Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Thanks for the correction but there's nothing on the site that indicates it was from 2 weeks ago. They do give credit to pcforalla but they date it as today on the English version.

Not just because It was translated and posted today?

 

[adroc_thurston]

LNC has been in development for a very long time. Nothing much is known about the actual architecture.

It's very much known that it's more bloat lmao.

 

[Hitman928]

Not just because It was translated and posted today?

The only things on PCWorld are these 2 things:

 

[Hulk]

Couple weeks after the MTL "release" and I have no clear understanding of its performance.

 

[H433x0n]

Zen 5
• Major architecture upgrade
• Minor node upgrade (N5P -> N4P)

Arrow Lake
• Major architecture upgrade (Lion Cove/Royal Core)
• Major node upgrade (Intel 7 -> 4 -> 20A)

Arrow Lake is getting 2 Major node jumps from Intel 7 (RPL) to Intel 20A- with GAAFETs and PowerVia to boot.

I was thinking Arrow Lake might beat Zen 5's performance but lose out on efficiency. But then the realisation that Arrow Lake is getting a jump of 2 Major nodes, completely changed my perspective. Now I am thinking Arrow Lake has the potential to not just match Zen 5 in performance/efficiency, but also beat it in those aspects.

According to some leaks documenting PL2 & PL4 it’s going to top out at a measly 170W or so. I don’t think efficiency will be as much of an issue but rather clock speeds and raw performance. I’d be much more optimistic if the PL2 was >=200W.

 

[mikk]

Thanks for the correction but there's nothing on the site that indicates it was from 2 weeks ago. They do give credit to pcforalla but they date it as today on the English version.

There is:

This review was translated from Swedish to English and originally appeared on pcforalla.se.

It's a copy from the swedish site translated into English. They got this sample from Asus, there is nothing about a retail unit.

 

[jpiniero]

It's a copy from the swedish site translated into English. They got this sample from Asus, there is nothing about a retail unit.

Given that you can buy the Zenbook, it's probally close enough.

 

[mikk]

Given that you can buy the Zenbook, it's probally close enough.

If it's on the same bios and memory speed why not.

 

[Khato]

Here's a youtube review of a retail Asus UX3405, apparently with all latest updates. Can't really draw any conclusions from the performance benchmarks as I didn't see any definitive statement regarding power levels? But the battery life results are certainly encouraging.

 

[Markfw]

Here's a youtube review of a retail Asus UX3405, apparently with all latest updates. Can't really draw any conclusions from the performance benchmarks as I didn't see any definitive statement regarding power levels? But the battery life results are certainly encouraging.

Question to all here. Is it not confusing to have an Intel CPU product called a Zenbook ?

 

[jpiniero]

Question to all here. Is it not confusing to have an Intel CPU product called a Zenbook ?

The brand does predate AMD's release. Here's a review of a Zenbook from 2016:

Asus ZenBook UX360UA Convertible Review

In-depth review of the Asus Zenbook UX360UA-C4159T (Intel Core i7 6500U, Intel HD Graphics 520, 13.3 inch) with numerous measurements, benchmarks, and ratings

www.notebookcheck.net

 

[Markfw]

The brand does predate AMD's release. Here's a review of a Zenbook from 2016:

Asus ZenBook UX360UA Convertible Review

In-depth review of the Asus Zenbook UX360UA-C4159T (Intel Core i7 6500U, Intel HD Graphics 520, 13.3 inch) with numerous measurements, benchmarks, and ratings

www.notebookcheck.net

Thanks, makes perfect sense.

 

[Hitman928]

There is:

This review was translated from Swedish to English and originally appeared on pcforalla.se.

It's a copy from the swedish site translated into English. They got this sample from Asus, there is nothing about a retail unit.

See my post above, there was nothing on the PCWorld article that the initial review was 2 weeks ago, it is only dated as today. They don’t specifically mention it was a retail unit but they don’t say they received a pre production sample either.

 

[Hitman928]

Here's a youtube review of a retail Asus UX3405, apparently with all latest updates. Can't really draw any conclusions from the performance benchmarks as I didn't see any definitive statement regarding power levels? But the battery life results are certainly encouraging.

Based upon their CB scores and sustained power draw, it appears to fall in line with the initial reviews and doesn’t show the improved perf/w from the golden pig update test. Hard to say for sure though given the lack of detailed info. Battery life looks quite good but that introduces even more variables.

