally more performance.

Costs matter.
Ffs, Blackwell isn't even N3 anything lmao.

Agree. Costs ABSOLUTELY matter. Many people here look ONLY at the technology and what Intel/AMD/Others can achieve from a performance standpoint. The only thing that really matters (and Intel is learning this tough lesson the hard way) is if you can make money doing it.

If 18A doesn't deliver on schedule, Intel is finished.

Even if 18A is delivered on schedule, I have doubts that Intel's bottom line will be improving from it. Certainly not in 2025. IMO, Intel is fighting the wrong battle completely. They need to start figuring out how to make a profit .... or someone else will.

I'm sure 18A is far better than TSMC A16.

Wow. Really? Do you have links for this please?

It doesn’t matter, it’s a Pyrrhic victory.

Based on Intel 3 performance the odds are good that 18A is at parity with N3P, but if the supporting ecosystem isn’t competitive with what TSMC offers what is the point? Rationally speaking, why take such a gamble? If I’m running QCOM, AVGO or NVDA why would I gamble with 18A? The only solid rationale would be that 18A has a clear competitive advantage over N3P and even in that scenario I would hedge my bets.

It’s past the point where IFS can bail out Intel, money in 2027 and 2028 isn’t going to keep the lights on right now.

... and this is why I am not overly positive about Intel's FINANCIAL prospects even if 18A is a very technically successful process node for them. That equipment is God awful expensive as is each wafer production (due to many more passes needed for GAA, BSPD, and double patterning needed on the 3000 series ASML machines). I agree that Intel needs to get LOTS of external customers for their fab if they are to keep their existing model of business ...... I don't agree that Intel SHOULD keep their existing model .

 

[Hulk]

What do you think the work day is like for the guys and gals at TMSC doing the heavy lifting? It's like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory over there with the magic they seem to be able to do with sand.

 

[Saylick]

What do you think the work day is like for the guys and gals at TMSC doing the heavy lifting? It's like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory over there with the magic they seem to be able to do with sand.

I hear it’s long hours of grueling work just to eek out those yields, but working at TSMC is considered a prestigious role and a source of national pride so employees suck it up, even if the pay may not be as competitive as other professions.

 

[OneEng2]

What do you think the work day is like for the guys and gals at TMSC doing the heavy lifting? It's like Willy Wonka's chocolate factory over there with the magic they seem to be able to do with sand.

I hear it’s long hours of grueling work just to eek out those yields, but working at TSMC is considered a prestigious role and a source of national pride so employees suck it up, even if the pay may not be as competitive as other professions.

Indeed.

I have been reading that TSMC is having difficulty adapting to American work rules and ethics because of this.

 

[Saylick]

Indeed.

I have been reading that TSMC is having difficulty adapting to American work rules and ethics because of this.

It’s honestly why TSMC will remain dominant. I mean, only so much success in the foundry business can be created by spending money but after a certain point burning money doesn’t create breakthroughs or solves major engineering problems. Similarly, buying the most high tech equipment means nothing if you don’t have engineers with the know-how to get it working. While a Western fab technician works 40-45 hours and has a semblance of work-life balance, the same TSMC employee is probably willingly putting in 60+ hours per week because they know that if TSMC falters, Uncle Sam will have less reason to defend Taiwan.

 

[misuspita]

Do these laptops come with HX370 or HX365?

365 starts at 950€, 370 at 1050€ (Laptop ASUS Vivobook S16 3.2K OLED 120Hz AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 32GB LPDDR5X 1TB SSD AMD Radeon 890M) - copied from shop description

 

[poke01]

365 starts at 950€, 370 at 1050€ (Laptop ASUS Vivobook S16 3.2K OLED 120Hz AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 32GB LPDDR5X 1TB SSD AMD Radeon 890M) - copied from shop description

Good price for the HX 370 in Europe. In Australia it’s over $3KAUD for the same spec…

