Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Preliminary Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing ADL-N. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q2/Computex 2026. In case people don't remember AlderLake-N, I have created a table below to compare the detail specs of ADL-N and WCL. Just for fun, I am throwing LNL and upcoming Mediatek D9500 SoC.

		Intel Alder Lake - N	Intel Wildcat Lake	Intel Lunar Lake		Mediatek D9500
Launch Date		Q1-2023	Q2-2026 ?	Q3-2024		Q3-2025
Model		Intel N300	?	Core Ultra 7 268V		Dimensity 9500 5G
Dies		2	2	2		1
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		TSMC N3P
CPU		8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		C1 1+3+4
Threads		8	6	8		8
Max Clock		3.8 GHz	?	5 GHz
L3 Cache		6 MB	?	12 MB
TDP		7 W	Fanless ?	17 W		Fanless
Memory		64-bit LPDDR5-4800	64-bit LPDDR5-6800 ?	128-bit LPDDR5X-8533		64-bit LPDDR5X-10667
Size		16 GB	?	32 GB		24 GB ?
Bandwidth			~ 55 GB/s	136 GB/s		85.6 GB/s
GPU		UHD Graphics		Arc 140V		G1 Ultra
EU / Xe		32 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		12
Max Clock		1.25 GHz		2 GHz
NPU		NA	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		100 TOPS ?

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[Exist50]

Good spot.
It is quite surprising, that these schematics seem to represent a real product. Is this just laziness in Intel's patent department? Usually everyone plays the Hide & Seek game.

Yeah, it's pretty funny that they've just had that sitting in the open for who knows how long now. Presumably patent applications go through legal, but not marketing. Someone found a loophole, lol.

But ultimately, don't think it really matters. Intel's done a pretty poor job of keeping Meteor Lake secret. Too many MTL refugees floating around to keep things quiet, imo.

 

[Exist50]

Yep, exactly. This has been rumoured for a long time already. Up until now it wasn't that clear what kind of core this would be and how many of them. 2 Atom cores do sound like a good idea for heavy idle (AV, Cloud Sync, Background updates etc.)

I mentioned what I thought to be the config a while ago, but it's good to get real confirmation. https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...-rapids-thread.2509080/page-619#post-40743174

I think on paper, the idea is good. Will have to see how it works out in practice. They've added yet another layer of scheduling complexity, but hopefully they've had enough time to sort out the implications there with Microsoft.

 

[Geddagod]

Wait wait wait. So we are going to be seeing crestmont on Intel 4 AND TSMC 5nm? This is going to be fun
Only problem is idk if Intel is going to provide a die shot of the SOC tile, they are pretty good at providing die shots when asked though...
Also I really hope the crestmont on the soc tile will be the same as the one on the CPU tile design wise. Idk if Intel would want to put in the extra resources into changing core design for the SOC tile.

 

[mikk]

Around a year

We cannot rule out a launch in Q2 2024 right? Of course if they have to wait for ARL-S they might have to delay it.

 

[Henry swagger]

Wait wait wait. So we are going to be seeing crestmont on Intel 4 AND TSMC 5nm? This is going to be fun
Only problem is idk if Intel is going to provide a die shot of the SOC tile, they are pretty good at providing die shots when asked though...
Also I really hope the crestmont on the soc tile will be the same as the one on the CPU tile design wise. Idk if Intel would want to put in the extra resources into changing core design for the SOC tile.

This the first intel cpu ip on a tsmc node ?

 

[A///]

Early Platform Hardening Technology For Slimmer And Faster Boot Patent Application

U.S. Patent Application 20210081538 for Early Platform Hardening Technology For Slimmer And Faster Boot

uspto.report

Money quote:
"Next generation client SoC architectures may introduce large on-package caches, which will allow novel usages. Access time for the L4 (e.g., "Adamantine" or "ADM") cache may be much less than the DRAM access time"

that makes more sense than adamantium which is a term used in marvel comics and film. large difference between it and the correct term adamantine. i look forward to the performance if it comes to client systems.

 

[A///]

Too many MTL refugees floating around to keep things quiet, imo.

??????????????????

 

[Henry swagger]

Intel Reportedly Begins Emerald Rapids & Meteor Lake-S Desktop CPU Sampling, 5th Gen Xeon Pictured

Intel has reportedly started sampling its 5th Gen Emerald Rapids and Meteor Lake-S Desktop CPUs as revealed in a recent document.

wccftech.com

Meteor lake is coming on desktop 😏

 

[AMDK11]

Maybe Meteorlake-S will actually be such a big positive surprise that Intel is so careful about the details. At worst, it will be bad or so-so.

RaptorLake refreshed may be a nod to LGA1700 as Meteorlake-S will be on LGA1851.

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

They've added yet another layer of scheduling complexity, but hopefully they've had enough time to sort out the implications there with Microsoft.