Edit: Reviewer says he updated to the latest bios in the comments.

 

[Khato]

Based upon their CB scores and sustained power draw, it appears to fall in line with the initial reviews and doesn’t show the improved perf/w from the golden pig update test. Hard to say for sure though given the lack of detailed info. Battery life looks quite good but that introduces even more variables.

Edit: Reviewer says he updated to the latest bios in the comments.

Well, what was the sustained power draw? I know there's one slide around 12:18 that says 26W for 'Initial Workload' and 53W for 'Sustained Workload'... but that seems backwards? Some of the entries have the initial power draw higher than sustained as expected, while others have sustained higher than initial.

 

[Hitman928]

Well, what was the sustained power draw? I know there's one slide around 12:18 that says 26W for 'Initial Workload' and 53W for 'Sustained Workload'... but that seems backwards? Some of the entries have the initial power draw higher than sustained as expected, while others have sustained higher than initial.

I believe the initial workload is something lightly threaded and probably not very computer heavy and sustained is Cinebench or something similar. But like I said, it’s hard to say for sure with the lack of detailed info.

 

[Goop_reformed]

So is MTL good now after all the shenanigans ?

 

[Hulk]

Are there any reviews that isolate the Crestmont cores and compare them to Gracemont? Unlike Alder and Raptor Meteor can obviously run without P cores so perhaps it is possible to shut down all P cores in a "tweakable" bios?

 

[SiliconFly]

I am kinda worried about It being in development for a very long time. In most cases that doesn't end in a very good product.

Initial development was overseen by Jim Keller himself, although rumors said he wasn't involved in everyday affairs. So, there's still hope.

 

[SiliconFly]

It's very much known that it's more bloat lmao.

Tell us what you know about the architecture since Intel themselves haven't shared anything and are keeping it a closely guarded secret.

 

[Timorous]

Tell us what you know about the architecture since Intel themselves haven't shared anything and are keeping it a closely guarded secret.

Intel have been spinning wheels since Skylake.

Too many massages of that arch then the failure that was rocket lake. Alder lake was a genuine step but is very power hungry. RPL and RPL-R are more of the same. MTL is not at all a performance step forward and there is zero chance that was by design.

What in the last 10 or so years makes you believe Intel are sitting on a home run? If they were I think they would be shouting about it to try and stem the losses in DC, to me their silence is deafening.

 

[H433x0n]

Intel have been spinning wheels since Skylake.

Too many massages of that arch then the failure that was rocket lake. Alder lake was a genuine step but is very power hungry. RPL and RPL-R are more of the same. MTL is not at all a performance step forward and there is zero chance that was by design.

What in the last 10 or so years makes you believe Intel are sitting on a home run? If they were I think they would be shouting about it to try and stem the losses in DC, to me their silence is deafening.

Is AMD’s silence on Zen 5 deafening? I don’t even recall AMD making a ton of proclamations about Zen 1 pre official release. You’re reading into this what you want to fit a narrative. The last thing Intel needs to do is hype something up, their best bet is to follow what they did with EMR.

 

[SiliconFly]

Intel have been spinning wheels since Skylake.

Too many massages of that arch then the failure that was rocket lake. Alder lake was a genuine step but is very power hungry. RPL and RPL-R are more of the same. MTL is not at all a performance step forward and there is zero chance that was by design.

What in the last 10 or so years makes you believe Intel are sitting on a home run? If they were I think they would be shouting about it to try and stem the losses in DC, to me their silence is deafening.

I don't think ARL is about performance. I have a feeling it'll be more like MTL in performance. But I think it's gonna be very efficient.

 

[adroc_thurston]

So it MTL good now after all the shenanigans ?

it's mid.
Also kinda firmware issues galore?
For some reason.

Is AMD’s silence on Zen 5 deafening

They're not silent at all.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Arrow lake 20A is supposed to be a short lived process. A test bed process for the follow up 18A (Panther Lake) which Intel is putting all their hopes and dreams in. Intel says 18A is when they will gain a process advantage over TSMC and their forthcoming 2NM technology. Energy efficiency has long been a problem for Intel and these new processes are supposed to fix this. I guess we will have to wait and see what Intel can do.