Edit: now it’s on sale for $2900. Hahaha, ASUS/AMD couldn’t sell shit at $3.5K

Asus Zenbook S 16 OLED UM5606 [UM5606WA-RJ055W] 16" 3K Ryzen 9 AI 32GB RAM 1TB Laptop - Zumaia Gray | Centre Com Computers

Discover the Asus Zenbook S 16 OLED UM5606 featuring a stunning 16" 3K display (2880 x 1800) with an ultra-fast 0.2ms response time. Powered by the AMD Ryzen™ 9 HX 370 Processor, it comes with 32GB LPDDR5X RAM and a 1TB M.2 NVMe™ PCIe® 4.0 SSD for seamless performance. Run Windows 11 Home with...

www.centrecom.com.au

 

[poke01]

Seriously the launch pricing for Strix laptops made MacBooks Pros look cheap especially in Australia.

You can 16” MBP for $3600 with an M4 Pro/24GB/512GB. No way AMD was going to sell HX 370 for $3500 in Australia.
16” MBP m4 Pro link

 

[poke01]

I hope Intel doesn’t price ARL-H crazy high but N3B is expensive.

 

[misuspita]

Are you forgetting the wafer agreements that sapped AMD for many years?

the best outcome from the settlement with Intel, was the fact they could make their CPUs everywhere, not the money received. The fact that they could move to TSMC while buying some older tech from Global Foudries was core to their success. While Intel still have to build fabs and R&D for process tech huge sums. AMD had something like a few (can't remember without searching, but 3-400ish) hundred millions to pay per year, Intel is multiple tens of billions

 

[poke01]

Ah I just noticed the one @misuspita posted is the vivobook SKU which is much cheaper, not the Zenbook SKU.

ASUS doesn’t sell the Vivobook SKU here.

 

[misuspita]

Good price for the HX 370 in Europe. In Australia it’s over $3KAUD for the same spec…

Edit: now it’s on sale for $2900. Hahaha, ASUS/AMD couldn’t sell shit at $3.5K

Asus Zenbook S 16 OLED UM5606 [UM5606WA-RJ055W] 16" 3K Ryzen 9 AI 32GB RAM 1TB Laptop - Zumaia Gray | Centre Com Computers

Discover the Asus Zenbook S 16 OLED UM5606 featuring a stunning 16" 3K display (2880 x 1800) with an ultra-fast 0.2ms response time. Powered by the AMD Ryzen™ 9 HX 370 Processor, it comes with 32GB LPDDR5X RAM and a 1TB M.2 NVMe™ PCIe® 4.0 SSD for seamless performance. Run Windows 11 Home with...

www.centrecom.com.au

Wow, really expensive.

https://www.cel.ro/laptop-asus-vivo...DwuNA-l/?aku=fb0f048f33cffffc6524799018216a0f

1€=5 lei

Edit: yeah, I posted the cheapest, the more expensive Zenbook is 1600€

 

[fastandfurious6]

HX 370 is still too expensive compared to Phoenix 7840hs

basically at around $1000:

HX 370 + igpu
VS
7840hs + 4060

the winner is clear

I expect HALO laptops will be around $2000 but that's worth it for the full 16core better than 9950x in some areas

 

[511]

Isn't this Intel thread. I don't want my dear form members to be scolded by mods 🙂

 

[gdansk]

Isn't this Intel thread. I don't want my dear form members to be scolded by mods 🙂

Lunar Lake pricing is less delusional.
Props to Intel on that.

 

[cannedlake240]

Lunar Lake pricing is less delusional.
Props to Intel on that.

Less versatile chip, margins must be quite low. They gotta bring PTL and retire LNL to it's premium low power niche asap

 

[511]

Less versatile chip, margins must be quite low. They gotta bring PTL and retire LNL to it's premium low power niche asap

The leader for PTL has been let go i hope they don't get back to the classic Intel Delays Schedule at least Pat forced launches on time

 

[cannedlake240]

The leader for PTL has been let go i hope they don't get back to the classic Intel Delays Schedule at least Pat forced launches on time

What leader?