Yep, my line of thinking as well.
They will need a pretty big treshold in order to not switch over to the compute tile too soon and much. But also not too high in order to stay snappy.

 

[Exist50]

that makes more sense than adamantium which is a term used in marvel comics and film. large difference between it and the correct term adamantine.

They're the same root. I've heard both used.

??????????????????

Intel's lost many employees since Meteor Lake started. They're everywhere now, and some are willing to talk about little details with their new coworkers.

 

[Exist50]

Wait wait wait. So we are going to be seeing crestmont on Intel 4 AND TSMC 5nm? This is going to be fun

Intel 4 vs TSMC N6, and as I mentioned in that old post, there are other considerations that will invalidate a true 1:1 comparison. Doubt that will stop anyone, however.

 

[nicalandia]

Intel Reportedly Begins Emerald Rapids & Meteor Lake-S Desktop CPU Sampling, 5th Gen Xeon Pictured

Intel has reportedly started sampling its 5th Gen Emerald Rapids and Meteor Lake-S Desktop CPUs as revealed in a recent document.

wccftech.com

Meteor lake is coming on desktop 😏

As a Rebranded Raptor Cove core SKUs...

 

[Exist50]

As a Rebranded Raptor Cove core SKUs...

No, as actual Meteor Lake.

 

[AMDK11]

Is it a combination of RaptorCove + Crestmont cores?

 

[nicalandia]

Is it a combination of RaptorCove + Crestmont cores?

No, just your average Raptor Cove/RaptorMont Combination, just rebranded like 90% of Raptor Lake SKUs that while coded as Raptor Lake were fitted with Golden Cove cores

 

[AMDK11]

I doubt Raptor Lake was renamed Meteor Lake. RaptorLake, although using x86 GoldenCove, is mainly a L2 change from 1.25MB in GoldenCove to 2MB in RaptorCove.

What would Meteorlake be if it actually uses RaptorLake?

 

[nicalandia]

I doubt Raptor Lake was renamed Meteor Lake. RaptorLake, although using x86 GoldenCove, is mainly a L2 change from 1.25MB in GoldenCove to 2MB in RaptorCove.

What would Meteorlake be if it actually uses RaptorLake?

Not just the L2 on the P cores, but the e cores are also OG Gracemont with only 2 MiB shared L2$.

The rebranded SKU will have 2 MiB L2$ on P cores and 4 MiB of shared L2$ per Cluster.

 

[AMDK11]

Yes. I didn't write that Gracemont in Raptorlake got 4MB L2 on a 4 core cluster with 2MB in AlderLake.

Still, I doubt Meteorlake-S is a renamed RaptorLake.

Anyway, you'll find out in a while that the Meteorlake-S sample is RedwoodCove+Crestmont

Edit:
RedwoodCove is not the same as Golden/RaptorCove though I don't know to what extent it has been redesigned.

 

[Exist50]

Not just the L2 on the P cores, but the e cores are also OG Gracemont with only 2 MiB shared L2$.

The rebranded SKU will have 2 MiB L2$ on P cores and 4 MiB of shared L2$ per Cluster.

nicalandia, not a single source has claimed that Raptor Lake will be rebranded as desktop Meteor Lake.

 

[nicalandia]

nicalandia, not a single source has claimed that Raptor Lake will be rebranded as desktop Meteor Lake.

Its pretty much a given that MTL-S is 14th gen are going to be Raptor Lake Refresh and only the Mobile MTL will be based on Lion Cove cores

 

[ondma]

Intel Reportedly Begins Emerald Rapids & Meteor Lake-S Desktop CPU Sampling, 5th Gen Xeon Pictured

Intel has reportedly started sampling its 5th Gen Emerald Rapids and Meteor Lake-S Desktop CPUs as revealed in a recent document.

wccftech.com

Meteor lake is coming on desktop 😏

Well, that is WCCF Tech though. Take it with some skepticism. Will be interesting to see how RL Refresh, ML and AL shake out on desktop, if they all are produced.

 

[AMDK11]

Its pretty much a given that MTL-S is 14th gen are going to be Raptor Lake Refresh and only the Mobile MTL will be based on Lion Cove cores

There are no LionCove cores in Meteorlake! Meteorlake are x86 RedwoodCove cores.

LionCove is supposed to be in ArrowLake!

If I don't know something, enlighten me.

 

[Exist50]

Its pretty much a given that MTL-S is 14th gen are going to be Raptor Lake Refresh and only the Mobile MTL will be based on Lion Cove cores

No, the claim is that 14th gen desktop will be Raptor Lake refresh, but that MTL-S will also exist, and arrive alongside Arrow Lake, likely on the low end.

 

[nicalandia]

No, the claim is that 14th gen desktop will be Raptor Lake refresh, but that MTL-S will also exist, and arrive alongside Arrow Lake, likely on the low end.

I was out of that loop...